I hope it will for ya too, keep us updated on this one mate!
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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
NMDA antagonists for tolerance, a collection of the evidence and anecdotal reports
- Thread starter MeDieViL
- Start date
I hope it will for ya too, keep us updated on this one mate!
Check out those experiences, those are all that tried it meaning it so far consistently worked for everyone, no mixed reports wich make it look extremely interesting:
The experiences need to keep coming it, and the addition of DXM doesnt need much efford, so not much reason not to try it.
The experiences need to keep coming it, and the addition of DXM doesnt need much efford, so not much reason not to try it.
They induce upregulation and seem to reverse the changes induced by tolerance/dependency.
Well, you may be the one convincing people that still think the same about this right now
I just came acros this post:
I'm posting this to encourage those not getting as positive results to report their experience too.
He's experience did not an increase in tolerance tough, just that dxm didnt reverse he's tolerance:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=543949
I'm posting this to encourage those not getting as positive results to report their experience too.
He's experience did not an increase in tolerance tough, just that dxm didnt reverse he's tolerance:
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Transform
Bluelight Crew
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The brain is an incredibly complex system, and we still don't fully understand it, however, what we can do is use science to help predict what will happen when we make a particular change, based on past experience.
Past experience in this case shows that 100% of the time, DXM will reduce tolerance even when taken with the substance of abuse.
Funny thing is, we do understand this mechanism fairly well, and if you read the journals in this thread you'll hopefully be able to understand why.
Good luck to you.
How the hell can i get this thing more popular so more people try it? I first posted it in other drugs thinking a ton of ppl will try it as they have major tolerance issues there, i got 2 comments saying good work and none tried it to my suprise, after it got moved to ADD then people started trying it however considering the succes ppl have been having far more people should try it, if poeple keep having succes eventually i would like to get this thing to become the basic first thing poeple try when fighting drug tolerance or addiction.
Another thing NMDA antagonists have potential for is turning certain addictive meds into sustainable long term treatments for mental disorders such as opiates and amphetamine's, normally they cant be used for that since tolerance will occur rapidly, however it may just be easier to counteract those issues rather then coming up with new novel compounds.
I like the quote someone put here before, NMDA antagonists certainly arent the magic bullets, however they are the next best thing after the magic bullets.
I like the quote someone put here before, NMDA antagonists certainly arent the magic bullets, however they are the next best thing after the magic bullets.
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amanitadine
Bluelighter
^^^ I took part in a study years ago measuring the NMDA antagonistic effects of the separate isomers of methadone. This is the primary reason methadone tolerance does not skyrocket like traditional agonists.....
Great work by the way, makes for fascinating reading.
Separate but similar study:
The d- and l- isomers of methadone bind to the non-competitive site on the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor in rat forebrain and spinal cord
A. Laurel Gorman, Kathryn J. Elliott and Charles E. Inturrisi*
Department of Pharmacology, Cornell University Medical College, 1300 York Avenue, New York, NY 10021, USA
Received 3 December 1996; revised 7 January 1997; accepted 7 January 1997. Available online 28 January 1998.
Abstract
Racemic (dl)-methadone has antagonist activity at the N-methyl-D
-aspartate (NMDA) receptor. We evaluated dl-methadone, the opioid active (l-) and the opioid inactive (d-) isomers in competition binding assays. dl-Methadone and its d- and l- isomers exhibited low micromolar affinities for the [3H]MK-801-labeled non-competitive site of the NMDA receptor in both rat forebrain and spinal cord synaptic membranes, with Ki values and displacement curves similar to those of dextromethorphan, an established NMDA receptor antagonist. They lacked affinity at the [3H]CGS-19755-labeled competitive site of the NMDA receptor. Therefore, both methadone and its the d- and l- isomers differ from morphine, hydromorphone, and naltrexone in that they have non-competitive antagonist activity at the NMDA receptor. A non-opioid NMDA receptor antagonist, such as d-methadone, may improve the efficacy of morphine by attenuating the development of tolerance.
Great work by the way, makes for fascinating reading.
Separate but similar study:
The d- and l- isomers of methadone bind to the non-competitive site on the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor in rat forebrain and spinal cord
A. Laurel Gorman, Kathryn J. Elliott and Charles E. Inturrisi*
Department of Pharmacology, Cornell University Medical College, 1300 York Avenue, New York, NY 10021, USA
Received 3 December 1996; revised 7 January 1997; accepted 7 January 1997. Available online 28 January 1998.
Abstract
Racemic (dl)-methadone has antagonist activity at the N-methyl-D
-aspartate (NMDA) receptor. We evaluated dl-methadone, the opioid active (l-) and the opioid inactive (d-) isomers in competition binding assays. dl-Methadone and its d- and l- isomers exhibited low micromolar affinities for the [3H]MK-801-labeled non-competitive site of the NMDA receptor in both rat forebrain and spinal cord synaptic membranes, with Ki values and displacement curves similar to those of dextromethorphan, an established NMDA receptor antagonist. They lacked affinity at the [3H]CGS-19755-labeled competitive site of the NMDA receptor. Therefore, both methadone and its the d- and l- isomers differ from morphine, hydromorphone, and naltrexone in that they have non-competitive antagonist activity at the NMDA receptor. A non-opioid NMDA receptor antagonist, such as d-methadone, may improve the efficacy of morphine by attenuating the development of tolerance.
Transform
Bluelight Crew
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I've been sending people here from from EADD when I think they could use the advice, but I think the movement to ADD in some ways highlights the problem. This thread is full of excellent evidence, studies and journal pages, but non ADD'ers don't want/have time to read and understand all of the evidence, they want to read a single page with a brief summary, what they need to do, and an FAQ.
They're quite happy to trust us to have read the studies properly, they just need to know what to do. It's often a shame, but most people will trust scientists pretty blindly.
Write up the key points here into layman's terms, have it stickied in the dark side, and water liberally, pruning in spring.
avcpl
Bluelighter
I really want to try, but I just can't adapt. After just three days of memantine (5, 10, 15mg), I had to stop due to side effects. I'll give dxm a try after I stop my saint john's wort, but seriously doubt I'll be able to get to the levels required to reverse tolerance...
I too would like to try this for MDMA tolerance, but I'd like to learn more about the safety of taking dxm within even one day's proximity of MDMA. The memantine heart issues are also of concern. That said, I've been very interested in this thread. Keep it going!
avcpl
Bluelighter
Mbrace, as MeDieViL stated above, that the NMDA antagonist benefit should remain, so would you really need to take the DXM so close to the MDMA?
Maybe first try the DXM 60mg 2x/day for a week for tolerance reversal/upregulation and then wait a week (or more) before you roll?
That's my plan (in between my trials of 6g/day of SJW, since it's not good to combine the two), but I worry it will make me too lightheaded since I often use powertools or am up on a roof or driving and that might be too risky.
I should also add that on memantine, when I was exercising my heartrate was easily 15bpm higher than it normally is and was getting into an uncomfortable range...
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Rodent study's indicate that nmda antagonists prevents tolerance to the sedative effect, however another study showed that an NMDA antagonist did not prevent tolerance to the anxiolytic effects.
Hopefully it reverses the tolerance to the anxiolytic effects in humans otherwise there's no point. 4th Day so far, runnin low, time to buy a new bottle tomorrow lol
Hopefully it reverses the tolerance to the anxiolytic effects in humans otherwise there's no point. 4th Day so far, runnin low, time to buy a new bottle tomorrow lol
just want to share my story. was iv heroin user for 5 years, opiates for 8. tried suboxone and it didnt work and methadone i couldnt function.
now im off all opiates (including suboxone and dont have PAWS)
day1-day4 25%decrease per day on suboxone
day 4- 100mg rectal 4meoPCP
day 5- heroin (new years, cmon) and coke
day 6-8 quick taper off methadone
day 8 methoxetamine
done.
no w/d
feeling pretty good.
now im off all opiates (including suboxone and dont have PAWS)
day1-day4 25%decrease per day on suboxone
day 4- 100mg rectal 4meoPCP
day 5- heroin (new years, cmon) and coke
day 6-8 quick taper off methadone
day 8 methoxetamine
done.
no w/d
feeling pretty good.
FlippingTop
Bluelighter
I shall read through this tonight when I have some time.
Fucking good work :D
Fucking good work :D