NEWS: News.com.au - 2/2/09 'Girl dies of Big Day Out drug overdose'

[static_mind]

Focusing in and blaming the police & their dogs 100% for what happened isn't looking at the big picture - it wont fix anything!

Sure it will. If the police back down with their dogs then we wont have people knecking all of their drugs at once at the gate.

 

[kingpin007]

Blame is placed on police cause they act like nazis..

They can be heavy handed and grab you by the neck and take you somewhere for strip search and or just do that in front everyone making you feel like a bank robber or something & this is why people dump what they have because most people are intimidated and scared shitless of police especially because 50% of them assault and threaten people everyday.

If Sniffer dogs were trained ONLY to detect larger amounts of drugs instead of small amounts then this would not have happened.These dogs can be trained for this so hopefully it maybe looked at.

There is one option that no one has thought of or mentioned here is if your at an event and you spot the sniffers coming your way then simply get them out pop one or two ( what ever you know you can handle) .. and whoever is around you just hand them out .. chances are people around you are your friends so who fucking cares .. they will owe you a few drinks inside to cover it ... anyhow there are always way around then just tripple dropping & putting yourself at risk. This girl just did not think to hand the pills out to her friends who were around her when she dropped all three.

other option of course is to throw them right at ya feet and step on them and rub it into the concrete ...

 

[filenet]

Sure it will. If the police back down with their dogs then we wont have people knecking all of their drugs at once at the gate.

yeah sure! its the same as putting a bandaid on a sore! It looks like nothing is there, that there is no problem but guess what! it may look all ok but the sore is still there!

The problem is not because of the dogs - its goes way beyond that - if you want to fix the problem then look beyond the dogs and not just blame the police and leave it at that!

ok - even I'm getting bored at repeating myself!

RIP

 

[static_mind]

atm were not talking about the entire drug problem. Were talking about people necking drugs on site of the dogs. Taking the dogs away will stop this.

Care to explain how takeing away the dogs wont stop people necking all their pills at once?

 

[swilow]

yeah sure! its the same as putting a bandaid on a sore! It looks like nothing is there, that there is no problem but guess what! it may look all ok but the sore is still there!

The problem is not because of the dogs - its goes way beyond that - if you want to fix the problem then look beyond the dogs and not just blame the police and leave it at that!

ok - even I'm getting bored at repeating myself!

RIP

AHHHH, so many exclamation marks! I can't handle it!

Anyway, this is a direct result of drugs being illegal. Break the fucking rules and die, or play by them and die. Wee.

So sorry for this young lady being killed by her government. Hwever, I don't really care if anyone is at fault; the entire system is incorrect, this drug law crap being one part of it. Its time to change. We live in a world where we have moral laws, thanks to our hearty god above and his odd fetishes; and the saddest part is that, in Australia at least, most people agree with the status quo, and would agree that all drugs should always be illegal. Its an uphill battle that cannot be won in the system we reside in.

 

[phase_dancer]

and the saddest part is that, in Australia at least, most people agree with the status quo, and would agree that all drugs should always be illegal. Its an uphill battle that cannot be won in the system we reside in.

In part due to propaganda. Trouble is, it's kinda illegal to present as someone who recommends illicit drug use, and any attempt to water down the governments anti-drug stance is usaully twisted to look like condoning and encouraging.

That's why so many academics don't speak out, and why individual candidates are usually short lived. So then, we have to find centre stage via an unguarded back door....

 

[hoptis]

The police have known for years that this was a possible outcome of using sniffer dogs at events like this, they have been warned for many years but they either didn't believe it could happen, or they don't care enough about the lives of drug users to change their tactics.

I directly blame the WA police and the politicians who support these policies. If nothing else, they're guilty of mindlessly following their counterparts in NSW and Victoria who started using sniffer dogs in this manner a few years ago. All of this is nothing short of a blatant PR exercise that has now resulted in the tragic death of a young girl who had her whole life ahead of her.

If you think this is just mindless cop-bashing, read some of my previous comments about police in this forum. Regardless of my personal beliefs on drug policy I have a healthy respect for the police, the work they do and the rule of law (drug law aside).

I spent an hour on Sunday night talking to a lovely Constable at St Jerome's Laneway festival in Melbourne when the crowd started getting out of hand and I feel for them, having to cop abuse and aggression from mindless yobs when most of their work is done with our safety and security in mind.

That said, any police officer who works in one of these dog squads has to be in denial if they can say they see anything worthwhile coming from their work. Spending week after week every summer busting kids for a handful of pills each... you only have to look at the comments and questions that get posted here all summer to realise that rarely are those who get caught deterred in any way from using illicit drugs.

 

[hoptis]

Friends grieve on Facebook after BDO overdose death
Tim Clarke and Liam Phillips
February 3, 2009 - 9:59AM

Grief ... Gemma Thoms.

Friends of 17-year-old Gemma Thoms, who died from a drug overdose at Perth's Big Day Out, have poured out their grief on social networking site Facebook.

Gemma died in hospital on Sunday night after passing out during the music festival on Sunday.

Witnesses said she took several ecstasy tablets before entering the festival's gates after she spotted police searching people for drugs.

She passed out soon after in 36 degree heat and was rushed to Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital, where she was pronounced dead overnight.

A group set up to mourn the young apprentice hairdresser, named BDO 09 Tragedy - R.I.P Gemma Thoms, has already attracted some heartfelt postings.

"This beautiful girl made one mistake that cost her her life," the group's administrator Deanne J Prus writes in an introduction.

"I don't believe everyone that overdoses are drug addicts & I'm sure her friends & family will confirm that this sweet girl was nothing like that.

"This is a group to remember Gemma & leave your kind words for her family & remember her."

Friend Bec Doolan's post epitomised the shock felt at Gemma's tragic death. "Holy snap! 3 tablets at a time *shocked*. WHY?! RIP Sweetie xxoo."

Fellow poster Kirsy Simpson echoed the grief. "So sad, there was no need for her to go this way!!!"

The group has also attracted people who didn't know Gemma, but were no less moved by her tragic death.

"I don't know this girl from a bar of soap but this has really upset me," Tim Philp posted.

He used the occasion to lash out at the WA Police for their involvement in the death. The police launched a major drug surveillance operation at the Big Day Out and arrested dozens for drug possession and other offences.

"The WA police need to take some of the responsibility for the death of the girl at the perth BDO," Tim writes.

"Nobody forced her to take the pills, but to not see this coming is pure ignorance. Busting someone with 5 pills at a concert does NOTHING to contribute to the wellbeing and safety of society.

"If the NSW and Vic Police want to put otherwise law abiding citizens thru this crap so be it. It made me proud that Perth cops left the heavy handed approach to recreational drug users to their eastern state counterparts.

"All this appraoch (sic) has acheived (sic) is the tragic death of a young girl and done absolutely nothing to make perth a safer place."

watoday.com.au

 

[hoptis]

Drug victim was mistaken if she feared sniffer dogs: police
February 3, 2009 - 2:48PM

No sniffer dogs were being used at the entrance to the Big Day Out music festival where overdose victim Gemma Thoms reportedly swallowed several ecstasy tablets, police say.

Ms Thoms, a 17-year-old trainee hairdresser, died after collapsing in 36-degree heat at the festival, held at Perth's Claremont Showground on Sunday.

Her friends have told police that before entering the venue, she panicked and swallowed three ecstasy tablets she was carrying because she feared the drugs would be detected by police dogs.

NSW Greens MP Sylvia Hale on Tuesday said she had repeatedly warned governments about the likelihood of a death similar to that of Ms Thoms if sniffer dogs continued to be used at such events.

She said a 2006 report by the NSW Ombudsman had concluded the dogs were ineffective.

But West Australian police said Ms Thoms had nothing to fear as there were no drug detection dogs at the festival, apart from dogs being used by railway police at the Showground rail station.

"There may have been a perceived fear of being detected," Inspector Wayne Silver told AAP.

"But she certainly did not see any dogs at the entrance to the venue as has been reported.

"The only dogs were being used by rail police at the Showground rail station - in the forecourt of that.

"Nowhere else were they used at the ground and at no other entrance to the ground.

"Ms Thoms was dropped off by a relative at the main entrance where there were absolutely no detection dogs, nor was she ever in the line waiting to get searched."

Insp Silver said Ms Thoms was understood to have taken ecstasy before her arrival at the venue, and that her friends had indicated she feared the other tablets she was carrying would be detected.

"But I think we have to shift the focus away from this issue (of drug detection dogs)," Insp Silver said.

"We seized 145 amphetamine tablets (at the venue) that day ... does that mean other people didn't take too many and that there were no other overdoses?"

Premier Colin Barnett said Ms Thoms' death was "very sad" and extended his sympathy to her family.

"But the only protection against drugs is not to use them and the police did the right thing in inspecting and trying to detect illicit drugs," Mr Barnett told Fairfax News Radio.

"... it is the scourge of the modern society.

"Sure there was all this sort of flower power, let's give it a go in the 1970s. I think now, 30 years on, people are conscious of the real implications of ... of putting toxic chemicals into your body. It kills."

Julie Jeffery, the owner of the hair dressing salon where Ms Thoms worked, said she was a "wonderful girl" who was loved by her workmates and clients.

After leaving school upon completing Year 11 last year, she had shone as an apprentice hairdresser, Ms Jeffery said.

"She is not a druggie, she has just made a terrible mistake," she told The West Australian newspaper.

Many contributions have been made to a group set up for friends of Ms Thoms on the Facebook social networking site.

"This beautiful girl made one mistake that cost her her life," the group's administrator Deanne J Prus writes.

"I don't believe everyone that overdoses are drug addicts & I'm sure her friends & family will confirm that this sweet girl was nothing like that."

AAP

WA Today

 

[hoptis]

WA Civil Liberties lash out at use of sniffer dogs
Joseph Sapienza
February 3, 2009 - 11:08AM

The Council for Civil Liberties of Western Australia has lashed out at the use of sniffer dogs, claiming money would be better spent on education and preventative programs to change people's attitudes on dangerous substances.

The call comes after police sniffer dogs were patrolling the train station and entrance to the Claremont Showground for the Big Day Out on Sunday.

A 17-year-old Kalamunda girl, Gemma Thoms, died yesterday morning from a drug overdose after witnesses say she swallowed several pills to avoid being caught by police at the festival gates.

The president of the CCLWA, Peter Weygers, said the council opposed the use of sniffer dogs, claiming they did not reduce the use of illicit drugs.

"We oppose the whole population being put under scrutiny by sniffer dogs," he said.

"It obviously hasn't prevented this tragic death by having dogs.

"They didn't and won't stop people and addicts taking drugs.

"They will just do it.

"All this scrutiny is for the sake of those few who are going to take them."

Mr Weygers said the money used for sniffer dogs and random breath testing facilities on roads - that he believed were failing to cut the number of deaths on WA roads - would be better spent on education and prevention programs to change people's attitudes about drugs and alcohol.

"Such preventative programs will be better with that kind of money," he said.

"The sniffer dogs do establish probable cause (that someone may be carrying illegal substances) but the whole population has to be under that scrutiny which isn't fair.

"It just doesn't prevent people carrying them."

He said the Council "in no way condoned people taking illegal drugs" and strongly recommended no one should take them.

"It's a very sad state of affairs that in the community so many people feel the need to break the law and carry and take so-called recreational drugs," he said.

He urged people to know their rights when being approached by sniffer dogs in the future.

WA Today

 

[hoptis]

Reader comments on WA Today

* b
* February 03, 2009
* 09:06 AM

Laws are made to protect us.

The law says drugs are illegal.

Despite the law, people take drugs.

Using sniffer dogs to enforce drug laws led to this girl taking an overdose of drugs.

Neither the law nor the enforcement of it was any 'deterrent' to this girl taking drugs.

But the law and its enforcement have definitely contributed to her death.

Perhaps the law and the enforcement of it needs to be reviewed as it seems to be failing in its primary purpose.

* Leonard
* February 03, 2009
* 09:23 AM

I agree with Brian (February 03, 2009 08:44 AM). It's about time society woke up and realised that the use of recreational drugs such as ecstasy does far less damage then certain legal drugs, such as alcohol and tobacco. The fact is that the use of these drugs has been so demonised that it is impossible for most people to wrap their minds around the fact that there is no empirical or scientific research that proves that the use of pure MDMA (the supposed only ingredient in ecstasy) causes death or brain damage or people to go on killing sprees or jump out of freaking windows or whatever it is we are lead to believe. I, for one, do not blame the police for this tragedy. I blame the prohibition of ecstasy, and it's about time something was done to lift the stigma attached to its use and the Government became proactive in trying to establish a legitimate way for people to obtain and safely use MDMA.

* Ty Co
* February 03, 2009
* 02:48 PM

Any who seeks to blame the police or condone the "responsible" use of "recreational" drugs has obviously already suffered severe brain damage from their previous excesses.

There is no such thing as the "safe" use of drugs, there is always risk.

I would, therefore, suggest such people should stop now before they destroy the few remaining operational brain cells they may have.

All the justifications in the world from apologists for drug use will not bring Gemma back. But if she hadn't had the drugs in the first place, she would most certainly still be with her family and "friends".

On that point, I wonder which of her "friends" sold or supplied her with the drugs? I wonder which of her "friends" pointed out the "sniffer dogs" that sent her into a panic. I wonder if these "friends" are now assuaging their guilt by looking for every else to blame, except themselves.

Until people such as these grow to understand the basic concepts of personal responsibility and respect for human life more of these tragedies are sadly inevitable.

Nothing to do with the police and nothing to do with the so called "Mr Bigs" of the drug world.

Here is a brain snap for all the drug justifiers and apologists... if you stop using, "Mr Big" has no one left to sell too...and then there is no more "Mr Big"...

...And if you keep using, you, your friends, your family... you will all keep dying before your time, some quick, some slow...and you will never know who is next...because drugs do not discriminate, they just kill.

All the pretty words and sad sentiments on the whole of Facebook won't bring Gemma back.

Choose life... stay drug free... Pretty simple

Hear that people; it's simple. Just say no 8) ... it's been working for twenty years that's why no one ever dies from drug use these days.

 

[malakaix]

"... it is the scourge of the modern society.

I read this and instantly thought of all the violence alcohol cause's, all the death's cigarettes contribute too.

I had a packet of cigarettes at the BDO in Perth and on the packet it had 'Death's caused per year by: #1 Tobacco, #2 Alcohol #3 Something else #4 Illegal Drugs, #5 Murders

Tobacco was up there with something around 1700, whereas illegal drugs was at roughly 200.. i found it ironic that this was on the packet at all. They'll use sniffer dogs to stop me from taking drugs.. but hey GO AHEAD with your cigarettes, i actually was looking for a cop on the day so i could have a discussion with them about the label on the packet and such lol

 

[pink nike]

Can I ask, does pure clean MDMA make you shake and your lips turn blue? Ive never heard of that before I'd love to know what pill it was..
And maybe the ride gave her an adrenaline high?

Can I also add, Im around the age of this girl and teenagers are reckless and will act without thinking, god, we all dumped ours before we got in because we saw a police car! never doing that again. I think the police atleast need to have a "warmer" approach.. try to make themselves appear as people who are helping us, not trying to punish us straight out and think that will stop us.

 

[Bent Mk2]

Another great example is the outcome of the King Cross Safe Injecting Centre. Since its introduction 5 years ago there has been no reduction in heroin OD death rates in the local area. Why? because there are so many other direct/indirect factors that come into play!

I said it back then, safe injecting rooms wouldn't work. Drug taking is illegal and therefore there is automatically a distrust. People aren't going to wander into an area to shoot up, when they think cops are surrounding it. Particularly a bright, sterile environment that looks more like a prison library.

And of course there's the fact that drug users often don't recognise the danger might be immediate to them. 'I' don't need a safe room as I know what I'm doing.

 

[Jakeperson]

I know lots of people who ate all their drugs at the gate in fear of the police and their dogs. And I'm sure others of you do too.
I'm glad my friends are all still alive.

 

[malakaix]

I'm curious.. did ANYONE see/hear of or have a friend who was strip searched after been sniffed?

I've been wondering if the cops had this power at the Perth BDO.. since they only had the dogs at the train station, unless they had cleared out some room at the train station for strip searching.. if not, i cant see why people would risk putting it in there pocket or wallet where there's a higher chance of it been found. - Easier access, yes.. but the risk is pretty real there.

I actually put mine in my boxer-briefs (i didn't catch the train, because i knew they were going to setup there operation there, since they did it for the Summadayze event) i figured if i am sniffed by a dog.. and there not strip-searching.. i should be relatively safe.

That said, it seems like the good times are slowly slipping away.. and its becoming too risky to just enjoy myself anymore, think i'll stick to doofs and parties where i know i wont encounter any L.E and there mutts

 

[swilow]

Bongwater in waterpistols, hose down a crowd withit, dogs go nuts detecting drugs everywhere, everything fucks up for the police, people stay safe and have fun. Dreaming?

 

[tapout]

Bongwater in waterpistols, hose down a crowd withit, dogs go nuts detecting drugs everywhere, everything fucks up for the police, people stay safe and have fun. Dreaming?

You dont need to spray the people, just the ground near the entrance!

 

[Mr Blonde]

I had a packet of cigarettes at the BDO in Perth and on the packet it had 'Death's caused per year by: #1 Tobacco, #2 Alcohol #3 Something else #4 Illegal Drugs, #5 Murders

Yeah I think #3 is motor vehicle accidents.

Filenet, in response to a couple of posts about legalization you made a remark about how alcohol and tobacco are legal yet are our two biggest killers, with the implication that legalizing other drugs could lead to similar death rates. But what about their toxicity compared to some of the most commonly used illicit drugs? Alcohol has terrible long term consequences and when used irresponsibly can have devastating effects in the short term as well and I don't need to discuss tobacco, though I'm smoking a Marlboro Red right now.

But there isn't enough information, I believe, to show that if drugs like LSD, MDMA, marijuana, etc... were legalized that they would cause similar death rates to tobacco and alcohol. LSD is physically non-toxic, pure MDMA should take a decent amount to OD on unless you have a condition that predisposes you to undesirable effects (e.g. cardiac problems) and smoking marijuana has similar problems to tobacco, but there are increased methods of safer 'smoking' around these days, like electronic cigarettes, vaporizers, etc.

Hell, heroin, arguably the most addictive drug out there, is not going to cause you physical harm unless you OD on it.

The information level on those substances is not at the same point though that it is with alcohol and tobacco so no one can make claims on how they are going to effect the public in the long term.

/Off topic.

Phase_dancer: Great post. :D

I wonder if this tragedy is going to lead to a significant backlash against the dogs, such that their use is going to be cut back?

 

[beamers]

Dropping three at once just to not get busted doesn't seem worth it.

I've triple dropped strong pills before, being a 63kg male at the time and it is not an experience I would ever repeat. My nervous system started to pack it in and I couldn't control my legs properly along with uncontrollable shaking. It is something I'd never do again and do not recommend for anyone.