thestudent14
Bluelighter
I have been an organ donor for years, my whole family feels very strongly about it.
I agree fully that everyone should be one.
I agree fully that everyone should be one.
-
-
AADD Moderators: Tronica
NEWS : 25.2.10 - Dying drug addict refused second liver transplant
- Thread starter kingpin007
- Start date
- Status
drug_mentor
Bluelight Crew
Some of the shit being said in this thread is pretty fucking harsh, the woman obviously has a serious drug problem and just giving her a new liver doesn't make her addiction disappear. It is easy to sit and say how you would do better but it might not be so easy if you are put in this womans shoes.
That said, I think she should have less priority than other people on the list. It is silly to completely remove her, especially since she is a mother. I think there are definately others who deserve it more and if the supply is limited she should do without before them.
It is a shame anyone has to do without but I guess that is just life. More people should definately donate and until the day where they do there will always be tragic stories like this one. I don't think this woman is a piece of shit or any nonsense that some people have said, have some fucking compassion, you don't know what this woman has gone through.
That said, I think she should have less priority than other people on the list. It is silly to completely remove her, especially since she is a mother. I think there are definately others who deserve it more and if the supply is limited she should do without before them.
It is a shame anyone has to do without but I guess that is just life. More people should definately donate and until the day where they do there will always be tragic stories like this one. I don't think this woman is a piece of shit or any nonsense that some people have said, have some fucking compassion, you don't know what this woman has gone through.
madmick19
Bluelight Crew
These arguments have been around for ever, the difference between the deserving and undeserving person. both veiws are moral points, but to make a judement based on a news story when so often it is argued here on BL with drug stories makes me wonder how much lip service we pay to bringing a critical eye to the press.
it would seem only when stories challenge our experience- we rally to the cause to rebutt the argument. Yet alot of our opinions are formed in the hastiness of today, from our lives and not from others. it would be a pity for this community to condemn anopther to death cause she didnt play by the social rulebook............. kinda why the readers of bl ended up here speaking on these forums
_______________________________________________________
The Undeserving Poor 2009 July 28
by Dave Fagg
Do the undeserving poor deserve our help? After the bushfires, a young guy I know with a passion for snakes bought a snake tank and python with the bushfire money he got. Now, his house wasn’t damaged, his life wasn’t under threat, he lived further from the fire than I do! But he was able to get one of the cash handouts. Another lady, who was more affected, bought a car with hers, and then a few weeks lately crashed into a neighbour’s fence with it while under the influence. These neighbours of mine, in the eyes of many Australians, are the undeserving poor,
The “undeserving poor” is not a phrase that Jesus bandied around much, but it lurks whenever we talk of ‘helping the poor or ‘mutual obligation’. The ‘undeserving poor’ are those who are in poverty through, mainly, their own doing. They have wasted their stimulus package (and their baby bonus) on wild living, alcohol, drugs, junk food and pokies. On the other hand, the ‘deserving poor’ have made good with the little they’ve got from life, diligently saving what they can as they eat stale toast spread with a slither of Vegemite, or perhaps breathing raggedly though lungs destroyed by asbestos. The deserving poor are those who will, with our assistance, be good citizens. The black sheep, the undeserving poor, seem to us to just want to muck about in their squalor.
When Australians look to the global poor, they see (with the eyes of pity and compassion) the ‘deserving poor’, their lives ruined by tsunami, evil & corrupt politicians and civil war beyond their control. We like the deserving poor to stay where they are, and we like to help them. Once they start walking our neighbourhoods, they are usually headed to the ‘undeserving poor’ bin. When we look to our own neighbourhoods, we tend to see the undeserving poor – people who lack things but also seem to have opportunities they let slip, jobs they didn’t get…they are just not afflicted enough to gain our undying sympathy!
Why the difference in sympathy?
Hyperopia & Myopia refer to common problems with eyesight. Hyporopia, or long-sightedness, means you can see the child kidnapped to be a child soldier in Darfur but you can’t see the teenage mum captive to cycles of domestic violence – “Why doesn’t she just leave him?”. Myopia, or short-sightedness, means we see the ambiguity of a 21 y.o. single mum with 3 kids (one with a disability) spending half the stimulus package on drugs but the siphoning of our overseas aid money because of corruption seems just too hazy to really see.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# The Influence of Perceived Deservingness on Policy Decisions regarding Aid to the Poor
# Lauren D. Appelbaum
# Political Psychology, Vol. 22, No. 3 (Sep., 2001), pp. 419-442
Abstract
In the current climate of welfare reform, it is important to understand how perceptions of the poor affect policy decisions. This paper examines how people distinguish between the undeserving poor and the deserving poor, and how this differentiation affects policy decisions. Survey respondents rated each policy in a set of hypothetical policies on a liberal-conservative continuum. Analyses were then conducted to explore differences in the respondents' likelihood of recommending the most liberal and the most conservative of these policies. Study 1 demonstrated that liberal policies were more likely to be recommended and conservative policies were less likely to be recommended when the target group was perceived to be deserving rather than undeserving. Study 2 replicated this effect of perceived deservingness and demonstrated an effect of attribution of responsibility. That is, liberal policies were more likely to be recommended and conservative policies were less likely to be recommended when the responsibility for the target's poverty was attributed to society rather than to the individual.
it would seem only when stories challenge our experience- we rally to the cause to rebutt the argument. Yet alot of our opinions are formed in the hastiness of today, from our lives and not from others. it would be a pity for this community to condemn anopther to death cause she didnt play by the social rulebook............. kinda why the readers of bl ended up here speaking on these forums
_______________________________________________________
The Undeserving Poor 2009 July 28
by Dave Fagg
Do the undeserving poor deserve our help? After the bushfires, a young guy I know with a passion for snakes bought a snake tank and python with the bushfire money he got. Now, his house wasn’t damaged, his life wasn’t under threat, he lived further from the fire than I do! But he was able to get one of the cash handouts. Another lady, who was more affected, bought a car with hers, and then a few weeks lately crashed into a neighbour’s fence with it while under the influence. These neighbours of mine, in the eyes of many Australians, are the undeserving poor,
The “undeserving poor” is not a phrase that Jesus bandied around much, but it lurks whenever we talk of ‘helping the poor or ‘mutual obligation’. The ‘undeserving poor’ are those who are in poverty through, mainly, their own doing. They have wasted their stimulus package (and their baby bonus) on wild living, alcohol, drugs, junk food and pokies. On the other hand, the ‘deserving poor’ have made good with the little they’ve got from life, diligently saving what they can as they eat stale toast spread with a slither of Vegemite, or perhaps breathing raggedly though lungs destroyed by asbestos. The deserving poor are those who will, with our assistance, be good citizens. The black sheep, the undeserving poor, seem to us to just want to muck about in their squalor.
When Australians look to the global poor, they see (with the eyes of pity and compassion) the ‘deserving poor’, their lives ruined by tsunami, evil & corrupt politicians and civil war beyond their control. We like the deserving poor to stay where they are, and we like to help them. Once they start walking our neighbourhoods, they are usually headed to the ‘undeserving poor’ bin. When we look to our own neighbourhoods, we tend to see the undeserving poor – people who lack things but also seem to have opportunities they let slip, jobs they didn’t get…they are just not afflicted enough to gain our undying sympathy!
Why the difference in sympathy?
Hyperopia & Myopia refer to common problems with eyesight. Hyporopia, or long-sightedness, means you can see the child kidnapped to be a child soldier in Darfur but you can’t see the teenage mum captive to cycles of domestic violence – “Why doesn’t she just leave him?”. Myopia, or short-sightedness, means we see the ambiguity of a 21 y.o. single mum with 3 kids (one with a disability) spending half the stimulus package on drugs but the siphoning of our overseas aid money because of corruption seems just too hazy to really see.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# The Influence of Perceived Deservingness on Policy Decisions regarding Aid to the Poor
# Lauren D. Appelbaum
# Political Psychology, Vol. 22, No. 3 (Sep., 2001), pp. 419-442
Abstract
In the current climate of welfare reform, it is important to understand how perceptions of the poor affect policy decisions. This paper examines how people distinguish between the undeserving poor and the deserving poor, and how this differentiation affects policy decisions. Survey respondents rated each policy in a set of hypothetical policies on a liberal-conservative continuum. Analyses were then conducted to explore differences in the respondents' likelihood of recommending the most liberal and the most conservative of these policies. Study 1 demonstrated that liberal policies were more likely to be recommended and conservative policies were less likely to be recommended when the target group was perceived to be deserving rather than undeserving. Study 2 replicated this effect of perceived deservingness and demonstrated an effect of attribution of responsibility. That is, liberal policies were more likely to be recommended and conservative policies were less likely to be recommended when the responsibility for the target's poverty was attributed to society rather than to the individual.
Last edited:
helohihello
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2009
- Messages
- 107
Yeah what puckboy said, basically they send you a latter after you register on that site. You have to sign it and send it in, then they send a card after that I think.
Samadhi
Bluelight Crew
Interestingly, while listening to The Hack this afternoon, they were discussing organ donation (i didn't listen to it all - wasn't in the car for that long, so i'm unsure if this issue was the cause of the discussion). It was said a few times, that regardless of your license status or registering as an organ donor, your next of kin can actually veto that decision after your death. ![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
I would say that perhaps stating it in your will may be the only way? I'm no legal-eagle though, so that is pure conjecture.
I would say that perhaps stating it in your will may be the only way? I'm no legal-eagle though, so that is pure conjecture.Jakeperson
Bluelighter
This thread really shows why none of us are in the position of choosing whether she deserves the transplant or not.
Dr.Feelgood
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2006
- Messages
- 220
chemi
Bluelighter
That's irrelevant, and I don't see how this thread shows that at all. These posts are all simply uneducated opinion (which, by the way, is perfectly fine for general discussion).
In fact now that I'm posting, why is there so much hostility and aggression in this thread? I've seen pointless name calling, passive aggressiveness and downright rudeness in several posts.
Why?
We're commenting on a news story. People don't have to get so riled up about it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and that opinion doesn't necessarily have anything to do with someone's intelligence (as I saw one point out last page).
Please stop. If we want to have educated and intelligent discussion, please, keep the slander and immaturity to a minimum.
Busty St Clare
Ex-Bluelighter
Interestingly, while listening to The Hack this afternoon, they were discussing organ donation (i didn't listen to it all - wasn't in the car for that long, so i'm unsure if this issue was the cause of the discussion). It was said a few times, that regardless of your license status or registering as an organ donor, your next of kin can actually veto that decision after your death.
This is the real problem with the poor donor numbers. Despite having it clearly marked on your licence, it can still be veto'd by your family. The problem occurs because the need for time to grieve conflicts with the need for urgency with regards to the organ harvest. That is why it is just as important to make your family aware of your stand as it is to tick the donor box on the form. It is too hard to argue your point of view once you are in an induced coma.
Personally I believe we need an "Opt out" not an "Opt In" system or simply allow donations only to those on the donor lists.
As sad as this mums position is, there is a waiting list of people for liver donors. Yes, it is sad her one chance is lost but the next person on the list has their turn now. There are plenty of operations where people who are too over weight or who smoke are screened out because the risk of failure is too high. Surely it is not asking too much for a donor to quit drugs before they receive a public funded liver. If she was such a great mum, perhaps she should have tried a long time ago. Harsh but fair in my opinion. If she wishes to pay privately for a live donor liver then I don't think there is a problem as at least the donor has the choice to veto it if they are not happy.
Jakeperson
Bluelighter
Gee I wonder, could it have been bad language instead
We've already discussed that even for non-drug users that this kinda thing is quite common.
I heard on the radio yesterday that she isn't going to New Zealand anymore but to a country in South East Asia (can't remember which) and that the government is paying for the entire operation and travel etc, the whole $250,000. Thats ridiculous.
hyroller
Bluelighter
^^^^ Wow.
I would think that after 250k, her chance of using again is next to nil.
But, good for her I guess. Just shows what a little media attention can do...
I would think that after 250k, her chance of using again is next to nil.
But, good for her I guess. Just shows what a little media attention can do...
chemi
Bluelighter
Lol, this woman won't have learnt a single thing from this whole ordeal, 60 Minutes essentially undermining the lesson to be learnt here 
God help her if she is unable to realise what the hell she is doing to herself now.
God help her if she is unable to realise what the hell she is doing to herself now.
helohihello
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2009
- Messages
- 107
Heh, just read that 250k thing as well.
This was in a doctors magazine, the headline:
Drug user loaned $250k for transplant
A State government will loan the family of a young drug user more than $250,000 for a second liver transplant overseas.
Ridiculous. Even doctors can't keep their opinions to themselves. Why not just say "Young girl"? Why does it have to be "drug user". They wouldn't say "caffeine addict loaned $250k for transplant" would they.
This was in a doctors magazine, the headline:
Drug user loaned $250k for transplant
A State government will loan the family of a young drug user more than $250,000 for a second liver transplant overseas.
Ridiculous. Even doctors can't keep their opinions to themselves. Why not just say "Young girl"? Why does it have to be "drug user". They wouldn't say "caffeine addict loaned $250k for transplant" would they.
Just a few cents, but I was talking to a friend today, who happens to know the family of this girl, and conveniently enough, she told me that its not only her, the whole family has/had extreme problems with substance abuse.
Shame the media only reports on one side of the story =/
And $250,000 of tax payers money? ... Sigh
Shame the media only reports on one side of the story =/
And $250,000 of tax payers money? ... Sigh
helohihello
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2009
- Messages
- 107
How is having a whole family being addicts make her any worse?
Explain that to me.
You can't. It just makes it more likely for her to become an addict herself, which she has. Victim of circumstances.
$250 000 is fuck all. There's about $1 billion a year spent on the drug war in Australia.
I don't blame anyone for becoming an addict. I blame the government for having a drug war in the first place and the government and western society for not educating people properly and ridding us of the circumstances which are most likely to lead to addictive drug use.
Explain that to me.
You can't. It just makes it more likely for her to become an addict herself, which she has. Victim of circumstances.
$250 000 is fuck all. There's about $1 billion a year spent on the drug war in Australia.
I don't blame anyone for becoming an addict. I blame the government for having a drug war in the first place and the government and western society for not educating people properly and ridding us of the circumstances which are most likely to lead to addictive drug use.
givemeword
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 26
Those children have a better chance at a better life with a foster family than a drug addict. That liver can also go to a much more deserving person.
- Status