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NEWS: News.com.au - 2/2/09 'Girl dies of Big Day Out drug overdose'

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Thats Gold :)

i feel sorry for the girls family and friends as any death is not pleasant, i hope that this death does not become more ammunition fof anti drug activists- Like Tony Wood.

the longer people who take substances dont react the longer things will stay the same, if you want to change things do so in the public, spread the word.

it is a shame that the promoters and the police are creating circumstances like this everytime they have an event by increasing anxiety of people to the point where people in trouble no longer seek help.

the worst thing you can do is try to manage the situation yourself, unless you are a fully trained emergency doctor.

Once again better to be in shit and alive then dead and not in trouble
 
RIP you have contributed to a safer BDO and no sniffer dogs at events. You didn't die in vein.
peace
 
Ok so I watched the Today Tonight story ...

It showed the mother in tears and so on .. and her friend ..

What everyone has to realize is illegal drugs are a risk and especially if your not used to taking them in higher doses and if your in an hot environment then you be VERY careful.

The step father of the girl is an emergency worker and said the volunteer medics waited too long before getting proper help.

I'm sad this girl died but this will happen again especially with the police/government attitudes of standing their ground and saying they will be in force at next years big day outs ..

Hopefully it will not be in vein. Fucking what do they expect a drug found on u and a criminal record could fuck someones life.
options are eat ya drugs at the door or risk getting done.
Man there is rave safe, ambos, people looking out for people like 10 of thousands of people around eathcin helping with good drugs like mdma and good vibe everyone helps everyone. Police make a bad vibe and so do fense like perth the worst BDO of them all with security cunts and fense taking 10 times as long to get from one stage to another. I mean it get worst every year i so glad i went gold coast BDO. No cops just uncover ones busting dickhead drunks and violence leave drug USERS ALONE!
Police this death is on you
 
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^ In the Australian today, the WA Police Chief said at worst she could have expected a juvenile warning.

And apparently he is in a pub rock band.

ETA: And they are going to use amnesty bins at WA festivals from now on. I wonder if a BL'er was that talkback caller who started it?
 
I wonder if the cops are hurting more then they seem. Too pull the dogs out now would be an admission of guilt. Maybe they will phase them out when no one is looking. And the PR machine moves forth.

If I were Gemma's mum I would sue the police. I would do anything I could. I know nothing about her and yet im so so so angry about this. Festivals comeing up. Might set up signs to grab the public and media attention. Police+dogs=death and stuff. This cant be left to die down. It needs to be highly visable. They want to flaunt then we can do it back.
 
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ETA: And they are going to use amnesty bins at WA festivals from now on. I wonder if a BL'er was that talkback caller who started it?

the policy officer from aivl many years ago (2002) bought this to the attention of the federal governemtn talking about the efficacy f these ideas. They have been in the UK for ages where people who are busted with drugs are given the opportunity to drop there substances into a bin rather than have the police be called in.

sure there were a few clubs exploiting this, but for the drugs that got to police labs, they were analysed and a few Bunk / dangerous substance warnings occured due to this.
 
Yes, it's that headline again but in this case the article is worth a read.

The agony of ecstasy
Gregor Stronach

It's hard not to be sad when someone dies young. It's completely natural for there to be an outpouring of grief - and when the death is a public one, it necessarily follows that there will be some level of public mourning.

But when the death in question - in this case, 17-year-old Gemma Thoms - is ecstasy-related, the grief machine gets put into overdrive. Is it because of the relative rarity of ecstasy-related deaths that such stories get the kind of hyperbolic press they do? Or can it be put down to a twisted version of Missing White Girl Syndrome?

As always in these tragic cases, the TV shows and radio talkback runs white-hot. And, as always, opinion is divided as to whose fault this all was.

It was sadly inevitable that Tony Wood - the father of 15-year-old Anna Wood who died in similar circumstances in 1995 - would bob up and stick his oar in to the debate. I feel for the guy - while I've never lost a child, I've lost more than a couple of friends to drugs over the years, one of whom was murdered in cold blood. It's not an easy thing to deal with.

But I feel that Tony is altogether far too close to problem to be an effective campaigner. I can only hope that he was misquoted on the Channel 7 website when he complained that the police were spending too much time focusing on speeding and alcohol - two of the biggest killers in Australia - instead of combating the reprehensible scourge of ecstasy use.

Priorities are important things. And I suggest that if Tony really wants to be a part of the debate on drug control, he might want to get his sorted out.

On the flip side of the authoritarian and mindlessly ineffective 'zero tolerance' approach is the growing voice that has put the blame for Gemma Thom's death on the shoulders of the police. It is, in my opinion, one of the most heinous examples of a straw man argument in a public debate I have ever seen.

I quote LiveNews.com columnist Tim Brunero's thought-provoking piece on the subject. "So instead of monstering children with killer dogs when they go out, perhaps it's time to consider another approach." That quote is from an article entitled "Did sniffer dogs kill this Perth teenager?"

The answer to Brunero's question is an unequivocal "no".

Gemma Thoms did not die because there were sniffer dogs at the Perth Big Day Out. She died because she took three pills at once on a hot day, without thinking about - or perhaps even knowing - the potential consequences.

Brunero's argument that we need to change the laws to stop from turning "the kids" into criminals is putting the cart before the horse. The laws are there to stop the bulk of the population from hurting themselves with dangerous chemical compounds. Making these drugs legal - or even decriminalising them - will only result in wider-spread drug use.

It's the least-ideal solution to the current problem: more drugs in the hands of inexperienced young folks who are poorly-educated in their use and abuse is a recipe for widespread disaster.

This debate, then, should not be about police tactics, police resources or even the laws themselves. The discussion we need to be having, as a nation, is about personal responsibility - something that seems to be lacking in almost every position other than the heartless "she did this to herself so she's only got herself to blame" that we're hearing from the anonymous talkback heroes in the 'burbs.

Let me draw an analogy here: Anyone who partakes in a personally risky endeavour has to realise and acknowledge that they are putting themselves in a position of danger. And with that danger comes an elevated requirement for personal responsibility. If someone decided to leap from an aeroplane on their own with no sky-diving training, I'm sure the bulk of the population would agree that they were solely responsible for their actions, should they plummet to earth and die in a crater.

But according to some commentators, when a teenager decides to down three pills with little or no understanding of what those pills will do to her, the argument ceases to be about her personal responsibility and becomes an issue of heavy-handed policing or draconian law-making.

To tackle the "drug problem", the drugs themselves need to be understood. The culture surrounding those drugs needs to be understood. And the people who take those drugs need to be understood. But most of all, the people who are going to be taking those drugs need to understand what they are going to be doing to their bodies.

Recently in New South Wales, a pamphlet was produced by the Sydney West Area Health Service and was set to be distributed to Year 9 and 10 students. Called Choosing to Use, it set out in plain language what young people - the ones most likely to be experimenting with drugs - should expect to encounter if they choose to get high, and how to deal with the potential problems that can - and do - occur. It was precisely what young people need to know.

The NSW government had every single copy of the pamphlet pulped, after someone complained that the information in the pamphlet might encourage young people to try drugs.

I hate to be Captain Obvious here, but young people don't need to be encouraged to take drugs. From my own observations over the years, young people seem to be doing a bang-up job of motivating themselves along that particular course of action.

Miranda Devine - columnist for the Sydney Morning Herald - got hold of the story, went straight to the anti-drug lobby for a rent-a-quote on the topic and came blustering out of her corner, throwing punch after punch at the "harm minimisation lobby".

By using disingenuous logic, she managed to equate harm minimisation with legalisation, thereby demonising anyone and everyone who dare walk the harm minimisation line.

So with social commentators telling everyone who will listen that harm minimisation tactics will put syringes into the arms of every precious snowflake exposed to its message, and a government so appallingly frightened of being seen to be anything other than zero-tolerance, the burden of educating young folks on the reality of drug use is left to fall by the wayside.

So to whom should the burden of education fall? Clearly, parents should shoulder some of it - after all, their children are in their care until they become adults. But we clearly can't expect any useful form of educational help from schools or the government.

Until governments and schools come to their senses and understand that the education concerning drugs that they are giving the children in their care is misguided at best, and downright dangerous policy at its worst, I suggest this:

Drug users need to educate each other. If no one else is going to teach young people about what can go wrong and what to do if something does, then it's up to the members of the community who do understand to teach those around them. For the most part, drug use is a fairly communal thing - particularly with ecstasy.

It's a very rare case indeed of someone taking ecstasy on their own - normally it's with at least one other person.

If neither of those people know what they're doing, it's a potential disaster. If one person knows the lay of the land, it can still go badly wrong. But if everyone involved is well-versed on how to deal with an immediate health crisis - and is given the knowledge that if something happens, they can call an ambulance without an automatic appearance by the police, then the likelihood of another completely needless death is drastically reduced.

I can't help but wonder - if Gemma Thoms knew what she was doing, would she be dead today? I doubt it. Most people who regularly take pills know that consuming ecstasy involves siginificant risk, that consuming it in hot weather is especially dangerous, and that taking three at once in the middle of a heat wave is tantamount to throwing yourself under a bus and hoping that you'll emerge unscathed.

So if the government wants to bury its head in the sand and pretend that zero tolerance is working, then let it. If teachers don't want to get in trouble for providing young people with the information they need in order to survive, then let them sit on their hands. And if parents want to believe that their straight-A student or rebellious teenager isn't dabbling with drugs, then let them.

And let the drug users - those who know and understand the highs and lows of their chosen recreation - educate each other. That's where the responsibility for education should lie.

Let us all, please, be realistic about this issue - even if it's just for a moment.

Fact: a percentage of young people are going to take drugs.

Fact: a percentage of the young people who do take drugs will encounter an immediate and potentially lethal situation while they are doing so.

Fact: Denying them the information that could save their lives, because of the fallacious argument that it might be seen as encouraging them to take drugs, is the real crime.

ABC
 
^ very well written and balanced article. Hats off to the journo - we need more of this journalism and less of Miranda Devines dribble...
 
News reports are indicating she took green hearts. I can think of two green hearts that have gone round perth recently, one with a heart "outline", the other more or a heart "press".

Anyone had a bad experience with either?

im fairly small (48kg) and i double dropped green hearts with an outline a little while back. I thought they were pretty good and seemed clean enough to me. 3 of the ones i took wouldnt have killed someone i don't think.

imho she hadnt done her research on how to stay safe taking pills. It's very sad for all her family and friends that because of this oversight she's dead... but it's stupid to put the blame on anyone other than her. Ecstasy related deaths are so rare but the media always sensationalises these stories, distorting the public opinion on ecstasy. It sucks that it's deemed appropriate for police and the media to misinform the general public of the dangers of ecstasy when most people are sensible in their usage.

I came across an article in the West Australian about Gemma Thoms and the journo said she took "Methamphetamine, commonly known as ecstasy." I mean fuck.. they could at least get the drug right. methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is safer and less addictive than meth. To say that ecstasy is meth is just stupid and wrong.
 
im fairly small (48kg) and i double dropped green hearts with an outline a little while back. I thought they were pretty good and seemed clean enough to me. 3 of the ones i took wouldnt have killed someone i don't think.

According to today tonight they said she litrally cooked from the inside out so it sounds like heat exhaustion which could of been avoided, any coroners report yet? With proper unbiased drug education their would of been a good chance she would still be alive today.
 
^ i wouldnt believe a word of what today tonight says (or a current affair, or miranda devine for that matter). overheating is certainly very possible but i will only believe that if the coroner not today tonight says that
 
What needs to be remembered is the affect MDMA has on the hypothalamus. This gland is involved in regulating body temperature and MDMA effectively reverses how it responds to temperature changes, particularly when temperatures go over ~35 deg C. So, you get hot, and the body actually heats up more. Check out work done by Mendelson, circa 2001.

So, allowing for individual susceptibility, the possible dose involved, and noting the hot temperatures of the day, I wouldn't be at all surprised if MDMA turns out to be the drug responsible.
 
^ we also need to remember that BZP/MCPP also stuffs the bodies ability to control temperature, i took one pill and it took me nearly 24 hours to get my body regulating properly again. Toxicology report is the only thing that is going to confirm what the drug was
 
Have the pills in question been reported or suspected to be piperazines? Just wondering, as I thought I read a post from a user saying he/she thought the pills, or at least those carrying the same logo, were MDMA.
 
My body temp went rank on mCPP. Although id expect she would have been spewing everywhere if she had pipz
 
Have the pills in question been reported or suspected to be piperazines? Just wondering, as I thought I read a post from a user saying he/she thought the pills, or at least those carrying the same logo, were MDMA.

PD, no sorry mate, I didn't mean to mislead, just stating that we need to have an open mind till we have some accurate toxicology, I also heard that it was possibly MDMA pills, but I know there are at least two types of green hearts floating around Perth, and we all know the problem with copy cat pills for our friends who make pips.
As I said, didn't to confuse the matter, just need to keep an eye on the outcome

BTW PD, love your work, cheers, Bayse

PLUR
 
^ you're right baysieguy, and thanks for the comments. Without wishing to sound insensitive about Gemma's death, I guess we're all anxious to hear drug was involved. Just hope we do get to hear that's all. There's been a few deaths in the past where this information never seemed to surface.
 
A cynical person would assume that the information isn't introduced if it didn't support the political goals of those concerned or in power at the time. :\
 
The same thought occurred me, lil angel. A few possibilities, in no particular order:

- MDMA wasn't involved therefore they can't demonise the drug.

- Releasing negative information could be seen as endosrsing an alternative. e.g. if mCPP was involved, MDMA is still regarded as safer.

- The more information released, the more informed the public becomes. This can't sit well with their agenda of confusion and scare tactics, helped along by a liberal dose of misinformation (aka BS) from some journalists.
 
It may be available via other cirlces, such as emergency/ medical. Might be worth asking anyway.
 
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