Bupe New to Taper, have some questions...

[Pat84]

So basically I am on about 4 mg twice daily. Been on subs for two and a half years now. Before i got on subs, i had never did dope, only oxys for a couple years off and on again. Now im sick of being on subs. So i have been trying to taper, but once i start first day, i end up chickening out and don't do it. I know i won't go back to opioids, at least im confident of it. im in school now and i have no desire to use.

Thing is, i thought subs were supposed to stay in your system for a while? But once the night time comes, i can feel mild withdrawal begin to set in, with enlarged pupils and watery eyes. This is especially true if I take a nap and wake up later. Why does it start so soon?

I'm kind of a baby with this whole thing because I suffer from bad GI problems even while not on substances (i have gastroparesis and GERD and severe IBS). In fact, my stomach problems are basically what led me to using opioids in the first place, and it also plays a part in being so nervous about tapering. Please forgive me if this sounds like a dumb thing to ask: if i begin tapering and suddenly start to notice some withdrawal, like say I go down some and am at a certain level/milligram, if i remain at that tapered down level for an extended period, will my body then start to adjust to that level of taper? Is that how it works? I would assume so. But I have no idea. I honestly wish that I had stayed at 4 mg once a day instead of listening to my doctor and increasing it to 8. Any advice or help would be most appreciated. Thank you and God bless.

P.S. would a good strain of green help at all with subs withdrawals?

 

[Bracy]

What I did was wean myself. I was on same thing. Started by doing the 4mg in the morning, 2mg at night for 2 weeks. Then 2 in the morning and 2 at night. Some days were tough so I would take another 2mg around noon. Eventually life became busy I would forget the midday.
Currently I'm down to 1mg at night, sometime 1 in the after noon and 1mg at night. Everyone is different and the mental part is the hardest. You will get through my friend. Good luck

 

[Pat84]

Thank you, brother. I do expect to feel some withdrawal at first, but the body adjusts to it as you go right? If you taper slow? Also, does marijuana help with sub WDs?

 

[seedee]

i would start by cutting out one mg at a time over months. i started from 10 to 8 to 6 to 4 to 2 and finally at one was when my dose wouldn't hold me and i didn't stabilize for a year before i finally said fuck it and jumped at 1. it was painless up until getting down from 4 to 2. even then the withdrawal i did feel was minor. i imagine it will be different with you having your pre existing conditions but you can do it. most of it is mental if you have the will you will do it. key is to not rush. my slow and steady wins the race. if you ever wanna chat i'm on frequently.

 

[Pat84]

Ok, so maybe then ill go down 2 mg each month instead of weekly or bi-weekly. Thank you!

 

[Jabberwocky]

I tappered off bupe after 3 years. Max dose, briefly, was 16mg, but regular dose was 8mg. For me tapering, first to 6mg and than to 4mg wasn't even noticeable. Below 4mg was when the "fun" started. I went to 3mg, than 2mg, than 1.5mg. After I got below 2mg I really started to feel every drop. But was very motivated. Went to 1mg, than 0.5mg and then I jumped.

I thought it was going to be smooth but boy was I wrong. Month of acute withdrawal and 2 more months of transient type of withdrawals ( cold/hot , anxiety and depression, restless legs, insomnia...would come and go).

If I was going to do it all over again (life please don't be cruel, I don't want to, just making a point) I would taper even lower. I suggest you to taper down to 0.25mg and than start skipping days. Or maybe it was just me and you will be fine. But buprenorphine is a really strong and long lasting opioid. It is just that once tolerance to opioids is established we tend to belittle this really potent rascal.

Your motivation will be your biggest friend. Everybody can do it and this isn't just a cliché but also a truth. Just go slow and very low. Buprenorpine is powerful in microgram territory so if you end up splitting 3 250 microgram doses through the day - do it. I would suggest to go as low as 0.25 every other day, but there is a point when tapering is creating more problems than is resolving. To be honest I believe that we create with our mind that point but it is what it is.

You can do it man. I know cause I did it. Good luck.

Edit - and going 25% each month will give you greatest benefits. You will give your body the time to adjust to every drop and at the same time you will train your mind to wait. You know that "delayed gratification " thing...well it is really important if you want to stay off opioids. That would be my advice.

 

[ChinaGroove]

Alot of these recoery sites say withdrawl from Bupe is light, easy, etc. That couldn't be further from the truth. When I would be off Bupe for a few days, I would be twisting and turning in bed, sweating, trying just to get any amount of sleep. It felt just like any full agonist I had withdrwn from.
I wish I could tell you there was a jump off point where you won't feel anything, or at least very little.

 

[Pat84]

Alot of these recoery sites say withdrawl from Bupe is light, easy, etc. That couldn't be further from the truth. When I would be off Bupe for a few days, I would be twisting and turning in bed, sweating, trying just to get any amount of sleep. It felt just like any full agonist I had withdrwn from.
I wish I could tell you there was a jump off point where you won't feel anything, or at least very little.

When you say it felt like any agonist, was it worse or about the same?

 

[Pat84]

i would start by cutting out one mg at a time over months. i started from 10 to 8 to 6 to 4 to 2 and finally at one was when my dose wouldn't hold me and i didn't stabilize for a year before i finally said fuck it and jumped at 1. it was painless up until getting down from 4 to 2. even then the withdrawal i did feel was minor. i imagine it will be different with you having your pre existing conditions but you can do it. most of it is mental if you have the will you will do it. key is to not rush. my slow and steady wins the race. if you ever wanna chat i'm on frequently.

I may take you up on that. Thank you very much, bro.

 

[Pat84]

i would start by cutting out one mg at a time over months. i started from 10 to 8 to 6 to 4 to 2 and finally at one was when my dose wouldn't hold me and i didn't stabilize for a year before i finally said fuck it and jumped at 1. it was painless up until getting down from 4 to 2. even then the withdrawal i did feel was minor. i imagine it will be different with you having your pre existing conditions but you can do it. most of it is mental if you have the will you will do it. key is to not rush. my slow and steady wins the race. if you ever wanna chat i'm on frequently.

I may take you up on that. Thank you very much, bro.

 

[Pat84]

I truly appreciate all your guys' help and advice, thank you. One other quick question, though: is it normal to feel like you have some withdrawal when you wake up from a nap? I have quite an irregular sleep schedule and i will sometimes notice this. I wake up after a nap and maybe feel just weird...little hot flashes or sometimes my pupils might even be bigger. My wife, who used to be on regular pain management, said that sometimes that can happen but to ignore it.

 

[seedee]

I truly appreciate all your guys' help and advice, thank you. One other quick question, though: is it normal to feel like you have some withdrawal when you wake up from a nap? I have quite an irregular sleep schedule and i will sometimes notice this. I wake up after a nap and maybe feel just weird...little hot flashes or sometimes my pupils might even be bigger. My wife, who used to be on regular pain management, said that sometimes that can happen but to ignore it.

i always felt the same way you did. it was the same way if i fell asleep high as fuck i would always wake up needing to use. didn't matter whether it was bed time or just a day time doze. i feel like i am a fast metabolized. is it possible your the same?

 

[Pat84]

i always felt the same way you did. it was the same way if i fell asleep high as fuck i would always wake up needing to use. didn't matter whether it was bed time or just a day time doze. i feel like i am a fast metabolized. is it possible your the same?

It could be. My wife tells me "just wait, it'll go away", but im not sure. People keep telling me that bupe stays in your body for a long time but i feel like i can definitely feel symptoms of mild WD if i don't take it on time. Especially gastro.

 

[Pat84]

Anybody have experience using a good indica bud strain to deal with WDs? Or does weed make WDs worse? Just curious. In two weeks i plan on dropping down 2 mg (on 8 mg daily now - 4 mg twice each day) so i shouldn't have much WDs yet people are telling me. I just meant in case i feel any or once i get to a jump off. Of course, I don't plan on jumping off for many months from now. I'm going to take this as slow as i need to, even if that means I have to be on this for another 10 months. I just have heard all the horror stories of Bupe WD and it really freaks me out lol.

 

[ChinaGroove]

Depends on your dosage. I was on 8 mg a day. Typically did more than I was prescribed because I wasn't commited to the recovery aspect and wanted a buzz.
Anyway, lets say 12 mg a day for the sake of this discussion. Coming off 12 mg felt like most other opioids. Maybe a LITTLE LESS INTENSE. But not enough to say it was a breeze or anything. I never made it past day 5 of a Bupe kick but I also hear it's very drawn out and takes a while, kinda like Methadone or Fent.

 

[Pat84]

Depends on your dosage. I was on 8 mg a day. Typically did more than I was prescribed because I wasn't commited to the recovery aspect and wanted a buzz.
Anyway, lets say 12 mg a day for the sake of this discussion. Coming off 12 mg felt like most other opioids. Maybe a LITTLE LESS INTENSE. But not enough to say it was a breeze or anything. I never made it past day 5 of a Bupe kick but I also hear it's very drawn out and takes a while, kinda like Methadone or Fent.

Yeah, admittedly, I would sometimes do same thing, trying to get a buzz. I don't want to be on it anymore though so that's why im going to taper slowly.

But in regards to your experience, you are talking about your experience cold turkey obviously right? Or jump off?

 

[udogg]

I went from 12 to .5 in 3 weeks after a pretty bad opioid addiction for 10 years. I was scared to "pull off the bandaid", but I just did it. It sucked really bad for 5 days (really bad). On the 3rd day i literally thought i was going to die with every symptom imaginable. They offered and I debated going back on 2mgs for 6 months or something. I seriously considered but figured since I made it 3 days I would give it one more day. I was in rehab so I couldnt smoke pot. But after day 3 it did get a little better and by day 5 I felt a little confident I could maybe do it. For me that was the best way. I have been opioid free since December 2018. I never ever thought I could say that. Whatever way you do it (now or in 6 months), when you get to 0 it is going to suck for a little while, but at least for me there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck. You can do it. You just have to accept the pain and know eventually it will get better.

 

[ChinaGroove]

Yeah, admittedly, I would sometimes do same thing, trying to get a buzz. I don't want to be on it anymore though so that's why im going to taper slowly.

But in regards to your experience, you are talking about your experience cold turkey obviously right? Or jump off?

The best way I can put it is that when I would get low, I'd be like "shit I need to ration until...) and would try to make a little 2 mg quarter of a pill get me thru the day, save another 2 mg for the next day, so on and so fourth until I either went back to the dr or found something on the street.
So for all intents and purposes, the above withdrawl I described Is from jumping off 8-12 mg with no real taper. I would imagine jumping off from .25 would be easier than 12. But I guess my whole point is that when you hear Bupe withdrawl is "easier" than Heroin, Oxy, etc that's not entirely true.