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  • AADD Moderators: Tronica

NEWS: 30-1-10 Ectasy tablets kills more Australians

PD, have real studies been undertaken on serotonin being recharged with the likes of 5HTP or has this only been done by way of "user studies".
I ask this question, not for recreational reasons, but it widely know that the USA are experimenting on returned soldiers with PTSS, but if the treatment is for a long period, will they also 'lose the magic' of the treatment?
I would suspect that they would have looked into being able to lengthen the effectiveness of the drug and therefore the treatment.
Are you aware of anything?
 
No I'm not aware of any studies in this area baysieguy1. From anecdotal reports it appears 5HTP cannot return the magic, perhaps due to 5HT axon damage, receptor sequestration or some metabolic change. It's possible this therapy only employs MDMA at a certain phase of the treatment. For the reasons mentioned I doubt it's an ongoing thing, but I could be wrong.


In relation to deaths from MDMA, some of you might like to look at the attached chart from

Ecstasy (MDMA, MDA, MDEA, MBDB) consumption, seizures, related offences, prices, dosage levels and deaths in the UK (1994–2003)

Journal of Psychopharmacology 20(3) (2006) 456–463 ISSN 0269-8811
 

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  • Ecstasy related deaths UK 1995-2003 copy.gif
    Ecstasy related deaths UK 1995-2003 copy.gif
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Ok lets explain (theoretically):

I try and smuggle 3 kilograms of 90% pure ecstasy with 10% adulterated. The cops seize it, I am out millions. Ok what to do next? I am in debt millions and on the verge of getting killed. I make a new batch, this time I make a 50/50 ratio because I am broke and in debt. That is smuggled successfully and sold, couple kids die from it.

See whats wrong here? Its this stupid drug war, if MDMA was legal NO ONE WOULD EVER DIE FROM IT, people will be using the pure substance and well educated about it.

of course yes there are also greedy assholes who make low mdma pills for extra money.
 
givemeword said:
See whats wrong here? Its this stupid drug war, if MDMA was legal NO ONE WOULD EVER DIE FROM IT, people will be using the pure substance and well educated about it.
Click to expand...

It isn't as simple as just being dying or not dying, there are a lot of other complex issues surrounding legalised drugs. This is why you will almost never see it happen in your life time.
 
If MDMA was legal and regulated e.g. by prescription, perhaps the death rate would be reduced, but there's always a risk. A guy I once bought health products from - a very health conscious bloke - took mdma, had sex and died from a heart attack. Perhaps it's only those predisposed, but it's wrong to say pure MDMA doesn't carry any risks.
 
RE: article quotes such as 'ecstasy deaths rising';

a friend made a good point the other day.
Deaths will ALWAYS be rising when the media reports on something harmful.
Simply because dead people don't come back to life.
The best that could happen is the figures stay the same, else they will always be on the increase. So the claim "deaths rising" is legit.


Its meaning is often misleading and misinterpreted but friend put it plainly and honestly;

The media doesn't care.


So AUSTRALIAN DEATHS FROM FALLING MAGICAL TOILET SEATS FROM THE SKY, SET TO INCREASE IN 2010 is an acceptable headline.

ridiculous, but no one knows, so no one speaks out against this ridiculous loophole.
 
contrast dismissal said:
RE: article quotes such as 'ecstasy deaths rising';

a friend made a good point the other day.
Deaths will ALWAYS be rising when the media reports on something harmful.
Simply because dead people don't come back to life.
The best that could happen is the figures stay the same, else they will always be on the increase. So the claim "deaths rising" is legit.


Its meaning is often misleading and misinterpreted but friend put it plainly and honestly;

The media doesn't care.


So AUSTRALIAN DEATHS FROM FALLING MAGICAL TOILET SEATS FROM THE SKY, SET TO INCREASE IN 2010 is an acceptable headline.

ridiculous, but no one knows, so no one speaks out against this ridiculous loophole.
Click to expand...

That is a very good point, hadn't thought of that at all. For the vast majority of Australians, the media is their only route of information regarding drugs. A sad reality that has and always will cause us more problems...
 
phase_dancer said:
If MDMA was legal and regulated e.g. by prescription, perhaps the death rate would be reduced, but there's always a risk. A guy I once bought health products from - a very health conscious bloke - took mdma, had sex and died from a heart attack. Perhaps it's only those predisposed, but it's wrong to say pure MDMA doesn't carry any risks.
Click to expand...

there are very few things in the world that carry no risk at all!
 
His point was consumption of MDMA is not like drinking a glass of water, there are precautions that need to be taken before, during and after use.
 
There are precautions to drinking a glass of water, you just learned them at such a young age you do them naturally. But this is way off topic. Get back on it.

I really liked that about the deaths rising comment. Never thought of it either.
 
You can't really say there are precautions with drinking a glass of water compared to MDMA. MDMA is a mind altering, body changing hallucinogenic, it carries with it the very real risk of death. Many people have died from its use (yes I'm talking about pure MDMA). I don't understand how people can believe MDMA is harmless.

This isn't off-topic, the news article is titled "Ecstasy tablets kill more Australians" and we are discussing the risk associated with consumption of MDMA.
 
chemi said:
You can't really say there are precautions with drinking a glass of water compared to MDMA. MDMA is a mind altering, body changing hallucinogenic, it carries with it the very real risk of death. Many people have died from its use (yes I'm talking about pure MDMA). I don't understand how people can believe MDMA is harmless.

This isn't off-topic, the news article is titled "Ecstasy tablets kill more Australians" and we are discussing the risk associated with consumption of MDMA.
Click to expand...

I however was talking about a glass of water. We all know there is risk involved with pure MDMA, however by choosing to take it we are choosing that the risk involved is worth the positive outcome. If not then any one who does is an idiot. By choosing to take it we accept there are risks and then move past it.
 
That's fair enough Jakeperson, and all HR can hope to offer is to help to ensure you and others are aware for those risks, both from health and legal perspectives.


Furthering to Chemi's arguments, anything that raises blood pressure and body temp as MDMA does and also has anti-diuretic properties, can be a real concern though, particularly in environments where ambient temps are also high. Sure there are worse drugs, PMA for example, but even so, MDMA can, and has resulted in fatalities. At the GC BDO this year, temps in the mosh pit peaked at 46 *C. Some nightclubs dance floors also reach high temps and it's these sorts of places which increase these risks considerably. (It's also been found that higher temps increase the neurological damage in rats - check circa 2001 work by Mendelson, Uni of California.

When speaking with someone from the heart foundation the other day, I was informed more young people are being diagnosed with cardio-vascular problems today than ever before. Unfortunately some people don't find this out until it's too late. Because the likelihood of use among younger people, this then is possibly the highest risk group in regards to MDMA, so don't think this is heart stuff is limited to just us oldies.

As you might suspect, I'm playing the devils advocate a bit here, but only in order to emphasize that these risks are real, and should be well understood by anyone considering using MDMA.
 
Totally and that is only considering deaths. There are loads of other neurological disorders that can come from extended usage such as depression and anxiety. I think these are all very good reasons not to legalise the drug. Sure we will stop the poor quality going around, but I am sure societies view will soon change and everyone will be using it like they do alcohol, imagine how many more people will be diagnosed with anxiety related disorders when every second person drops MD every weekend.
 
But I'm wondering, if you take out of the equation heat stress, dehydration, over drinking of water etc. that goes along with the club scene.... Would anybody ever die from pure MDMA? Of course people with bad hearts or something could, but I'm talking about the average person. Taking it at home or with a psychologist or other 'mental healer', I don't think anybody would die from it.

Plus you can't say
Many people have died from its use (yes I'm talking about pure MDMA)
Click to expand...
Because nobody knows whether anybody actually HAD pure MDMA since it's illegal.

In all the studies done with pure, medical grade MDMA has anyone died? Afaik they haven't.

But yes, there are risks with taking it willy nilly and thinking it's safe, but afaik it's due to indirect factors and not the drug itself.

The thing you've left out here, is that effectiveness of MDMA in treating PTSD seems to be compromised by past experience with the drug. It is one of the major concerns even Shulgin had when widespread recreational use of MDMA first occurred, as using the drug in this context negates the effectiveness if it's later used in a therapeutic setting
Click to expand...
Yeah that's a good point.
Also I don't think taking vitamin C and 5HTP etc. would help as someone mentioned.
I don't think it has anything to do with the actual mechanisms of the drug or the serotonin receptors. I think it's more that fact that the first time is so mind blowing because it's completely new, something you've never experiences before.
From there on, you kinda just know what's going to happen and thus the effect is diminished compared to when it's a new experience.

I could be wrong though.
 
I think all we have identified here are there are many many issues with legalising MDMA, hence there is no way it is going to be legalised. We need to accept this and move on.
 
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