New York Observer slams Oz!

[Pleonastic]

I'm going to read the artical later cos I can't be fucked right now... but I will say this first:
To all those getting their backs up about it, think about the number of times we have openly bagged America. I'd say a hell of a lot more than they bag us...
What it boils down to though, is who really gives a fuck...
[ 08 February 2002: Message edited by: Pleonastic ]

 

[cuba]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THE RACISM COMMENTS!!!! lets put Woomera/mandatory detention in perspective- I disagree with it but I am not going to simply jump on an "anti" bandwagon which is often so ludicrous that it meets up with the "pro" bandwagon on the other side!!!! My whole family watched a doco on sbs(?) about refugees in America and guess what - Many refugees there are LOCKED UP in GAOL (as in the real gaols filled with murderers rapists etc) and they have the hide to judge us. Refugees are also often redirected to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba (lets not start on about America with regard to Cuba!!!!). I just wish I remembered the show it was- I will get back to you!
The cultural comments are even more pathetic- yes Australia is culturally vapid etc and America is home to rampant tolerance, intellectualism and cultural awareness HAHAHAHAHA- America IS commercial culture. Typical gutter journalism from yet another so-called "columnist" ie journo with no real talent who just says what they want.
Oh and the comments about Australia being the most "white" place in the western world- does that dignify an answer-NO but I have low self-respect. Unlike this wanker I actually live here and study arts/law at uni where I did months of study on Australian culture/politics/multiculturalism and much more and wrote an essay on this very issue. Even back in 1988 40% of aussies were born overseas or had parents born overseas and I THINK that was the highest proportion in the world (damn short-term memory).
Us "lowly" "ossies" (dont u hate how they say that)have a word for people like u! DICKHEAD!!

 

[ruski]

<nods at Nezo> Damn pride and patriotic stupidity.. when will it end
This is how the world sees us, I'm sure if that if this is one guys opinion than many others probably share it, I mean look its already been shared by fellow aussies, including to some degree myself.

 

[Snrub]

too pissed to make any sort of argument.
he makes an occasional point amongst the unjustified slander but in the silliest of ways.
word of advice 'mate', dont ever fucken come back!

 

[Genasirus]

Cuba.... "White" australia policy.... 'White' being to the exclusion of 'Blacks / coloured' people... Hes not talking about wether you were born in England, or Malta, or Spain... hes talking about the total lack of black / african / etc population. I'm not sure what you wrote your paper on...
And if you look around you... Australia is one of the 'whitest' 1st world countries on the planet... by far.

 

[Bossdog]

Im sure I will get flamed for this but...
The guy makes some very fucking good points!!!!!!!! Don't forget that we are all lucky enough to come from educated, middle class backgrounds and we are a relative minority. Sadly, the majority of Australians do seem to be like he says!
The detention centre issue is huge.. and the support the government is getting from the general population is discusting!
This guy has made some very sweeping statements but also some very accurate comments. I think you should look around at the country you live in before you get so angry...
Flame away!!!

 

[liquidocean]

As much as i love Australia the country, the culture, and the land, i am inclined to say that they have a complex where they believe that they live in a sort of fantasy white man's promised land. Although they accept many emigrees and refugees and fight in the more humanitarian of struggles, they consider themselves a 'white' nation first, then a multicultured one after.
The author does hit upon many sore spots in Aussie culture. It is ok........
For a young culture, Aussies have skipped many of the tribulations of adolescence, and like Canada, have had to deal with the overbearing big brother that is America. But otherwise, there is no reason to 'objectively' examine the pros and cons of its cultural standpoints.
Seeing as it is jockying to be first in line in decrying the faults of American culture (actually capitalist corporate culture), it should take some stones in its own glass windows, lest it be a copy of its more infamous sibling..........

 

[anfalicious]

First off, I'd like to point out that Australia has a massive lack of blacks because, well, we never imported them as slaves... We do have the largest Greek population outside of Athens here in Melbourne, and the asian populations are becomming increasingly large (I stress that this is not a bad thing).
I honestly believe that we are amongst the most tolerant countries in the world. You want white? Go to Scandinavia... I have travelled fairly widely, and I definately believe we are the most tolerant and acceptant cultures on the planet. By the way, it is still perfectly acceptable to call whites in China "round eyes" or "big noses", and if you dont like being called that, you leave the country.
On the issue of detentions centers, please let it be known that the Afghan "refugees" are no longer refugees. They regime they fled has been toppled, they have been invited back by the new government, and our government has offered to pay for the plane ride home. They now, are just illegal immigrants trying to enter the country illegally. Now, I would not want to deny someone the right to seek out a better life for themselves and their family, but there are processes in place, and reasons for these processes. Why should someone in Woomera get a citizenship ahead of someone whose been sitting in a refugee camp in Thailand or Rwanda for 5 years? That, to me, is not fair.
I really hope the UN do their inspection of the detention centers soon, to see how they measure up to places like Guantamo Bay etc. I honestly don't believe our government would do something as stupid as put these people in a place that will earn us international condemnation (there has not been an idependant revue of these centers yet). People who have come out of them call them "concentration camps". If I were Jewish, I'd take offence to this. Stalag 13, you were gassed and your hair was shaved to be made into socks for U-Boat staff. Woomera is a place used to detain people whilst their applications are being processed. They are fed and are given a place to stay. Sure, it aint the hilton, and people are caged in, but the way some of these people have behaved, I honestly never want them in this country, let alone running around before they've been processed. Come on, sewing a babies lips together? Yes they may be desperate, but for someone to do this, there has to be something instinctly wrong with them.
Call me racist if you will, I know in my heart that I am not. I just refuse to be another fucking vocal bleeding heart, saying shit because it's "politically correct".
Oh yeah, can I also add, out of all my travels, americans are the most hated group of people on earth, and widely regarded as the most ignorant.

 

[Snrub]

Originally posted by anfalicious:
[QB]for someone to do this, there has to be something instinctly wrong with them.[QB]
way to generalize.
however i agree this is a hazy area, im not sure if anyone could say one way or another whether theyd be safe to go back to afghanistan. we should be taking on more refugees anyway and treating the ones that arrive here much much better.

 

[dr seuss]

sour grapes mr weiss?
worried that the poor actors indigenous to hollywood were being usurped by some aussie (and not-so-aussie) talent?
compton, l.a. or the deep south
vs
sydney harbour or the barrier reef.
phew, i'd have to think twice....

 

[Tabernacle]

Sure this guy makes some valid points but he is above all else a hypocrite of extraordinary magnitude- all of the points he makes about australia cannot be justified from an american standpoint. It's not that i'm being overly patriotic it's just that his arguments just don't follow correct lines of reasoning- if americans want to flame australia at least construct a plausible argument without the layered on banal tripe this fucker seems to be so adept at writing

 

[johnboy]

Stop playing the comparison game. stop saying that we aren't racist "compared to america". this is such bullshit. comparative guilt always ends up looking ridiculous. Can you imagine Nazi Germany saying they weren't as bad as the Russians coz Stalin killed 20 Million of his own people?
Look at your own country, and your own history, on it's own terms. Don't make me enumerate the horrible racsim of our past, and of the present.
Sure we now have a multicultural society in a lot of ways but we have a long way to go and our history is so steeped in the blood of genocide, genocide of only a couple of generations ago, that we can't afford to be complacent.
Mea Culpa. I'm guilty, as an Austrlian, of being complicit in a lot of terrible activity. I'd rather admit it and look to the future, than deny all and live in a fantasy land past.
This guy's rant is as opinionated and as biased and as valid as any written about America post 9/11 by the many people in the rest of the world, myself included. You are entitled to your own opinion, and reply rant, but calling this person a hypocrite is missing the point in the biggest way possible.
Liquidocean: long time no see, hope things are good?

 

[Raving Loony]

Originally posted by johnboy:
This guy's rant is as opinionated and as biased and as valid as any written about America post 9/11 by the many people in the rest of the world, myself included. You are entitled to your own opinion, and reply rant, but calling this person a hypocrite is missing the point in the biggest way possible.

I'm as concerned about our racist past and present. Growing up in rural areas with redneck views was rather difficult to come to terms with at times. I am ashamed of the primary school yard jokes I used to make about those who were different. Thankfully, I like to think that I have learned much from past, even if there is more work that needs to be done.
Our nations racist attitude will only change over time. To change the way (say) 80% of the people think is extremely difficult. But that doesn't mean we should give up hope. A waterfall just starts with a drop of water. Look at how less homophobic commercial television is nowadays to, say at 1990.
My biggest problem with the article is that it's blanket attack on everything in Australia does little to help the cause. So ok, calling him a hypocrite was harsh. Fair call. But it does come across as a bit of a 'holier than thou' article, which did piss me off greatly.

 

[Prometheus]

Good article. A little polemic perhaps but for the most part it strikes me as a fairly accurate commentary on the national sentiment of our country from an outsider's perspective.
Let's not forget that the way many of you view Australia is not how the rest of the world does and attempting to justify Australia's moral indignancy with cries of hypocrite is a lost cause and if anyting only contributes further to the problems many of you seem so blind to.

 

[anfalicious]

Originally posted by Snrub:

way to generalize.
Erm... do you know what generalizing (sic) is?
Anyways, I was talking about a specific incident. If I was to say someone who raped, murdered and mutilated 32 school girls was perhaps a little loco in el coco, would that be generalising? I know it can't be used as a direct analogy, just using it to make a point
I love how people are pulling figures out of their rectums here... someone saying that 80% of Australians are racist??? I mean, wtf? There are racist people in this country, but I'd like to see a country without racism. I honestly believe most people in this country don't give two fucks where you're from, provided you live by the rules that our country has put in place and that you respect this country... I know that's all I ask.
This whole detention center issue is getting out of hand. A few vocal minorities have come in saying how bad it is. The media gets hold of it and tells us how it is "the shame of the nation" or some equally tripe filled headline. The sheep that are so prevalent in our population pick up on this and do what they're told and be outraged by these horrendous conditions.
I often say how much I despise the media, but it isn't really their fault, it's the fault of a society that has forgotten how to look after themselves, and need to be babysitted through their whole lives.
We're supposedly one of the most racist nations on earth, yet we've never started a war because we think someone elses race/religion/beliefs are wrong (yes, I know we have faught in them, but that's an entirely other story). How many nations on the planet can say that? Very, very few.

 

[Snrub]

Originally posted by anfalicious:
Yes they may be desperate, but for someone to do this, there has to be something instinctly wrong with them.
how is that not generalising?
some of these poor bastards might have been detained for years, kept in a country where few people speak their language and they are given little information about how their application for asylum is going, and you still think there is 'something instinctly (i think you mean instinctively?) wrong with them.'
i think a hunger strike is actually a fairly sane way of bringing attention to your cause.

 

[Tabernacle]

True enough this guy makes some valid points, and i can safely say i don't like the direction this country is heading- ie Needle Dick's suburbanite america circa 1950s (criticism of both countries thank you very much). However, he does it in such an offending way that what he says can't be taken seriously. I would have found this article as an interesting piece of social commentry if wrote in a more moderate tone and the writer wasn't such a fuckin dick

 

[evilcalvin]

LOL!This just made me laugh!How can anyone be so wrong!

 

[respect]

Sadly, I'd agree with most of the things this guy has to say. Australia is a very scary place at the moment. The only thing I'd disagree strongly with him is -
"Australia is the whitest place I’ve been in a long time, the whitest place in the English-speaking world."
Who on earth are you kidding. Country Australia maybe but certainly neither Sydney or Melbourne. England is quite ethnically diverse but great swathes of the states are as whitebread as can be. New York aside, if you discount the African Americans who were brought as slaves and the Mexicans whose land they stole very recently the US is heaps 'whiter' than Australia.

 

[josh_nexus]

Ok the fuckwit from the new york observer made his point.... now im going to counter it.
*josh procures a huge fucking trout and starts swinging*
1. If this guy is so high and mighty he should be writing for the New York Times as apposed to a paper that amounts to nothing more than a dodgy tabloid.
2. The USA does not have culture. It has corporate image.
3. How dare anyone governed by that insipid interlectual invalid know as "dubya" ever say anything against our leaders. Need I remind you that while I fucking hate John Howard he is not presently trying to set off World War 3 amid a blaze of overzealous unilateralism. Nor is he so stupid as to claim that the leveling of the world trade center was with out some sort of provocation while at the same time talking about "finishing the job" started by Storming Norman and our protagonist's (or rather antagonist) own father.
4. You want to talk about bush depopulation. Lets first talk about U.S. farming subsidies and massive protection tariffs that make it impossible for our farmers with their cheaper and better quality produce to crack the U.S. market. And then lets discuss the fact that the U.S. gets straight up on its free trade high horse everytime another country subsidises an industry in which the U.S has a comersial interest. CASE STUDY: Southern U.S. sugar cain growers receive a $618 rebate per hectare per season (or harvest) for producing an overly expensive and inferior product. They are then able to rip of U.S. consumers with a massively inflated price that has no competition because of the huge subsidies and a massive tariff wall that are able to keep out a much cheaper australian product.
5. U.S. has an inprisonment rate greater than any other weastern country and half of those in prison are african american when african americans make up only 15% of the general population population. So dont talk to us about social policy.
6. Americans are loud and obnoxious.
7. America could be blasted towards jupiter and no American would notice the difference. The rest of the world would notice, but they dont care.
i think im done......