non (or less) neurotoxic stimulant research chemicals

[Rogue_Alchemist]

I am glad posts like these are allowed to stay open. Somebody could make an argument for it being a 'what drug should I take' post, but regardless there is a lot of potential for education and harm reduction when you can say "Hey, none of these drugs are really safe, but for your purposes these choices may be marginally safer than those choices".

If somebody was basically asking what to take, closing the thread could result in a more careless or less informed decision, rather than encouraging them in any meaningful way not to experiment with untested drugs.



I understand that there is a lot of concern over 4FA because of the neurotoxic effects (in animals) of 4CA. Allegedly, it does not appear to be as neurotoxic based on very limited research.

I also think people get too hung up on serotonin, as if serotonin + dopamine release is the one and only way that neurotoxicity exists. Nevermind that fluoride ions would themselves be more neurotoxic than the drug itself if they were freed. It appears to be a strong bond however and most metabolites probably wont give off fluoride ions. It would suck if they did.

Even with serotonin, a lot of toxic effects occur at the point of serotonin depletion. Its also thought to be the uptake of 'other' chemicals via the serotonic reuptake sites rather than just because serotonin was released at all.....Basically, its a little dumbed down and simplistic to point at a drug because it has some serotonin and dopamine activity and conclude 'oh, looks neurotoxic'. We dont even know that dopamine is what causes the damage. MDMA is one of the more studied drugs and in the case of MDMA it could be formaldehyde that is toxic.


One of the best ways to actually know if a drug is neurotoxic is to do studies then actually collect evidence of neurotoxicity with that specific drug. Until you do the research, its just an educated guess.


Likewise, dont assume a drug is perfectly benign just because you hear its not both a potent serotonin and dopamine releaser. For all we know it could end up causing more damage than any of the known neurtoxic drugs.

 

[Dopa-Amine]

^ I may have missed something but I don't think anyone said the ethyl- is more desirable than the methyl- , just that hopefully the desirable effects from methylphenidate will transfer to ethylphenidate. I don't know about elsewhere, but in the UK methylphenidate is prescription-only (and only prescribed to kids with ADHD) where as ethylphenidate is not (and is not a banned substance) so therefore could be purchased legally alongside other "RCs" - so I guess you could say it is more desirable for that reason

(note - no discussion of vendors please, am just making a general point about the status of both the drugs here in the UK)

Would not ethylphenidate be similar to dexmethylphenidate (focalin) then? I have read that the latter has a higher affinity for DA than NE hence less PNS side effects.

I cannot tolerate methylphenidate despite I have ADHD and I can feel the therapeutic benefit. The vasoconstriction is unreal as is the crash, and I take it at therapeutic doses. Dexmethylphenidate is not available in my country so I may look into ethylphenidate if it shares the same lower PNS side effects.

 

[Pjkt2501]

I am glad posts like these are allowed to stay open. Somebody could make an argument for it being a 'what drug should I take' post...

It all depends the aspect upon which a topic is approached. This topic is clearly of benefit for several reasons.

What I'm taking from this - switching methylphendate in and speeding around on my opiate-downtime will recover my receptors faster. (This is probably wrong, but you see the difference between that and "ooh, ethylphenidate will get me high!")

 

[effie]

Would not ethylphenidate be similar to dexmethylphenidate (focalin) then? I have read that the latter has a higher affinity for DA than NE hence less PNS side effects.

I cannot tolerate methylphenidate despite I have ADHD and I can feel the therapeutic benefit. The vasoconstriction is unreal as is the crash, and I take it at therapeutic doses. Dexmethylphenidate is not available in my country so I may look into ethylphenidate if it shares the same lower PNS side effects.

Yeah, I think that's right I'm not too sure about the binding profile of dextromethylphenidate compared to levomethylphenidate, but ethylphenidate does have significantly more selectivity for dopamine over norepinephrine, and this should mean fewer peripheral side effects. I've not noticed vasoconstriction being an issue with ethylphenidate, but this is just anecdotal of course..