No more tappering, cold turkey hopefully for the last time

[Jabberwocky]

hello guys, I did not want to start a new thread because I did so in the past and I feel ashamed to reapper with the same issue, i posted initially in the tds social thread but then I saw a rule about it not being permited so I have to start one.

I've finally did the step and threw away all my tramadol,oxy and morphine. this is the xxx time when I'm saying that I quit in 6 years, my doses would range between 1000-1500 mg tramadol daily ( had a seizure only once when mixed with stimulants, I think it it's due to the activity of my cyp2d6 enzymes), now I tappered to 300 mg and tommorow I will deal with this shit cold turkey as I fucked over so many tappers that I think I must finally go through withdrawal again.


this year I od'ed from fentanyl, lied, manipulated, pawned stuff the most of my life, I don't have friends anymore at all, my family kinda trusts me again beacause that I lied that I'm sober now. I've been in rehab last year but not gonna fall into the trap that some magic place exists where I go and come out fixed for life., I am very sick of all of it. very depressed also, thoughts about suicide appear in my head daily, I just can't control them, I am not willing to take my life as the nothingness of death ( I kinda view death as a huge void and it scares me a lot) even if my thoughts are ultra racing about this subject I try to remind myself the time I OD'd on fent ( the darkness of that memory is a good tool in scaring these thoughts away)


although I took the tramadol orally and the oxy also, I would IV pretty much anything from K,mdma,speed, morphine etc. anything that beside oxy which has a high oral BA anyways so I have to deal with a needle fixation kind of too.The other classes of drugs did not present such a problem for me as opiates.


the opiates took away everything from me, I view myself as a sociopath already although my negative feelings are blooming I don't know what human bonds are, feeling like regular folks, I mean having feelings that are not triggered chemically by substances not made by my body naturally.


I used them since I was 14 now I am 21 and they played a huge part in me growing up, I lost myself so much in this shit that I don't even know if I remember who I really am. for now everything in my life revolves around drugs, I read and studied so much shit that psychiatrists and people specialized in this in Romania ( my country ) are always amazed by my knowledge and set of skills but I can't use the knowledge to help myself. I am so good at deceiving my own mind and soul. I still used till now cause I convinced myself that I am better accepting the fact that I will live this my whole life so I don't dissapoint myself everytime I relapse and put a toll on my body being in and out the withdrawal state.


Now I am thinking that I won't use any benzos, ssris, anti-psyhotics or even weed as before and go through it the natural way, just eating,sleeping, listening to jazz/funk/soul records, even flip some samples to produce some music. I used to have a huge passion in writing I wrote 3 poetry books, started several novels and plays but I did not do it for a long time beside having shows in my birth city or where I live currently with rhymes on the spot (off da dome/freestyle) and sometimes battles. I think that I should turn this obssesion with substances in a bigger obsession with music.


It is in my personality since I was a kid that I tend to abuse a certain "hobby" and sadly my current hobby destroyed everything, but I am willing to accept the loss and fight for my life to get on the track. Unfortunately I have to go through this alone, I won't announce my familiy nor my only 1 friend, maybe 2 friends at all since my habbits damage my bonds with them already enough. I hate the most at tramadol withdrawal the brain zap thing and all the depression and anxiety which is more predominant and enhanced than with normal opiates, this is due to tramadol being metabolized in nortramadol also (which has serotonine neurouptake inhibitor properties as well). I would love to hear some ways in you guys deal with cravings and impulsive tendencies as those always get me back in the grips of addiction and maybe something for stomach pain, I have huge huge stomach aches that are persistent the whole day and when I eat they are even more pronounced, I think this is called narcotic bowel syndrome (not uncommon in opiate addicts)

 

[Painful One]

You can make it through this brother.

At least you are off the fentanyl. The tramadol wont be nearly as bad. Good job for tapering that down.
You know, even when tapered down to low amounts there is still a bad withdrawal at the end so sometimes it is best to just take a leap of faith and hold through it no matter what.

You are so young and time is on your side. You can rebuild your entire life and make new friends and get new things and just carry on with a whole new life and put this behind you.

I hope you feel better real soon. We are all here for you.

 

[Jabberwocky]

idk why but always tramadol was the hardest for me to quit, I enjoy it as much as other much harder opiates. this may be due to my body probably metabolizing a lot more o-demethyltramadol then in a regular person and that it has ssri properties, I wouldnt even take morphine or oxy without it.

thanks for the support, I already woke up in withdrawal with huge brain zaps but not gonna give up. really, thank you!

 

[neurogal]

Morpheus,

Don't for a second feel ashamed to reappear with the same issue, as you put it. The majority of sober addicts have tried and failed many times before they were able to hang on to their sobriety. What's important is that you keep trying. Don't give the fuck up, no matter what. As I'm sure you know, your quality of life, and your life itself depend on it.

Tramadol CAN be even tougher to quit than opiates. As some put it, tramadol withdrawals are like quitting both an opiate and an SNRI antidepressant due to the various actions of the drug. However, you've kicked a major addiction to the curb already, and I've no doubt you can succeed with the tramadol as well.

I'm truly impressed that you had the courage to throw all your pills out. You're a badass man, I was never able to do that.

To your questions, dealing with cravings and impulses is easiest for me when I don't have easy access to whatever it is that I want. Burn some bridges, lose some phone numbers, or even close bank accounts if you're buying online. Second, make your sober life enjoyable. Eat some good food, buy yourself some nice shit with the money you would have spent on drugs.Third, strengthen what connections you have with family or friends. Spend as much time as you can stand around people who don't abuse drugs. Social connections influence our behavior. What you're doing in all the moments you aren't craving WILL help you to combat cravings when they come. Fourth, look into cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). The most useful strategy I learned in intensive outpatient therapy when getting off heroin was this: When a craving hits, run through the whole chain of events in your mind. Where do you end up after the high wears off? Depressed? Broke? Focus on the end result. Remember that drug use doesn't stop with the high. That's only the beginning. Then you've got a load of consequences facing you, whether mental, physical, emotional, financial, etc.

For your stomach pain, IF (I'm not a doctor) you indeed have narcotic bowel syndrome, the primary treatment is discontinuation of opiates. To get your elimination regular again, you're looking at physical activity, increased fiber and water, and possibly stool softeners. However, IF you have some kind of partial obstruction, the intervention of a medical professional may be necessary. Feel free to Google the condition for more info.

I'm really proud of you. Please keep us updated on how you're doing. Hugs

 

[M0NSTER]

Just wanted to post and say good luck. It's never a straight line towards recovery, more of a spiral with dips and reverse motion, etc. There is no shame and most of us who have quit cold turkey or otherwise have gone back and forth. I recently did a month long stint where I stopped using all opiates. Good luck, godspeed and I look forward to reading about your journey

 

[Jabberwocky]

I threw them away, because I was very very depressed of the fact that I always lie to myself to wait until I finish them so I got that factor out. I've behavioural therapy tons of times before rehab, after rehab etc.

the connection stuff does not really apply here because any open pharmacy can be my dealer as although the tramadol is not OTC I can buy it pretty much anywhere ( they are not very strict in romania just if I abuse their kindness) only the morph and oxy connection is illicit but I won't get in contact with them again.

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey morpheuspapaverus

Life as an active addict.. can we make a mess of things.. yes we can.

So we end up looking around at the miserable state of our lives, dangling from our own BS, by a pinky finger made of heart.

How the fuck do we get out of here. That's first. Try and take the whole mess on at once and you fall down again.


What needs to go first. What needs to be shelved for now.

Just make it through the detox. Shelve all the other stuff. It haunts us through the detox. It shouldn't as we can work through that after the detox.


You can do this!

 

[Jabberwocky]

thank you very much, this advice with the not taking it all at once is golden, never thought of that. everytime I get here I am thinking now it's time to turn everything upsidedown but you are right!

I still have cravings, constantly telling myself to score and then convincing myself to not, brain zaps are worse and worse, I try to eat and sleep as much as I can really. tried to work at some beats but it did not work out, maybe I will smoke some weed eventualy if my insomnias become uncomfortable.

 

[M0NSTER]

thank you very much, this advice with the not taking it all at once is golden, never thought of that. everytime I get here I am thinking now it's time to turn everything upsidedown but you are right!

I still have cravings, constantly telling myself to score and then convincing myself to not, brain zaps are worse and worse, I try to eat and sleep as much as I can really. tried to work at some beats but it did not work out, maybe I will smoke some weed eventualy if my insomnias become uncomfortable.

Honestly I know you mentioned quitting all substances at once, but sometimes a little weed can take you out of the mindset and help you focus on something else, especially when you have cravings. The hardest bit for me was filling my time back up, the days are so long when you aren't constantly fucked up.

I think writing (you mentioned poetry) would be a really good thing to get back into, as well as making beats, reaching out to friends from the past and explaining what's up. It's important to have a social connection as well, as many of your emotions will come flooding back.

Congrats for coming this far! Rooting for you

 

[Painful One]

HI MP,

Just checking on you. Giving you some encouragement and a smile.

You have to let go of the shame and the guilt my brother. It has got to go. It will rip you down every time.
Your mom has forgiven you. Everyone else will eventually forgive you too. It is time to forgive yourself.
Go easy on yourself. Give yourself a break.

Just take this one small step at a time. Every step forward is huge! We all take steps forward and then steps back.
You just have to recognize the steps back. Let it go and move forward. Little by little.
This is not impossible.

Keep your head up. You can do this. Try to stay out of your head and instead stay centered in your heart.

I hope you feel better real soon.

 

[Jabberwocky]

a friend surprised me from the birth town, he came to this town to a party and we had some beers chill on good music, some soul shit and had a spliff. all alright for now, a more positive thought thanks PO
for checking, I never gave too much attention to this subforum but this one might be one of my helping hands in getting everything better, I wanted to say back, but as neversick said there is nothing to take back just to go forward

 

[Jabberwocky]

UPDATE: My mindset is getting better and better, sure I got the cravings and such and act like I have a double personality in my head (ie. get up go score, it's gonna be good, don't you want to feel good? , nah just fuck off ) and things like that, but I'm not gonna sacrifice getting in a worse w/d again just for 10 hours of pleasure, it's like buying a fucking ticket to a show ))) these sucker substances only give us a set time of action, their time is more controlled than the capsules themselves.

I am having pretty mid-distance walks every night but just after 00:00 when the pharmacies are closed and the non stop ones at this time frame wouldn't give me a single capsule without a script so it's alright. Today I did chores around the house, cleaning and shit. tried to eat as much as I could, I bought myself some fruits. it's disturbing that I didn't buy anything healthy in such a long time, that a lot of folks would not believe me that I spent money on those and actually consumed them.

I've been thinking of doing a lorepamide taper or something similar but I said fuck that, my body is not getting anymore help from a substance it's time for this pile of shit to work on its own, it had a pretty long vaction so it should be rested, my mind is not really at rest yet more like at a deep rest ( if you know what I mean ).

Did wrote some stuff and worked on some beats too also, I hope that everyone is okay and I decided to dedicate some time to help other people out too when I'm out of this. been thinking about the helping in the past too as I had some chats with some social workers at the national antidrug agency ( they are harm reduction related not like the DEA ). we have lots of synthetic cannabinoid users and stimulat users in the city so I guess I could give some help as they are very poorly educated regarding drug related stuff. they are very very very few like me on opioids, only past mid-age people or elder ones. a friend has an lorazepam issue (it's called Ativan the brand name in the rest of the world ) , the psychiatrist keeps feeding him with it and his parents too with the ideea of their miracle properties ( I was also attending therapy sessions at her in my home town when I was 16 because I was already hooked maaaadly on tramadol, 1000mg then too, idk how the fuck did I tolerate so much may be related to the action of my cy2pd6 enzymes as I said earier in other posts.

Only good wishes for you guys, I know that all of you are going through hard times so please message me whenever you need a friend to talk to, I've met other romanian addicts through this site in the past and kept contact for a long time so who knows maybe I can help!

 

[Painful One]

Good for you MP!

Well done!!!

Yes, keep eating healthy things. Fruits is perfect. They help so much.
It is amazing how you all of a sudden start to crave them and they taste delicious!
That is a good, good sign brother.

Helping others helps us so much.
There is not much understanding about these substances.
Doctors will prescribe you this stuff and not say a word about "withdrawal".
They don't even have the balls to tell you that is what you are experiencing and it will pass.
They just leave you thinking you have gone crazy and accuse you of addiction.

I'm really proud of you. Don't worry, this will pass and your mind will feel better soon.
Don't turn to Ativan or any kind of benzodiazepine. Those are WAY more hardcore and worse withdrawal then you ever want to experience. It is not worth it at all. Just let your body work this out. The human body is an amazing thing.

Much Love to you!

 

[Jabberwocky]

thanks for the good wishes po, no need to worry with the benzos, I was talking about a friend. I have experience with clonazepam (rivotril), alprazolam, diazepam, nitrazepam, lorazepam and also bromazepam. They never were my thing really and I always re-dose stupidly on those.

Still having battles inside my mind, but I try to process everything to get just the positive things out.

I really hope this will last because I tend to have bipolar tendencies (I'm not bipolar and I don't wish to be), the tendencies come from my imbalances in the brain with all the snri ssri properties of trams.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah at first when I saw lorazepam I was about to warn you how the withdrawal from those is far worse, but then I saw you meant your friend. Good call on not doing a loperamide taper. Loperamide is addictive as well and with such a long half-life it has a long withdrawal. Plus in the doses necessary to get opiate withdrawal relief, it's dangerous for your heart. Some people have used it successfully to block withdrawal by just taking it a few times and getting past the worst of withdrawal but it's very risky because a lot of the time I see people keep using it and then just fall into a new, more dangerous addiction.

Also, good job on eating healthy foods. This will really help you recover, too. If you can pick up a calcium-magnesium supplement, the magnesium helps with the restless limbs (but needs calcium to absorb properly). If you're not exercising regularly, I strongly recommend starting that, it will help your body produce more endorphins which will normalize your system faster. Plus being in shape feels great overall. And working your muscles to tiredness helps the restlessness too.

Good work, you're doing it!

 

[Jabberwocky]

thanks for checking in SM, I eat enormous amounts, ate more in these days then the last months for sure, at the beginning I was forcing it but now it comes naturally. I always had huge stomach aches in the past in w/d but I guess it was becaue I did not eat at all.

With the exercise thing, right now only mid-distance walks are the most I can do, besides I have a back issue, no pain right now but if I put pressure on it it might turn ugly, but I've been thinking to try out swimming as many doctors sugested that for my back, as I need back muscles. but for now I will go for the walks till I am in a more solid form.

For the boredom I write as much I can and study music, plus rewatching the wire as I love that show, no matter how many times I restart it ( can't do the rewatching thing with other shows/movies)

have a nice day guys!

 

[Xorkoth]

TV shows are a great way to distract yourself during withdrawal. Good job doing any exercise, it's hard during acute withdrawal but once you get past that, I recommend going as hard as you can with it.

As an aside, I also had very little back muscle when I got off opiates. I was scrawny, 6 feet tall and about 130 pounds (also really skinny from lack of eating besides lack of muscle). I had a slouch and my back always hurt and was not in alignment. When I started working out, I focused on my back and over a few months it literally straightened me out, it was a little painful making the transition but now my back is the strongest part of my body and I can't even tell you how much better everything feels. Plus I stand up straight now. I weigh about 180, although probably 170 is my ideal, I have a little extra body fat these days.

 

[Jabberwocky]

still opiate free! and feeling AWESOME, yeah I still have maaad cravings I could crawl up the wall but I'm fine, smoked a little extra weed so I won't touch it in the near future as I tend to oversmoke.

Had 2mg of rivotril (clonazepam) but did not improve my mood at all anxiety wise instead had some proper sleep but not gonna use it for sure in the nearby future. it's ironic that the things I can get the most aka any kind of benzos, I hate the most so it's a blessing I guess.

Hope y'all doing fine, I update less as I am really focused on recording an album but I leave my bluelight open anytime bc when I have some spare time I help out some folks as I enjoy it a lot.

 

[Xorkoth]

Hey there, that's awesome, congrats on doing so well! The cravings will get less intense over time.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I am a little stressed out, I have missed the whole semester of college ( again, as I did the past 2 years) but now I really want to do it, I just don't know how to handle the situation, my exams are in 2 weeks, not a big problem if I would have the courses but I do not, and I do not know any of my coleagues or proffesors. I was thinking of saying that I was in recovery ( not from addiction, I don't want to involve that part of me in this ) of a disease and now I am ready to try to take these exams and if I fail I will get them next semester along with the ones coming then.

Does this sound okay? or I am overreacting? the panick comes from the fact that if I fuck this up then I will have to go back to my home town and get a shitty job because I won't receive anymore founding to "start a new life" as a I started so many new lives that a cat is crap compared to me. This university shit is driving me crazy along with the cravings, I just want to smoke and forget now that I put a barrier on everything else but luckily I still stay sober because weed will just amplify the panic