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Nobody has freewill.

KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
Nobody has free will. People say it exists because they can't stand the thought of them not being in control of their self. They have no more control than that of a rock, tree, bird or insect. Everything ever done had to be done. Nothing else could've happened. Nobody could've done anything other than what they did.
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I think you are conflating determinism with pre-destination. Determinism means that we can't really make a free choice because some variable is controlling our choices and actions. Pre-destination means that one outcome was always going to take place and no other outcome was possible ("it was meant to be"). They are two different considerations.

As to free will... I think it's a false dichotomy. Free will and determinism co-exist. We live in a natural system governed by various hierarchies of laws and structures. However, humans do have free will in one key aspect. We have the free will to decide meaning.

I think the natural systems... our bodies, our emotions, our motivations and desires, our choices, our avoidances, our binary interactions with the world (do vs not do), the web of consequences foisted upon us by endless external variables... most of that is outside of our control. The concept of free will is somewhat comforting because it compensates for the sheer overwhelm of all the natural forces that act upon us daily, that are too burdensome or complex for us to consider.

But we do have control over the meaning we choose to apply to our circumstances. Victor Frankl talks about this in great detail in "Man's Search for Meaning". If we are living in some kind of simulacrum, then meaning is our only freedom.

From another perspective, freedom is not necessarily contingent upon external circumstances. Can a person in solitary confinement experience freedom? A Buddhist and a Daoist would say yes. We are always free... freedom is our true, natural state, our "Buddha nature." Mind and ego are what create the illusion of imprisonment, but True Nature is free and untouched by the temporal, impermanent drama. Although our circumstances materially bind us, remove our choices, control us and limit our will to act, it does not mean we are not free at our core.

An example that recently came up for me was when I watched V for Vendetta with a friend. This scene:


Valerie talks about a small, fragile, precious thing that nobody can take from her, despite having lost everything. This is where freedom is.
 
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nznity said:
For life is like a movie, we are just spectators and there's only one way things could've been. How it is now is the only possibility, if we thought things could've been different...that's wrong. It's just an illusion, the only thing that is real is NOW.
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Now equals that this world is the best of all possible worlds, given our history.

Right?

Regards
DL
 
ovenbakedskittles said:
Freedom is only dangerous as a result of us being unconscious. If we were to collectively raise our consciousness and expand our awareness we would naturally be more inclined to do the more ethical thing and have a better idea of what is the best possible solution for any given scenario or problem. But in todays society, people are generally unaware of themselves and are divided within themselves. And that leads to low consciousness and confusion and suffering and causing pain upon others and not being able to implement one’s will and express ones true authentic nature.

We need to collectively promote that people have the power to heal themselves through their thoughts and intention and their beliefs about themselves and about the world in general. The atheists will have a harder time accepting this. However we can no longer rely on 3 dimensional solutions as they have failed us many times and creates very slow and artificial progress for humanity. Or in other words, at times, it can seem as though we are making progress and that these physical solutions are helping us but in reality, we are being fooled by an illusion of pretense and artificial moral standards.

We need to collectively advocate for authentic living and free expression of emotion without judgement. People who are psychotic are just people with traumas and repressed emotions from childhood. The priority must be to find a way to help them not feel alienated or more alone and helpless than they already feel. That is what mental hospitals do is put them in environments which completely go against their healing process and perpetuates it instead. The hospitals create such an environment that makes them feel more shame and hopelessness about their situation instead of empowering them and enlightening them. It makes no sense and it is a giant fault of man and man will suffer the consequences if he does not see the mental patient as just an equal human being who has had certain experiences. As a society we have to collectively find methods to resolve those traumas that is causing these major issues in their mind and we have to have more understanding and compassion towards their situation and try to look at things through their perspective without judgement and criticism. We have to see them as equal and we need to accommodate their reality and provide safety and security and connection for them. Restraining them in places like these is more so for our safety and security because we are a selfish and hopeless species. That would be an example of pretense and artificial progress as I was saying in my last paragraph. They have convinced themselves that they are doing the right thing by placing them in these hospitals but they don’t really care about healing them they just want to manage and control them like animals. No different than what the governments do on larger scales.

We would have to put aside our judgements and fears towards them and look at them through the lens of objectivity which is to say without placing the label of “crazy” or “dangerous” or “schizophrenic” on them. These are just words that reflect our limited understanding of them from our outside perspective and it actually does more damage than good. We need to see them more as people who have just had certain experiences in their lives that caused them to suppress themselves and not let their true selves out. And we need to have a collective attitude of compassion and maturity towards their situation instead of demonizing and punishing them.

But the most important thing that we as a society need to do in order to resolve these issues is to realize that we are god and we have power to change our circumstances and to heal ourselves. We have the ability to control our reality and once we realize that and apply it, we cannot be affected by 3 dimensional matter because we become the lord over it.
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Lots of decent advise but you did not deal with my point of having to lock up dangerous people.

What you want is to change the views of the whole world, as we all do, but have no viable suggestions other than educate and elevate everyone.

You are right that we are Gods, that is my Gnostic Christian view, but few want to step up.

Regards
DL
 
jasperkent said:
I don't think we can know whether we have free will or not.
I'd like to think I have at least some free will, but how can I know for sure that I haven't been preset to think that?
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Take my test that proved to you that you have a free will.

Al, you need do to prove you have a free will is to give it up to my will.

Reply to my post by starting your post with the letter "I", as I want.

This, if you do as bid, will prove you made the choice.

Regards
DL
 
KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
Well I say you have no freewill. I say nobody does. So is that me exercising my freewill? By saying that.... Could I have said otherwise? Do I have freewill and did I use my freewill to say that I don't have freewill?
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See my last and take the test.

Regards
DL
 
KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
The bottom line is that we can't change the future any more so than we can change the past. Nobody can dispute that. That is provable.... LOL
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Changing the future ???

Who knows what they would be changing?

I did not speak of that. I spoke to the fact that you have a limited free will.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Lots of decent advise but you did not deal with my point of having to lock up dangerous people.

What you want is to change the views of the whole world, as we all do, but have no viable suggestions other than educate and elevate everyone.

You are right that we are Gods, that is my Gnostic Christian view, but few want to step up.

Regards
DL
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The only solution is consciousness and vibration raising and getting people to recognize their free will and soul power. I’m not exactly sure what kind of solution you were expecting. It seems you are seeking a more practical approach that resonates more so with the physical reality rather than the spiritual, mental and emotional reality where true healing occurs.

We have exhausted the physical solutions for things and they have provided no real genuine healing for society AT ALL. Like zero. They have done nothing to actually heal them and take their illness seriously but rather they put them on drugs and call them crazy and put them in mental hospitals so that they can suffer even more.

All of this is a result of lack of consciousness and lack of free will and lack of knowledge and awareness of self. The doctors and psychologists are unaware of themselves and they operate under the deterministic standards and regulations and methodologies of the science establishments. They have no will and only follow standards and social pressures and pretenses and artificial moral standards.

Once they are able to become aware of themselves and have Christ consciousness flowing through them, they will automatically know what the best solution is. And they will be able to understand them better and have compassion for them. That will alleviate the fear that surrounds them and fear is the ultimate barrier to enlightenment and awareness.

Sadly, the reality is that if a mental patient is not aware of his or her own free will, there’s not really much you can do to help them in any practical way because they have decided they do not want to be helped. Even though it’s subconscious it is still their choice. That is why we are in the situation where we feel like our only option is to restrain them because the doctors themselves are also unaware of their free will and cannot think of more extensive solutions. That is why I say the most important thing is to advocate the idea that we have control over our realities. It is the only true nature of existence. We were meant to be whole. We were meant to be healthy and to fulfill our life purpose. And if we empower people to realize that they actually do have will and they can do much more things than they think they could, it will generate healing at a rate you never thought possible. Instantaneous in some cases. We are supposed to be a light to the rest of the world as it says in your gnostic ideology I believe. And that light will inspire those who are also unaware. That is the only solution. We have done too much damage for it to be fixed by just physical means. I guess a better solution to the so called “lock up” problem is that we need to just put them in different environments and create more facilities so that they are not all crammed together because that causes problems too and perpetuates their symptoms. I hope that’s what you were asking.

All of these things that people say like “what else are we supposed to do?” “There’s no other solution. They’re just broken.” … that is just negative thinking and not wanting to take control of your reality. Those are the people that subconsciously want our world to die and they want to die as well. You may not think that a doctor or psychologist is suicidal but I can assure you that there are many people who deny their own feelings and thoughts to the point where they cannot even see them and they pretend that those thoughts and feelings aren’t them.
 
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Gnostic Bishop said:
Changing the future ???

Who knows what they would be changing?

I did not speak of that. I spoke to the fact that you have a limited free will.

Regards
DL
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The term freewill itself is an oxymoron. We can't do anything we want without restraint. We must follow the laws of the universe ( gravity, physics, etc..) Freewill never existed, doesn't exist now, and will never exist. We are experiencing an experience but we cannot choose what we experience. We must experience it. We can only do what we do. We can't choose to do what we do, we must do what we do. The universe had to occur exactly how it did since the beginning of the universe and will occur exactly how it will until the end of the universe.
 
Well I think the "feeling" of freewill IS true and real.. might as well be good enough for me..
 
Brendan12 said:
Well I think the "feeling" of freewill IS true and real.. might as well be good enough for me..
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But I do believe the belief in it is harmful to our evolution. We can ascend if we realize what the universe really is, a simulated computation. We are mere perceivers.
 
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KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
The term freewill itself is an oxymoron. We can't do anything we want without restraint. We must follow the laws of the universe ( gravity, physics, etc..) Freewill never existed, doesn't exist now, and will never exist. We are experiencing an experience but we cannot choose what we experience. We must experience it. We can only do what we do. We can't choose to do what we do, we must do what we do. The universe had to occur exactly how it did since the beginning of the universe and will occur exactly how it will until the end of the universe.
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Whose will decided to post what is quoted?

Was it a free choice or a forced choice?

If forced or controlled from another source, can you name it?

If your will, it was free. Right?

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Whose will decided to post what is quoted?

Was it a free choice or a forced choice?

If forced or controlled from another source, can you name it?

If your will, it was free. Right?

Regards
DL
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It was not a choice. Anything anybody ever did, they had to do. They could not have chosen to do otherwise.
 
KOSMICTRAVELLER said:
It was not a choice. Anything anybody ever did, they had to do. They could not have chosen to do otherwise.
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Intelligible, but unintelligent garbage, and demonstrably untrue.

Your not worth my time though.

From what you say, I had no choice but to see your garbage as garbage, so no complaining now.

Regards
DL
 
Foreigner said:
How do you know this with certainty?
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I don't know how I know it, I just do. I would say deductive reasoning. I thought about it for about 10 years and it seems to be the only logical explanation. Well I guess in a sense I couldn't actually know it, just what I assume.
 
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So the feeling of being free.. aka having many options and choices is bad for evolution?

That is quite the contrary.. having or being free enough to be able to make the best possible choices is specifically what evolution is. We adapt to our surroundings in the best way possible..
 
Brendan12 said:
So the feeling of being free.. aka having many options and choices is bad for evolution?

That is quite the contrary.. having or being free enough to be able to make the best possible choices is specifically what evolution is. We adapt to our surroundings in the best way possible..
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Not figuring out reality/the truth of the universe i.e. what is really going on is bad for evolution.

We adapt to our surroundings the only way we know how.
 
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