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Newbie here using Suboxone need help

bucketlist4me

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
1
hello friends who understand, I am a 52 year old gentleman with 18 years of sobriety. I was in AA and cook the steps and my life got wonderful. However after applying the steps to my life and finally getting my life together, I was stricken with an anxiety disorder after 10 years of sobriety. I have fought with doctors and insurance companies trying to flying the right combination of medications and if necessary therapyand I have learned that the stigma attached to suboxone is making matters extremely difficult.I was in a couple of car accidents and had to take pain medication for about 14 months until I recovered. Then it was too hard to quit and I was recommended by my insurance company 2 begin treatment with suboxone.the suboxone work so well getting me off of the pain pills and it also help me with my anxiety and I have decided that this medication is beneficial for me to take long term as it also takes away any cravings for other substances. I have an older brother who just started suboxone because he had injuries and was taking pain pills. I have learned an extraordinarily amount of information regarding suboxone and I seeking knowledge and resources regarding patient rights. It seems as though the doctors and treatment centers are insisting that I need to go to counseling or therapy.this is absolutely unnecessary for a person like me because I have spent 18 years clearing the wreckage of my past in my life is beautiful right now I cannot get it any better than it is. However they still seem to think I need to go to counseling in order for me to continue to take this a box on which helps me to stay sober and helps me with my anxiety. If any of you good people have any information to share with me or suggestions regarding suboxone patient rights, please contact meor re post your comments here thank you so much.
 
welcome to BL!!!

I know a bit about patient rights ive read the Vancouver(where im from) methadone/suboxone rules and regulations many times but your probaly in the states not canada so it may be a bit different.
so you are going to a clinic that specializes in suboxone/methadone treatment for opiate addicts?
if so then theres not much you can do if the doctor wants you having support then you have to follow there rules and see somebody once a month or so like a counsler cause in the end they are the ones prescribing it and a lot of the times the doctors are just following the rules the government places on them cause the doctor is suposed to make sure the patient has secondary assistance like a drug counsler for help in relapse prevention instead of only being given opiates from the clinic with no other therapy being incorporated into the addicts life. the doctors are trying to save their own ass a lot of the time at these clinics.
in private practices usually its up to the doctors discretion whether or not the patient needs secondary therapy so theres more wiggle room there but in Canada suboxone cant be prescribed like that its only given out at methadone/suboxone clinics and is very strictly controlled.

in the states there are out patient private doctors that prescribe suboxone I know maybe try some of those phone a few tell tehm their story and see what they say its worth a shot.

hope I was of some help and sorry I don't know your laws but here in Canada each province has their own rules about this type of thing and their own rules and regulations booklet that explains what doctors can and cant do and what we as patients have in the way of rights while on methadone/suboxone.

or who knows man maybe you could use some counsling you never know there must be a reason you still fight the urge to use everyday.
 
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Hi Bucketlist, welcome to BL. I am also new and Canadian like Trainspotter.

Like you, I was in AA, 10 years sobriety, and on the pink cloud, but now I am addicted to oxy and planning on going to the methadone/suboxone clinic to talk to them. I also, like you, got hit with anxiety, panic attacks, bad depression (but I am BiPolar, but had it under control until I got my hands on oxy), I feel your pain Bucketlist. I am right beside you. I did my steps and sifted all the shit, but now I am being bombarded with guilt,shame and remorse and I don't really want to live anymore. I can't sleep, nightmares, shakes, jerks, life really sucks. I have been thinking about going back to AA or NA............I am just so low.

I hope you get help, and if I am lucky on here, I will get the same.

*hugs*
 
Suboxone is estimated to be 25 to 40 times more potent than morphine. I have found that the optimal time to have someone on Suboxone is between 20 and 25 days, tapering down on the medication every few days. This makes the physical symptoms of detox very manageable, without causing the patient to become cross-addicted to Suboxone. I have found that Suboxone use for a longer period than this begins to cause a strong dependence on the medication.

Once a patient is stabilized with Suboxone and no longer getting high, he/she has to be convinced that recovery is possible. Then you must prepare for the restlessness, irritability and discontent they will experience when they are off all narcotics, including Suboxone.


Suboxone detox makes the physical aspect of the disease manageable, but does not help with the emotional and spiritual consequences of addiction. Often patients are concerned about coming off Suboxone, but I educate them about how Suboxone is a tool to get them clean but not a suitable maintenance drug if a patient wants to get into recovery.


Suboxone is a powerful opiate-an anesthetic to emotional pain. It immediately alleviates anxiety and depression, and makes a person feel more emotionally stable. A lesser dose of Suboxone (2 mg a day) will block an estimated 80 percent of a person's feelings, while higher doses can make a patient practically numb. Patients often say they feel great on Suboxone and since they are not getting high they want to continue on it. At that point you need to start experiencing emotions to understand what you were trying to self-medicate in the first place. It's time to live life on life's terms.

When used in the short term, Suboxone is the best detox drug I have ever seen. It can immediately stabilize a patient's life, and this can be done in an out patient setting. When used long-term, though, it is the hardest medication I have ever dealt with in terms of detoxing myself and patient's from it.

Suboxone does not work like natural opiates; it is created in a lab and interacts with the receptors in the brain unlike any other opiate.I speculate, based on dealing with hundreds of patients who have been on Suboxone maintenance, that when Suboxone is given long-term it causes abnormal adaptations to opiate receptors and other brain receptors. In my experience,long-term use can cause emotional deregulation, loss of libido, hair loss, and an abnormality in how the body regulates its response to stress.


Suboxone is a mixture of buprenorphine and naloxone. Buprenorphine is a powerful opiate, and naloxone is an opiate blocker used to resuscitate people in the ER from an opiate overdose. The misuse of Suboxone and the lack of attention to the problem are causing physicians untrained in addiction medicine to feed into over prescribing. Many do not understand the long-term ramifications of Suboxone addiction, and it also is a very lucrative business for the prescribing physician. Many doctors charge $200 to $300 monthly, per patient, for a 5-to-10 minute checkup to renew a Suboxone prescription.

Most places prescribing Suboxone maintenance do not offer any addiction treatment because the doctor is not trained in addiction medicine and because it is not time, or cost-effective to do so. Furthermore, the lucrative nature of Suboxone on a maintenance basis creates a disincentive to tapering the drug and its income-generating potential. The success rate for detox from Suboxone is much lower than that for detox from other opiates because patients tend to give up hope during the lengthy withdrawal process.

Remember a Suboxone induction rarely needs more than 2mg, and anything over 4mg is ludicrous.

Nowadays patient rights are consistent with that of an oxymoron. Here in the United States the Drug Enforcement Agency will always back a Doctor who refuses to prescribe narcotics. So realize now you have no rights when it comes to narcotics. If you are addicted to Suboxone because you feel that it solves all your life problems then you do need counseling. However, I am a strong believer that you must do what you feel is right. BUT DON'T LIE TO YOURSELF. If you know you are addicted, just say "I'm addicted" and "I can better manage my life on this addictive drug". Heed my words though, the longer you are on Suboxone the harder it will be to ever get off. A Suboxone withdrawl is long, hard, and pure agony compared to even Fentanyl and Heroin. It is because the half-life is so strong and it builds continuously in your system.

I myself am a counselor and a psychiatric
prescriber of medicines. I am also a Fentanyl addict who has spent 5 years experimenting with opiates extensively; including Suboxone. I have come to terms with my addiction. I like being on drugs and i have no wreckage to clear from my life because of addiction. I have created a balance of drug addiction and real life. My drug addiction always comes second, but i don't keep it on the back burner long. However, very few people can do that...maybe you are one of the few? I doubt it though bud....you are trying to find a loophole right now involving patient rights so you can stay on the drugs. You are also doing research into the drug to find a validity to make your case.

Do you think just because the Suboxone doesn't make you high that it is the "magic pill" to help you manage your life? I can tell you that you are heading down a road of denial; it's ok, at one point we all do. Like I said before, and will reiterate now, DO NOT LIE TO YOURSELF. If you can honestly say you 100% absolutely have no issues (even though you have extensive drug addiction issues) then switch to a doctor that will continue to feed you your supply of dope...there are plenty who will.

However, if you realize you have physical or psychosomatic problems that need resolving, stay on the drug; go to counseling and when you are ready, get off the drug. Fear is not our enemy it is our friend. Embrace it...consider change. You have nothing to lose by considering counseling. It does not make you less of a man. I know, I've been there. I had an injury 10 years ago while serving my country that left me with a broken back. I have plates, screws, and rods throughout my body. I am finishing my Doctorate internship to become a clinical Psychiatrist. What I'm not doing is lying to myself about being a drug addict. I can balance my life because I never destroyed it with drugs.

Also remember, Suboxone is a narcotic, a narcotic worse than the pain pills you were taking. You are fooling yourself by thinking it is helping your life anymore than the pain dope you were on. Just think about it. There is no right answer, you must do what you feel is right. There is an entire community here behind you that will not judge you. Best of luck.
 
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I back everything fentanyl king said. I found subs to be an adequate replacement-more so- than the opiates I was abusing. I felt I got higher at first,..alleviated pain, it was great at first. Now I can't get off them. The stigma with subs being for withdrawals is very alluring to first become mentally addicted, then after a time you will find you are physically addicted as well..which none of these clinic physicians that are prescribing it to you will warn you of. I live in the southern u.s. and the clinics are everywhere. And the money they are raking in most would never mention seeking counseling or to lower the dose. I was started at 30 8 mg strips 2 x a day and was very soon up to 90 a month. Never has the doc suggested tapering off. If I asked for more I'm sure he would oblige. Point is Ive become more addicted to these very expensive damn things for more than 4 yrs. Way more than any opiate I've ever taken. I don't get a buzz anywhere, I wish I did,.I just can't stop my life to go thru the withdrawals, and after as long as I've been on them they are horrible. Good luck OP. The choice is yours.
 
This is interesting. I have been taking low dose suboxone for the past month after putting down a pretty hefty opioid habit and find the information in Fentanyl King's post no less than encouraging. It has been two days since my last dose of bupe (1mg insufflated) and so far I am feeling reasonably good physically. I am going to try and ride it out and see what happens.

I have heard a little bit of talk about using steroids to combat PAWS and am quite curious. I feel like my natural test. levels are on the decline anyhow and have only been further diminished by prolonged drug use. I will report back if my investigation yields any interesting results.
 
I may be strange but I was on Suboxone (low dose) for about two years. When I ran out of insurance and could no longer afford it I was able to quit, cold turkey, with no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. Maybe knowing I could no longer get it made the difference...Idunno
 
hello friends who understand, I am a 52 year old gentleman with 18 years of sobriety. I was in AA and cook the steps and my life got wonderful. However after applying the steps to my life and finally getting my life together, I was stricken with an anxiety disorder after 10 years of sobriety. I have fought with doctors and insurance companies trying to flying the right combination of medications and if necessary therapyand I have learned that the stigma attached to suboxone is making matters extremely difficult.I was in a couple of car accidents and had to take pain medication for about 14 months until I recovered. Then it was too hard to quit and I was recommended by my insurance company 2 begin treatment with suboxone.the suboxone work so well getting me off of the pain pills and it also help me with my anxiety and I have decided that this medication is beneficial for me to take long term as it also takes away any cravings for other substances. I have an older brother who just started suboxone because he had injuries and was taking pain pills. I have learned an extraordinarily amount of information regarding suboxone and I seeking knowledge and resources regarding patient rights. It seems as though the doctors and treatment centers are insisting that I need to go to counseling or therapy.this is absolutely unnecessary for a person like me because I have spent 18 years clearing the wreckage of my past in my life is beautiful right now I cannot get it any better than it is. However they still seem to think I need to go to counseling in order for me to continue to take this a box on which helps me to stay sober and helps me with my anxiety. If any of you good people have any information to share with me or suggestions regarding suboxone patient rights, please contact meor re post your comments here thank you so much.

Hiya bucketlist4me,

There's a thread called Suboxone/ Buprenorphine Megathread and FAQ V.18.0 where lots of members discuss their suboxone experiences, ask questions and give or receive advice. You may find that thread useful. I can't really speak for you services as I am from the UK and we do things differently here. So unfortunately I don't know if there's a way of getting out of the counselling and just taking the suboxone. However, if worse comes to worse, maybe see it in a positive way. Counselling can be useful for learning or exploring more about yourself - it doesn't necessarily have to be the usual.

I'm sorry that I cannot help you any further, however, I would like to say welcome to Bluelight and hope you find the information that you need. Please feel free to ask any further questions. Ill give you a few links that may help you familiarise yourself with Bluelight.

- BLUA (Bluelight User Agreement)
- Greenlighter's Guide
- New Members Introductions (NMI) Social Thread
- Adoption Programme

Take care,

I may be strange but I was on Suboxone (low dose) for about two years. When I ran out of insurance and could no longer afford it I was able to quit, cold turkey, with no withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. Maybe knowing I could no longer get it made the difference...Idunno

Hiya Whiskey Pete - Welcome to Bluelight and wishing you good health. Well done on quitting suboxone and that's very pleasing to hear that you never had withdrawal symptoms - a lot of people report a difficult time so it's lovely to hear that you did not.

Take care,

Evey
 
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