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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

NEWS: SMH - 9/01/07 'Man caught with cannabis plant in court'

^Is there anyway to detect such herbicides in hydro? I prefer an outdoor smoke but unfourtunatley have to acess to them at the moment. SWIM has a few plants on the go but it will be a while before they're ready..if they don't get stolen like last years.

The only smoke I can get currently is hydro, and I know it's from a fairly hippie sort of source, your comments have given me cause for worry in addition to my previous worries about carninogenic effects of smoking.
 
As far as i know there is no way to test herb for pestacides or other adulterants that are cheap and available to the consumer. Make no mistake, this is common, especially with commercial hydro. Spider mites are huge problem for growers and are not easily fixed. Before anyone says..what about Neem oil, it's not that effective and i'm not convinced it's harmless when smoked anyway.

As a qualifying point however, i'm sick of people saying how hydro is so much stronger than outdoor herb, thats also garbage. The strongest herb i have smoked is outdoor organics, either Nevilles Haze, Original haze or Mullumbimby madness which leave any indoor strain i have tried for dead. Potency is determined by genetics and growing conditions. Hydro strains are generally of the indica genus which was developed for hashish production and they have a much shorter flowering cycle than sativa's which are a bitch to grow indoors. Sativa's tend to be trippy, laughing grass, indica's have a narcotic stone. Not more potent, just different.

I have been involved with cannabis for more than a few decades, my work has been published in High times, cannabis culture, The Cannabible 2 and various websites. I used to test grow for various dutch seed companies and have personally grown more than 250 different strains both indoor and outdoor. In my experience Hydro is not stronger than organic, either outdoor or indoor (yes you can grow hydro outside) but the narcotic effects of the indica strains lead people to think it is, plus it is usually well manicured so you get just pure buds, no leaf. Having judged the cannabis cup in Nimbin a few times i can say organic pot has always been preferred. An example is Blueberry, which was entered both hydro and organic, the organic won.

Basically the moral of this story is to refute that cannabis does not need to be tested (unfortunately i know of no tests available) and otherwise the safest bet is to grow a couple for yourself if you can.

Also respect to those that stand up for what they believe in and disrespect to try hard on line knockers who do nothing more than hide and preserve the status quo. Thats fine but dont diss the people who have the guts to stick their necks out.

Peace and pinot

PH
 
MazDan said:
I like the fact that he stands up for what he believes in and there was once a time when I believed that grass should be legalised but NOT anymore.

When I was a kid it was fairly harmless.

NOT anymore.

The stuff that the kids use nowadays is extremely potent and is doing serious harm to far to many of our youth.

Personally I rate it as getting right up there in terms of its danger potential........taking into account the fact its used heaps more than most other drugs and also the fact that everyone seems to consider it harmless..........BULLCRAP...........maybe once but not anymore.

Nowadays if put to a vote then I would vote NO to legalisation of grass.

However there are quite a few other drugs I would vote Yes to such as mdma.
I don't follow your logic. How does keeping cannabis illegal help anything here?

Also, even if cannabis is more potent nowadays, it just means I have to smoke less to get my desired effect. If others didn't apply this same logic, you'd have people drinking schooners of vodka instead of shots.
 
thanks for your informative posts pinothippy. If someone can tell us what types of insecticides are used (active chemical constituents), I'll see if a test exists. These chems are possibly organophosphates and tests exist for most of these chemicals. The pyrethroids may also be used. These are synthetic analogues of pyrethrum and some are more toxic than others to humans.

I absolutely agree on the hydro/ versus organic strength argument and have intended to take this up with my esteemed colleague drplatypus.

Most organic growers I've met or heard of have long ago switched to specific strains. Consensus among experienced smokers seems to be that good organic strains are generally just as potent, if not more potent than hydro strains.
 
Anyone who knows the town know the kids that sell dope in the lane get supplys from various growers and add a surcharge to make some dollars.

Ok, so the growers are selling to kids (dealers) and the kids are adding a surcharge. I dunno mate, I wouldn't want my PRE teen son selling drugs to drug users. Something not quite right there.

No, I don't know anyone that lives in Nimbin. Like a lot of people, I've visited a couple of times to see whats going on. When I first visited 6 years ago it was a pretty cool place. Lots of friendly faces and interesting conversation. The last couple of times I've visited I've seen junkies on the streets and lots of aggro. Basically the atmosphere seems to have changed from a relaxed and friendly hippy town to a dirty aggresive school yard.

As for pot needing testing, something PD didn't mention but IS common practice is hydro growers using flea bombs to get rid of spidermites during the flowering cycle. This stuff WILL give you cancer. No two ways about it. Think about it, you've got potenially 60k worth of heads 2 weeks into flower, get a mite explosion, what do you do (thinking as the average bigger than personal use hydro grower) ... use hardcore chems to erradicate the mites. Anyone who thinks this is not common practise has no knowledge of the buisiness. Pot just aint pot anymore. Sure if you have access to quality outdoor organic herb no problems but what about the cities, 95% of the herb is hydro, not dried properly and covered in pesticides. All because of prohibition.

Fair enough, thats some interesting information. It would be wrong to assume that buds are purely organic. I expect a fair degree of pesticides however was not aware of flea bombs being used. Another reason to grow your own. Are you saying that wihout prohibition there would be no pesticides used?

Cheers to the brave man from Nimbin, who i actually know and no, he's no redneck. Put your brain in gear before spurting out uniformed garbage. YOU are as bad if not worse than John Laws, as you should know better.

I apoligise for calling him a redneck. That really was an off the cuff comment that really should be reserved for racist white Americans.
*Shifts brain into gear*
However, brave??? How about dumb? It's one thing to make a stand, it's another to continually flout laws just to prove a point. Sooner or later your mate is going to end up in prison for not paying his fines and walking around court rooms with dope plants. I applaud him for wanting to challenge the laws, but doing things that only make himself look like an idiot aren't going to do anyone any good. What use will he be sitting in prison or being forced to pay a massive fine? Do you honestly think what he's doing is having ANY positive effect a marajuana law???

I think a better way is to petition for a referendum. A LOT of people smoke pot.

I might seem to be a new poster here, but i'm not.. just a new username due to some heat i felt a while back. I lived in the Rainbow region for many years and i hate too see such uninformed crap posted by people who know FA.

I have been involved with cannabis for more than a few decades, my work has been published in High times, cannabis culture, The Cannabible 2 and various websites. I used to test grow for various dutch seed companies and have personally grown more than 250 different strains both indoor and outdoor.

After reading your latest post it appears that you definitely possess some valuble information regarding pot. It will be good to share in your wealth of knowledge, however I would probably leave out the bit where you tell the "heat" that you've grown over 250 strains.

IMO, what your mate did was stupid. Thats my opinion only and I respect where you and others are coming from. I just think you're wrong ;) .

On the positive, I'm glad I originally posted as it got you out of the woodwork and I'm sure you have plenty of interesting info to give. :)
 
Interesting discussion, cheers for the input pinothippy :)

Not ever been to Nimbin so I couldn't comment on some things said but its good to see someone stand up for what they beleive in and challenge the system.
 
EJ said:
I don't follow your logic. How does keeping cannabis illegal help anything here?

Also, even if cannabis is more potent nowadays, it just means I have to smoke less to get my desired effect. If others didn't apply this same logic, you'd have people drinking schooners of vodka instead of shots.


I see where your coming from...........I guess what I am saying is that I dont believe it is a safe drug anymore...............there is far to high an incidence of serious problems arising from its abuse and it seems that there are very few who are able to simply use this drug.
 
I agree that it should remain illigal.

Iv seen all different sorts of drug use. But how many stoners does everyone know? Just about everyone knows a stoner. And iv seen some of them go crazy. Im yet to see this from something like MDMA.

If he want's to smoke pot then fine it doesn't bother me, I just don't want you smoking it in the mall.
 
I know far more sane stoners that insane ones. Sure, i know some crazy ones, but i also know some crazy junkies, and some crazy normal people and some crazy candy ravers. I fail to see how keeping marijuana illegal is a public health issue. As we all know, people can get it relatively easily.

I am sure that if personal marijuana use were to be legalised, there would still be conditions around it. It's almost as if people expect that legalisation of weed, and any drug for that matter, will lead to some drug free-for-all 8)
 
MazDan said:
I see where your coming from...........I guess what I am saying is that I dont believe it is a safe drug anymore...............there is far to high an incidence of serious problems arising from its abuse and it seems that there are very few who are able to simply use this drug.
Personally, I don't believe there was ever a time when cannabis was totally safe, but that's drugs for ya.

static_mind said:
I agree that it should remain illigal.

Iv seen all different sorts of drug use. But how many stoners does everyone know? Just about everyone knows a stoner. And iv seen some of them go crazy. Im yet to see this from something like MDMA.

If he want's to smoke pot then fine it doesn't bother me, I just don't want you smoking it in the mall.
Your first and last sentence kind of conflict with eachother. You don't mind if someone smokes in private, yet it should remain illegal? For what purpose then? With current cigarette smoking restrictions, there's no reason to believe cannabis smokers would be allowed to smoke where ever they please if use became legal.

My stance is very simple. When I look at the negatives of drugs in today's world, i'm looking at any health problems, as well as the black market and all the associated crime that goes with it. Prohibition does nothing to fix these negatives. In actuality, it either exacerbates any problem or is outright the cause of it. Drug-related health issues should not be criminal, what does it help besides fattening the pockets of certain authorities?
 
there is far to high an incidence of serious problems arising from its abuse and it seems that there are very few who are able to simply use this drug.

While I don't doubt for a minute that some cases of psychosis are associated with marijuana use, I'm not so sure it can be generalised that the root cause of such conditions is solely attributable to the drug. I've known many pot users over the years, with several of my class mates being daily users of strong pot for over 30 years. No one from this group has suffered such conditions and all lead very regular lives.

I see it as a bit of a chicken and egg case. What we have to ask ourselves is whether or not a pre-existing psychological condition may make one more susceptible to self medicating with a drug like marijuana and whether in some of these cases, the drug has a more negative affect.

While smoking obviously carries associated risks of emphysema etc, I believe prolonged MDMA use carries a higher risk of depression and other medical conditions. I could argue this all day, but I also appreciate that everyone has a different story - a real life account that affects their view.

However, I dispute somewhat the argument concerning stronger forms of pot. The first pot we smoked in NZ was mainly Thai Buddha sticks which were around for years. This shit was easily as strong if not stronger than the better hydro varieties of today and we were pigs ;) However, one notable exception to the users of today was that we never smoked at work. We'd smoke most every night and at the weekends, but Monday - Friday between 8-5 we didn't. Of course residual effects meant we were effectively stoned all the time. But we prided ourselves at not being deadbeat stoners, and got shit done. Getting stoned was never an excuse for being slack. Whether this attitude made any difference or not is impossible to say.

In regards to acute problems suffered by users; from working at the coalface of harm reduction I can say that we have far less marijuana related interventions compared to MDMA related ones. Marijuana related problems are usually confined to first time use, whereas MDMA related interventions are seen in experienced as well as inexperienced users.

For the predisposed, risk of developing acute problems leading to life threatening conditions is definitely higher with MDMA than for marijuana, although due to increased pulse and BP, marijuana is not completely safe in this regard.

An interesting point regarding route of administration and dose response; while dose response for MDMA is much less sharp than for drugs such as GHB, heroin etc, MDMA can be consumed in high enough quantities to increase risk substantially. The same can't really be said for smoking dope. The amount of bioactive THC which reaches the brain from smoking is markedly reduced over time. It helps to explain why a single toke can produce much the same affect as smoking several joints.
 
Just a few other comments, i am completely retired from the herb scene, i very rarely ever smoke anymore, never possess illegal drugs so i'm not to worried if the police want to waste their time on me.
As for the comments on mdma being safer than weed, from my experience i'd say thats not correct nor based on any evidence. I smoked weed for over 25 years everyday from morning to night, always held down good jobs and apart from developing a bong cough( my advice is use a vapouriser or smoke spliffs, or better yet if you have the ability to make it smoke bubblehash in spots in a pipe) i didn't really experience too many negative effects apart from being psychogically addicted which sucked.
As for my mdma experience, i've probably had 2000+ pills, mainly mdma powder in caps and this helped cause a case of severe depression which i'm now seeing the backside of. The herb may have also played a part in this but the years of caning mdma is in my mind the major factor. I now no longer touch mdma, i had some great times and i have no regrets but i can see the dark side of mdma. It's not crack or ice but it's not harmless, it would be foolish to believe it was.

PD, not sure what chemicals are used in flea bombs, but another popular miticide is Kelthane, a very nasty chem. Spider mites generally are not a problem outside as natural predators such as lady beetles keep them in check. Growrooms however are a spidermite paradise. Just remember that juicy looking hydro bud might be hiding some nasty residue before you decide to toke. Also many hydro growers do not flush their crops properly. The last 3 weeks of flowering should be just on pure water, but most growers use flowering ferts and enhancers right up till picking day. The plants store these salts in the leaves and flowers, so your also smoking lots of possibly nasty unused ferts. If you get ugly grey ash in your cone, bets are it wasn't flushed.

Stay safe.

PH
 
I've always felt the effects/benefits of flushing were overstated. In my opinion, so long as you're not over-fertilising, there is nothing wrong with feeding plants right up 'till harvest. That of course requires that you're familiar with the plants' needs, which could slightly vary from strain to strain.

Most of my opinion was formed by a good FAQ on OverGrow before it went under. It's a bit long to copy/paste here, but this is it's summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing.
 
Yes drying and curing is very important. Any mould on pot can also cause serious health problems. I still believe in flushing, from my experience it always resulted in a superior product. Still thats just a laymans opinion, as is the overgrow FAQ.
 
pinothippy: nice to hear from someone with your level of practical experience. Also, having grown up in the Tweed, it's always nice to talk to someone who actually has a clue about Nimbin and the region in general. The people who just drive through the town when they're looking to score tend to see it as just a supply source and not a community. I was up that way recently, having spent the day bush-walking and in need of a coffee, and was very happy to see the villiage clean and friendly (though with a few show-off-mobiles with QLD plates, none-the-less).

I don't disagree with this man's actions. Some of you are decrying his stupidity for doing something with quite negative (to our 'mainstream' opinions) repercussions. But consider for a moment that you had a different value system: one where your beliefs are worth more to you than the legal consequenses of those beliefs. Working from such a view-point, it makes sense to engage in public protest as this man has done.

Personally, I take my (metaphorical) hat off to him. I truly admire peole who are willing to publicly stand up for the beliefs I share with them. Sadly, on a personal level I value my career more than my recreational drug use and associated beliefs, so I will never (likely) be willing to accept the consequences that this man is. (I work in a small, scientific field that is still somewhat conservative, despite a colleague telling me that she was intending to consume "philosopher's stone" shrooms this weekend!)

More power to those with the conviction of their beliefs!

:)smiley
 
Man in court over cannabis charge
August 23, 2007 - 2:34PM

A 39-year-old Nimbin man is standing trial for allegedly taking a cannabis plant into a Brisbane court.

Peter Till claims his decision to take the 90cm-tall plant into the Brisbane Magistrates Court on January 8, 2007, was not unlawful as he was planning to tender it as evidence in an unrelated court matter.

However the crown, who has charged him with one count of possession of a dangerous drug, said current Queensland legislation forbade him from doing so.

The Brisbane Magistrates Court heard on Thursday that Till used a yellow sack to carry the plant into the court complex, and that it was discovered and seized by security guards after he put it on the security x-ray machine's conveyor belt.

He was arrested later that afternoon.

Till, who is self-represented, told the court he was on a disability pension and the court is expected to hear later that he uses the drug for medicinal purposes to relieve pain.

The summary trial continues.

SMH
 
Nimbin man brings marijuana to court
Christine Kellett
August 23, 2007 - 1:09PM

A diasbled pensioner who allegedly tried to take a marijuana plant into a Brisbane courthouse to use as evidence in his drugs case has accused authorities of denying him natural justice.

Peter Till, 39, of Nimbin on the far north coast of New South Wales, was charged after putting the 90cm-tall plant through an x-ray machine at the entrance to the Brisbane Magistrates Court on January 8.

Security staff seized the plant, which was seen poking out of the top of a stock feed bag, before calling police.

Till was taken into custody and charged with the unlawful possession a dangerous drug.

At his trial this morning, Till, who has pleaded not guilty and is representing himself, argued he had simply exercised his legal right to defend himself by bringing the cannabis to court as evidence in an unrelated matter.

"I'm entitled to natural justice as far as I know," Till said.

"Like the police ... I'm allowed to bring my evidence.

"I have a legal right to tell the judiciary they are wrong."

In a passionate submission to the court, a dreadlocked and barefoot Till also accused police of lying and being heavy handed in their decision to lock him in the Brisbane Watchhouse following his arrest.

"I stand out a bit. That's why I get discriminated against."

He is expected to argue later today that he uses the drug for pain relief and medicinal purposes.

The hearing continues.

Brisbane Times
 
SMH - 09/01/07 said:
Man caught with cannabis plant in court

...Security officers said they seized the 50cm-tall cannabis plant at a screening machine in the Brisbane Magistrates Court's entry foyer on Monday...

SMH - 23/08/07 said:
Man in court over cannabis charge

...Peter Till claims his decision to take the 90cm-tall plant into the Brisbane Magistrates Court on January 8, 2007, was not unlawful as he was planning to tender it as evidence in an unrelated court matter....
Good to know they've been feeding it and shit.
 
EJ said:
Good to know they've been feeding it and shit.
Snap!!.... lol... Dosnt seem that well though;) They should have scroged it;)
 
Fucking good on him. Fuck the pigs and judicial system, who the fuck are they to tell us that we cant smoke a plant. My life, my body, ill do what i want. How pathetic.

Peter Till for PM. =D
 
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