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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

No Pma In Red Mistubishi 2nd Death

Alexkid to what u said below i aM SURE i am able to write what i like on my thread..u still came in to give yuor two cents worth


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No Pma In Red Mistubishi 2nd Death
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..it should read; "LINKED 2nd Death."
 
^Phase Dancer - how much caffeine to impact significantly on OD risk of MDMA? More than a strong latte's worth I imagine...

Similarly, what's the take home (or out ;) ) message? Maybe we should be distributing info on how to recognise early signs & symptoms of heart attack, so people know what to do if they experience them.

And to be realistic, given that people don't always ring the ambos, what impact would, say, dropping a couple of Valiums be on a potential MDMA OD?
 
^Phase Dancer - how much caffeine to impact significantly on OD risk of MDMA? More than a strong latte's worth I imagine...

I'm not sure such research has been done, and if it had, whether it would realistically be able to account for personal variables. If you suffer heart or blood pressure problems, MDMA is not a good idea, even when taken on it's own.

There has been the odd thing done on caffeine and MDMA. This relevant except discusses the potentiation of MDMA inhibitory actions by caffeine.

MDMA (ecstasy) effects on cultured serotonergic neurons: evidence for Ca2+-dependent toxicity linked to release by E. C. Azmitiaa, , R. B. Murphyb and P. M. Whitaker-Azmitiac

....Since increases in Ca2+ intracellular levels have been shown to be a key step in neuronal death, the interaction between MDMA and caffeine (stimulates release of Ca2+ from intracellular stores) and nimodipine (a Ca2+ channel blocker) were studied. The results showed that caffeine (10-6 M) potentiated and nimodipine (10-9 M) attenuated the inhibitory effects of MDMA. Our results are consistent with both types of 5-HT release being involved in producing a Ca2+-dependent toxicity induced by MDMA on cultured serotonergic fetal neurons.

Perhaps a "take home message" is to know your body and any potential weaknesses, and carefully assess any considered drug use before popping.

I'll leave your other question to a BL dr.
 
Caffeine has certainly been involved in overdoses, but ususally massive ones of several grams. For those of you who are really interested...

Instant coffee 60-100 mg per cup
(The amount of caffeine depends on how much you put in the cup)

Fresh coffee 80-350 mg per cup
The amount of caffeine depends on:
the type of beans ('Robusta' contains more caffeine than 'Arabica')
the way the coffee is made
how strong the brew is

Decaffeinated coffee 2 - 4 mg per cup
The amount of caffeine is usually marked on the packet

Tea 8 - 90 mg per cup
Caffeine content depends on how strong the brew is

Cola drinks 35 mg per 250ml serve

Cocoa and hot chocolate 10 - 70 mg per cup

Chocolate bars 20 - 60 mg per 200 g bar

Some prescription and over-the-counter medications 20 - 100 mg per dose Some medicines (cough, headache and slimming products) contain caffeine

Any amphetamine like substance makes the myocardium (heart muscle) more irritable, which would be exacerbated by a very large dose of caffeine. I am not aware of any recreational drugs containing caffeine at these sorts of levels. My guess would be that this poor chap had some sort of undiagnosed vulnerability to stimulants, maybe some metabolic disorder or cardiac illness, which tipped him over the edge. Which serves to remind Bluelighters that it isn't just the pill you have to worry about- Mother Nature may already have it in for you...
:| :| :|
 
Well Im fairly sure Ive got a healthy enough heart and Ive had some prtty full on disturbingly rapid heartbeats from caffeine alone (and of course mdma alone)...

After 2 all nighters in a row trying to finish a research essay and about 15 litres of vanilla coke I started getting some fairly serious heart pangs and realised my heart beat was about as fast as it should be after some rigorous jogging (I'd barely moved in 24 hours)...DEFINITELY not to be underestimated! Caffeine is a drug and should be treated as such. If you take a high dose of caffeine, then take a pill, you are mixing drugs and should approach it with the caution you would when mixing with any other stimulant.

Most unfortunate for this poor chappy though 8o
 
What about the thosuands of people that smoke meth then drop pills every weekend? You never hear of any of them dieing. Im starting to think caffine/mdma is a mare dangourous combo?
 
mongman said:
alexkid: have you had pills fad and expand etc with time, I have never seen that happen, even with 3-4 year old pills.


ive seen a few pills in the last year, that even after being well preserved will lose a lot of their colour in a month.

didn't the 3's expand? i forget why but they _were_ from another planet so that could be it! ;)
 
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Hey, no price discussions you kids ;)

I'm not speculating on how this difference occurred but comparing two pills from the same source but a week apart side by side, there is a slight colour difference. One is a deeper purplish-pink, while the other is a lighter reddish-pink. The reddish pink have a more domed bottom. There is variation in the size and shape of the score and the size of the stamp. However, the test result is identical for each, using Mandelin and Marquis - straight to black in three seconds.
 
Had these on 2 occassions in Perth in the last month. First ones with a very 'square' score running right to the edge of the pill did jack shit. The second ones had a quite shallow 'concave' score that didn't run to the edge were full of goodness, but severely cooked on them - was totally drenched. The logo on both was quite shallow, with the 3 points running right to the edge, and both lots had 'domed' face on the score side.
 
I often by a V or red bull drink....simply for the buzz (usualy im too dehydrated too drink them but sometimes i do) never doing that again i tell u.
 
Raids net deadly Mitsubishi drug
By Gemma Jones
November 1, 2004

LETHAL tablets of the same drug believed responsible for the deaths of two people over the past month were seized by police in raids at Kings Cross and the city early yesterday.

Police officers recovered up to 100 illegal pills, including 3½ "Red Mitsubishi" tablets.

Officers were alarmed by the discovery of the ecstasy-based drug, which killed 19-year-old Danielle Chalon just four weeks ago.

Ms Chalon collapsed at Kings Cross and died later in hospital after taking half an "Orange CK" tablet, which is also sold as Red Mitsubishi but is considered more dangerous.

Just eight days ago, 38-year-old South Australian man Steven Fotineas died in a North Adelaide motel room from a suspected overdose of Red Mitsubishi.

Just a small amount of the drug can cause a deadly increase in blood pressure and body temperature.

Twelve MTV ecstasy tablets - which police say are as dangerous as Red Mitsubishi - cocaine, amphetamines and filled syringes were seized during yesterday's raid.

Most clubbers dumped the drugs on nightclub floors as police and a drug sniffer dog entered venues in Oxford St and George St to search patrons.

Inspector John Behrendt, the target action group leader from City Central Police said he was surprised to see the drug was still circulating.

"Especially since that girl died, you would wonder why people are still dealing in that when it is so dangerous," he said.

"With all the publicity you would think people would pay attention."

Ms Chalon was out with friends on October 1 when she took half an Orange CK tablet on her way to Kings Cross, where she collapsed.

She died three days later at Nepean Hospital when her life support machine was switched off after doctors discovered bleeding on her brain.

Several other people have been hospitalised after taking the drug, which police warn is often sold as ecstasy but contains paramethoxy-amphetamine or PMA, which is a far more dangerous substance.

After yesterday's operation, 16 people were charged with drug possession offences, with one woman allegedly found with the 12 MTV ecstasy tablets.

Another 14 people were issued with cautions for cannabis possession.

In the highly-visible operation, officers carrying seized syringes and bags of powder emerged from Arq nightclub just after 1am.

They moved down Oxford St, searching patrons in clubs including Kinselas at 1.30am and the Colombian Hotel just before 2am.

The 17 police involved in the operation recorded 94g of drugs, which were discarded on nightclub floors as police entered.

Insp Behrendt said several of the alleged offenders were arrested.

Link.

"With all the publicity you would think people would pay attention."

Lots of publicity, not a lot of information. What exactly did the 2 people die from? That information still hasn't been released.

Red Mitsubishis: caffeine and MDMA. Is that likely to put people off?

[ Edit: or do they contain PMA again now? If they want people to listen they should cut the hysteria and get their story straight. ]
 
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The local news just ran a story about a "drug raid on a suburban flat that netted a deadly party drug".

Some young man's flat was raided, and the police found all of 45 red mitsubishi pills. The newsreader described them as "ecstasy like". (They are fucking ecstasy)

45 pills; enough supposedly for camermen and journalists to be present when this young man was led away into a police car.


Now the reason I am extremely concerned about this constant media beat up and continual supply of misinformation, is because come this poor bastard's sentencing hearing, the prosecution are going to raise all sorts of claims about how dangerous these pills are, and that a significant deterrent penalty must be imposed.

Yes the prosecution will have to rely on the certificate of analysis which will state the pill contained only MDMA:caffeine, but they will also use the continuous supply of anecdoctal comments coming from the police about the perceived dangers associated with these pills. If this person's record is clean, he would have in all likelihood got away with a suspended sentence if he was dealing in "ordinary" MDMA pills. However because of the hysteria surrounding these mitisis, he is very likely to go to jail. And that is wrong.

These pills are no different to other MDMA ones I have had over some 5 1/2 years. They just happen to be on the strong side and I hazard a guess the caffeine raises temperature and increases dehydration to a degree. But this man does not deserve to go to jail because the police and the media continually potray them as extremely dangerous, and essentially anyone who deals in them, murderers.
 
I agree completly with your perspective Biscuit its moraly wrong for the police to treate this fiasco as they have been.
Im VERY curious why nothing has been done about the Orange cK pills that may have been the cause of Danielle Chalon's unnecesary death. Is it because the authorities just don't give a damn? Or something else I wonder.
 
This latest article says this "She died three days later at Nepean Hospital when her life support machine was switched off after doctors discovered bleeding on her brain.". I remember reading that the family decided to turn off the life support because there was no brain function what-so-ever. If what I read first was what happened then this article would be backing up the 'ecstacy makes your brain bleed' myth. WTF?
 
sounds like she passed out and hit her head on the ground at some stage :/
 
mongman said:
Im VERY curious why nothing has been done about the Orange cK pills that may have been the cause of Danielle Chalon's unnecesary death. Is it because the authorities just don't give a damn? Or something else I wonder.

Media reports "orange cKs or red mistusbishis" were "the cause of death", "cause of overdose", "seized", "found on clubbers" etc. ie, The names are interchangeable, they are one and the same.

Which we know is bs, which is another reason why the publicity may not be working as well as they'd hoped.
 
certificate of analysis VS supposed dangers

Well said Biscuit!
This guys going to get worked over and for what? Not the right reasons anyway..

Its all wrong but won't the final analysis of these pills help him out in the end? Sketchy media reports shouldn't mean anything in the courts if you ask me.

Tex Perkins:
"Better get a lawyer son"
"Better get a real good one"
 
The media may have mixed the red mitsubishi's and orange cK's up but surely the police know they are different. Its the police that would in theory be doing something about it wouldn't they?
 
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