Nifoxipam sensitivity to heat? Solubility?

[Solipsis]

Well, look at all the polar groups hanging off nifoxipam. I have never had the need to work with PG. Unless you vape or wanna inject water insolubles, PG isnt that attractive I think..

The analogous oxazepam is insoluble in water (no kidding) and soluble 1 in 220 in alcohol.
The also analogous flunitrazepam is also insoluble in water and soluble 1 in 172 in alcohol.

Alprazolam and diazepam are indeed much more freely soluble in ethanol (alcohol)..

Anyway if we assume (guesstimate) nifoxipam is soluble in ethanol about 1 in 200, but lets say 1 in 400... then 250 mg would dissolve in 100 ml giving you 0.4 ml per 1 mg. [You dose that using an oral syringe / the barrel without the needle].That's fair isn't it? Even if you had to double the volume of ethanol to dissolve in, it should be fine. [Just with alprazolam and diazepam I could get away with dissolving in some ethanol first then diluting further with vodka to achieve my solution. That does not crash those benzo's out. But here I wouldn't try it and you would need everclear / ethanol absolute (not Absolut vodka lol) and heed these solubility data.]
Starting with a little DMSO to dissolve your nifoxipam, then dissolving that DMSO solution further into ethanol may very well be an ensurance policy to get / keep it dissolved well and if its so little DMSO consuming it is less nasty or tricky.

I'm not sure how much of your nifoxipam is actually visible in sludge or suspended in the PG right now but if it's pretty much what you started with then you should be able to see how far along you are extracting the nifoxipam into the nonpolar (hexane / pet et / naphtha etc) layer. Sure, normally shaking the shit out of A/B / liquid-liquid extractions is what you want for best surface area of action - as belligerent drunk described - but considering there are 3 solvents present and none of us are sure what will be going on, I would be careful to avoid those emulsion layers in between your extraction layers that are a pain to let settle again. For the laymen: that looks like a part of liquid in the middle that looks all bubbly, messy and often opaque. You don't want that, you want easy transfer of your product from one of the solvents into the other.

If you can see the nifoxipam being extracted that should show you if swirling is enough or how you need to slowly ramp up the shaking intensity.

To get a better idea of the extraction, this is what it looks like if you use an actual separatory funnel.. the tap at the bottom allows you to drain the bottom layer relatively precisely.. Without that piece of hardware you would have to improvise, here I googled "ghetto separatory funnel" for you:
https://www.google.nl/search?q=liqu...0&bih=925#tbm=isch&q=ghetto+separatory+funnel

NSFW:

So naphtha is available at diy hardware store, people can get everclear or nearly pure ethanol relatively easily in a number of countries but harder in others (the last 4% is really a total asshole to get out cause of the "azeotrope"), bicarb is not exotic... so should be feasible if you are adamant. Obviously only buy drinkable ethanol, NOT denatured.

 

[belligerent drunk]

That is a very good point you're making about the fact that even with poor solubility, the mg/ml ratio is still good considering how low the active doses are, I didn't think about that.

 

[AlphaOdure]

Ok, i'm just muddling over this and trying to play it out over and over in my head as detailed as possible..b/c i already started a reverse CWE.. but now i have powder dried on a coffee filter that i can't scrape off or anything (& there seems to be a static charge attracting the powder to the coffee filter, even after dried). but to be honest, theres more yellowish powder left over in the 2nd bowl I originally poured through the coffee filter? (once.. or if.. confident in your method.. i'll probably just end up soaking the coffee filter in the solution)

So i'm just sitting here.. re-reading your posts.. trying to absorb it. I'm getting it a bit more, but when you're saying is it'll eventually dissolve in the naptha? or we don't know what it'll dissolve in? (polar/non-polar talk confusing to me.. sorry guys, must sound like such a newb chump w/ my lacking chemistry knowledge)

 

[belligerent drunk]

If you have dry powder stuck in filter or somewhere else, you can wash it and subsequently dissolve it with ethanol, if ethanol does in fact dissolve it.

 

[Solipsis]

Good idea, maybe just cut off a small piece of the coffee filter and put it in a shot glass with a little ethanol - only just enough to cover it, to see if you can then scrape it off with say the handle of a spoon or what have you. If you see the powder coming loose, great - fish out the now cleaned filter paper, discard it and keep a close eye on the shot glass with ethanol. If the powder laying on the bottom disappears from your vision by dissolving, great you got your answer. If not add a little ethanol and wait again. etc.

You can apply a little bit of heat, but no open flame - its alcohol ffs.

A very small amount of PG should dissolve along in the ethanol without causing a problem, but a significant amount might mess up your ability to achieve good solubility.

If you find that your nifox does dissolve in ethanol, pool all your filter-stuck product with a volume of ethanol the total of which you measure the volume of (dump in the content of shot glass if you like). For the 250 mg it should be say 100 ml ethanol. Or weigh the ethanol and calculate the volume using the density. We can help you with that, there is a chart with the densities of pretty much every purity of ethanol w/ water.

Only that way will you have a solution with known concentration (perhaps slightly lower due to loss, not a problem there). Which you can dose using an oral syringe.

 

[AlphaOdure]

Good idea, maybe just cut off a small piece of the coffee filter and put it in a shot glass with a little ethanol - only just enough to cover it, to see if you can then scrape it off with say the handle of a spoon or what have you. If you see the powder coming loose, great - fish out the now cleaned filter paper, discard it and keep a close eye on the shot glass with ethanol. If the powder laying on the bottom disappears from your vision by dissolving, great you got your answer. If not add a little ethanol and wait again. etc.

You can apply a little bit of heat, but no open flame - its alcohol ffs.

A very small amount of PG should dissolve along in the ethanol without causing a problem, but a significant amount might mess up your ability to achieve good solubility.

If you find that your nifox does dissolve in ethanol, pool all your filter-stuck product with a volume of ethanol the total of which you measure the volume of (dump in the content of shot glass if you like). For the 250 mg it should be say 100 ml ethanol. Or weigh the ethanol and calculate the volume using the density. We can help you with that, there is a chart with the densities of pretty much every purity of ethanol w/ water.

Only that way will you have a solution with known concentration (perhaps slightly lower due to loss, not a problem there). Which you can dose using an oral syringe.

Thanks for all your hand holding!

I have a lot going on today & don't know if i can get to it.. But, unfortunately we're one of the few fucking counties where everclear can't be bought- i think closest is a couple hour drive to PA (in ohio area here). So alternative would be vodka? I do know i've lost some nifoxipam b/c i did lick off some residue off the dish plate last night in desperate attempt to get some sleep after syian rue/harmala extract+plugged yopo+snuffed yopo which kept me wide awake (usually knocks me out afterwards?)

And i have plenty of oral 1mg & 5mg oral syringes of course, 1mg'ers for my clonazolam & previous depleted flubromazolam batch (& for other various RC tastes & samples); 5mL for plugging my sub strips & whatever needs to get up my pooper (ditched all my 1cc 27g 1.5in rigs b/c.. well.. found myself using way more clonazolam than i actually needed just to fulfill my needle fetish.. evil evil evil... although tempting thoughts have been crossing my mind to perhaps try it w/ MXP i have coming.. but never tried the stuff, so will probably try small doses of anal administration. anyway, sorry, getting off topic)

I will re-read everything; type out what i'm planning to do & hopefully i can get some reaffirmations and corrections to help me out? probably w/in the next day or two?

Because here is what i have now:

• coffee filter w/ visible yellow nifoxipam residue, but amount unknown
• original flat dish containing the concoction i filtered thru the coffee filter mentioned above. this dish had a lot of visible yellow nifoxipam residue at the bottom. So i poured through the filtration very slowly leaving behind what looked like a dish w/ slightly moist powder. left overnight on a very hot heat pad to hopefully evaporate off any water, but whats keeping it moistened must be PG b/c so far it isn't drying too well.
• 2nd bowl containing the captured yellow liquid (and also captured the squeezed coffee filter liquid) after filtration sitting in fridge b/c it obviously still has nifoxipam in it. i can even see a lot the particles settling.. similar to the original flat dish i had it in.

So i'm Kind of waiting on whether or not i should do another filtration w/ coffee filter w/ the 2nd bowl of nifoxipam+h20+pg...whats the point if i'm to attempt your advice solipsis? But then again, i keep re-reading & trying to assess wording/concepts i don't understand using google & such, & i'm still not confident.

 

[AlphaOdure]

Ugh... at this point.. trying to understand everything.. i'm seriously just considering ordering 4oz (118.294mL) glass bottle of DSMO.. & i have/had a 110mL water+ 25Pg..But a god deal of this water has evaporated (been keeping bowls w/ yellow liquid on a heating pad, usually used for pain, for help in evaporation).. then putting back in fridge. So it should *just* fit.. & i cn go head & just experiment w/ the DMSO concoction mg/mL strength.. as it started off as 1.8 per mL in the concoction if it were friggin soluble.

So even w/ his extra crap added, the mg/mL should be around the same? around 1.63mg of nifoxipam w/ the dded 118mL of DMSO if i'm not mistken??

This just seems like the easiest process not to fuck upl & not having much funds, can order the 4x of DMSO for around ~$10

what do ya guys think?

 

[belligerent drunk]

I understand you have solid nifox that is a little wet on a dish? Well, it probably won't get much drier - PG/water have high boiling temperatures, you'd need high vacuum and even then you'd have trouble getting it dry, but that is not a problem. You could take a little chunk of the nifox solid and try to dissolve it in ethanol like Solipsis suggested. If it does dissolve in a reasonable amount of ethanol, then you've figured out your solvent of choice. You can recover the nifox from the filter just by washing it with ethanol since it dissolves the drug and you can dissolve the one on the dish as well.

Basically you could just try to evaporate the bowl with PG/water/nifox suspension and wash everything with ethanol to dissolve the drug. Then just combine the 3 ethanol solutions (keep in mind you have to know the volume you're using, so think about that).

 

[AlphaOdure]

i know the volume issue is gonna be a problem due to unknown amounts of H20 evaporation.. so it may just be trial & error thing.

But here, can't get everclear so could only get 80 proof vodka, wouldn't know if thats adequate enough?

But as i was saying, price-wise.. seems ordering the DMSO is cheaper? IDK, i have my subutex Rx to pick up later at Rite Aide which oddly enough also turns out to be our areas only state liquor store lmao.. so i'll compare the prices of some cheap high proof vodka (& i'd want smallest volume-sized bottle correct?) ASSUMING that vodka would substitute as an ethanol solvent rather than everclear...

b/c as i said, i believe the closest county that sells everclear is about 2 hours away, one state over in PA. ugh.

so will 40% vodka work as an adequate solvent or no?

 

[Solipsis]

No I mentioned that: with alprazolam or diazepam I could afford to dilute an ethanol solution further by adding vodka. But using straight vodka for nifoxipam which is less soluble in ethanol anyway is not an option, way too much water which it is INsoluble in.

 

[AlphaOdure]

No I mentioned that: with alprazolam or diazepam I could afford to dilute an ethanol solution further by adding vodka. But using straight vodka for nifoxipam which is less soluble in ethanol anyway is not an option, way too much water which it is INsoluble in.

ugh so i'm kind screwed here unless i somehow gain the ingenuity to follow your previous method solipsis. & i don't have much confidence in myself though (not out of laziness, just not good w/ chemistry whatsoever)

welll the vendor DID say nifoxipam is soluble in more base-alkaline water? what if i just add some sodium bicarbonate to the vodka? or does it not work like that w/ solubility? ya can't double down w/ multiple solvents.. it has to just be ONE solvent to be able to determine an accurate mg/ML scale.

shit this is so beyond me maybe i should just order the DMSO?? (Cuz in the end that is prob cheaper than having to buy your products for your process solipsis, & much simpler...!)

idk what to do at this point! ugh! maybe just eat some of the sludge, little by little until i gain effect? uggh

 

[belligerent drunk]

Doesn't have to be one solvent to know the volume of the solution. You can use a mix of solvents and just dilute it until you know the volume, for example fill a 0.3l or 0.5l bottle. Also, if you know what you'll be doing with DMSO, then you can do what I described in my previous post with DMSO instead of ethanol, it will mostly likely dissolve nifox without any problems.

You can test if sodium bicarbonate helps with the solubility in water, although I don't see why nifoxipam should dissolve better in alkaline water.

 

[Solipsis]

You do understand that when you ingest DMSO or get it on you, you will taste sulfuric stuff like garlic for a while? Using nearly pure isopropanol (= isopropyl alcohol) might be an option if you can find that. Not that that is great to drink.

Adding bicarb to vodka is not likely to work. Most benzo's get better solubility when water is more acidic, NOT alkaline. You get most of the compound in ring-opened conformation at low pH.

ffs don't eat the sludge.. making a known concentration in DMSO might actually be the best option then, especially if it keeps you from hurting yourself.

 

[AlphaOdure]

You do understand that when you ingest DMSO or get it on you, you will taste sulfuric stuff like garlic for a while? Using nearly pure isopropanol (= isopropyl alcohol) might be an option if you can find that. Not that that is great to drink.

Well w/ this in mind i'd rather the isopropanol; i've been doing a search on amazon & i'm assuming the ones that say "for external use only" or "for first aide only: are denatured, correct? Even though it doesn't explicitly state DENATURED... ??? Or is this merely just a "disclaimer" or is it fa pseudonym for denatured iso? B/c i don't know where else to obtain this (not asking for sources) rather than asking a pharmacist; but i doubt this would work.

Adding bicarb to vodka is not likely to work. Most benzo's get better solubility when water is more acidic, NOT alkaline. You get most of the compound in ring-opened conformation at low pH.

This is what I thought too? However, the vendor swore that base-H20 is one of the solvents it is soluble in.. here is their exact response via email when i messaged them w/ my complaints:

Dear Matthew,

I'm very sad to hear about your problems. Let me try to address them:
1) the compound can become statically charged when using plastic spoons a more effective method is to cut the bag and use a metal blade to scrape the content out.
2) you speak of moisture problems this could be due to the pressure of the air craft in flight and differing humidity in our and yours location (it's a wet Autumn in the UK)
3) the compound is soluble in the solvent DMSO which is non-harmful to use in biological assays
4) only in basic water will the compound be soluble, like the addition of baking soda.

So as you can see by #4... um.. they say for some reason water w/ baking soda would help w/ solubility? Yet they had no idea or information to give me on ratios and/or how much! I got a response "we are purely a vendor & that is the extent of our services"... which i am guess is a valid point...

ffs don't eat the sludge.. making a known concentration in DMSO might actually be the best option then, especially if it keeps you from hurting yourself.

i'm not!! No worries. I found some DMSO, but w/ 10% water.. i'm sure that wont hurt? I just don't know the mg/ml solubility rate. So hopefully ~80mL would be enough (3oz).. anyone have any opinions or ideas? i'm still going to have to do some experimentation on any DMSO or iso alcohol solution as i still have"sludge" w/PG & a little bit of H20 (although have left on a very hot heating pad for the past 2 days, so a lot of water has been lost/evaporated.

Oh and would DMSO w/ a roll on applicator cause much problems? I mean,i'm sure i could rip apart and add to a diff container if i have to completely destroy the container to remove the roll on applicator? But again,do ya think 88.72mL (3oz) would be enough to dissolve the remaining ~250mg of nifoxipam? Also, i hope i'm not degrading/destroying any of the nifoxipam by having it on low heat & leaving it out in the open here for 4-5 days?? (exposure to light on & off)

 

[belligerent drunk]

You do understand that when you ingest DMSO or get it on you, you will taste sulfuric stuff like garlic for a while? Using nearly pure isopropanol (= isopropyl alcohol) might be an option if you can find that. Not that that is great to drink.

Adding bicarb to vodka is not likely to work. Most benzo's get better solubility when water is more acidic, NOT alkaline. You get most of the compound in ring-opened conformation at low pH.

ffs don't eat the sludge.. making a known concentration in DMSO might actually be the best option then, especially if it keeps you from hurting yourself.

That's what I was thinking so I was confused as to why we were talking about alkaline solution, lol. Solipsis, do you think the same dilution procedure as you do with your benzos would work with nifoxipam using isopropanol, as in it wouldn't precipitate? Pure isopropanol isn't an enjoyable drink, but I've tried drinking something like 30-35% and it's not that bad, especially with juice.

No, I'm sure the 10% water won't hurt. Take a little piece of solid nifoxipam and see if it dissolves in your DMSO.

 

[AlphaOdure]

And where can one find pure iso alcohol anyway? amazon? is a legal, non-psychoactiv product so i don't know if this is source discussion or not... if so,just remove!

 

[belligerent drunk]

It definitely is psychoactive, in a similar fashion to ethanol, but I'm pretty sure it's legal (not a US resident here). Still, I think sourcing is not allowed. I think you may find it if not in your hardware store, then on an online auction site where you'd go if you wanted to buy a watch or a pair of jeans. (if this post goes too far, I apologize and will edit it).

 

[AlphaOdure]

It definitely is psychoactive, in a similar fashion to ethanol, but I'm pretty sure it's legal (not a US resident here). Still, I think sourcing is not allowed. I think you may find it if not in your hardware store, then on an online auction site where you'd go if you wanted to buy a watch or a pair of jeans. (if this post goes too far, I apologize and will edit it).

Well good advice, i did purchase via ebay through "industrial" sections....

just hope isopropanol will dissolve the nifo as Solipsis promised! it is 99% pure though. REALLY hope this works as I have about $0.60 left in my bank account

 

[AlphaOdure]

Only 30mL of 99% isopropanol.. hope this is enough to dissolve ~250mg nifoxipam?? w/ remaining PG sludge & some H20.. but like i said, i've left out the nifoxipam for about 4-5 days on a heating pad (evaporating a lot of H20).. so i hope this low heat and light does't destroy my nifoxipam??? 8(

 

[belligerent drunk]

30ml sounds like it may be too little. Definitely try to use as dry nifoxipam as possible initially, as any more polar (water or PG) solvent could lower the solubility if it gets mixed in accidentally.