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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

New to IV. Looking for advice/tips/pointers

Smokeage

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
23
Location
Houstoned
I have 150mg of black tar heroin right now and 10 fresh needles that i just got from cvs pharmacy. I've been smoking it but it just isn't cutting it anymore and I have decided to give the needle a try. I know what I'm getting myself into, I've been doing everything from hydrocodone to oxymorphone for the past 2 years, and in high doses at that.

What I'm looking for is any tips or pointers you may have that will help me with my first time experiencing this. I am going to be fixing up within the hour so whatever you can say to help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

~Smokeage
 
Also, I know .15 of dope isn't much, but i will be starting small. I'm thinking like maybe a third of that? About half a point?
 
that would be a good starting dose, 50-75mg.

before you delve into IV have you thought about a liquid nasal prep or even rectal adminstration? both are efficient without many of the risks involved with injecting.

some essential reading is below

this is a reasonabe IV prep technique for BTH

Heroin - The Beginners' Guide

Why you should use micron filters - Research on efficacy

Official Rectal Administration/Plugging Thread


Micron Filtering Mega Thread and FAQ

Injection; IV Complications and Info MEGATHREAD & FAQ III - I Vant To Suck Your Blood
 
I have done the liquid nasal prep multiple times before, which is kind of nice since that's what I'm used to, I usually snort roxis/dilaudid, but they haven't been around for a while so I started messing with the tar now. Basically i feel like i need to get the best bang for my buck and that is going to have to be IV. I only have .15 of dope right now and if I smoke it or snort it i will only catch a small buzz, and I am looking to actually get high, so i decided to get some rigs. I'm planning on fixing up here in about 10 minutes, so any last minute tips or tricks you might have would be appreciated. Thanks again.

~Smokeage
 
i highly recommend plugging it. it's second to IV with a reasonable rush, just a little delayed and the high is overall the same for the most part. just make sure you have cleared your bowels for maximum absorption.

if you don't need to go down the IV route, i don't suggest you start. it's easy to start a downward spiral, raising tolerance and finding it hard to going back to dosing nasally/smoking if you so desire.
 
I know what I'm getting myself into

I don't think anyone who hasn't had an addiction to IV heroin can understand what they are getting into. I don't think most people would do it if they did know.

Smokeage said:
Also, I know .15 of dope isn't much, but i will be starting small. I'm thinking like maybe a third of that? About half a point?

Completely depends on your tolerance and how potent your heroin is. Since there is no way to know in advance, the only safe thing to do is start with a small test shot. Everyone should be doing this anytime it's their first time injecting, any time it's been a while since they used, and any time it's a new batch of dope. I would say start with like 10-20mg.

The first time I injected heroin I used about 15mg and was super high, lying on the grass nodding out all day. Of course that dope may have been higher potency than what you have, or you might have a higher tolerance than I had at the time, but you can't know beforehand and I really wouldn't want to see you OD. If you start with a small amount, you can gauge how strong it is and better be able to decide how much more to do.

Definitely check out all the threads tentram posted and please let us know if you have any questions :)

Also please check back in and let us know if you're ok :)
 
Thanks for all the replys guys. I am fine. I did 3 shots with about 50mg each. It was the smartest thing to do regarding safety, but it would have been much better had I just dosed once with the whole .15, but it being my first time with IV I had to start slow. Not a bad experience all in all though.

I had some trouble registering, though. It took me 2-3 tries before I successfully registered. Any tips/pointers regarding that? I'm using half inch needles, how far should they be in my arm to be in the vein? Maybe like halfway-3/4 in? I guess it all comes with more practice and experience.

And the rigs I was able to get are .5ml (half cc)/28 gage. I tried to get 1cc but they didn't have them. The half cc doesn't seem like it can hold too much. (1cc is like a bigger/wider barrel than a half cc, correct?) How much tar do you think I would be able to fit into one of these half cc rigs? And how many units of water should i be using for every .1 of tar?

And one more question: What would you all suggest the best way to prepare/cook this stuff is? I just dissolved it with water in a spoon and heated it up some with a lighter under it, then threw in a small piece of cotton from a q-tip to filter. From there I just withdrew from the cotton and pushed the air out and went at it. Am I doing everything right for the most part? Would you change anything?

I also had a little trouble getting all of the little teeny tiny air bubbles out. Is it a problem/big deal if there are just a few of those tiny bubbles left in there? I think it would be easier to get all the air out if I had a 1cc syringe (if they are wider than the half cc which is what I am assuming)

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the feedback, and if you all can answer some of these questions that would be great!

~Smokeage
 
I had some trouble registering, though. It took me 2-3 tries before I successfully registered. Any tips/pointers regarding that? I'm using half inch needles, how far should they be in my arm to be in the vein? Maybe like halfway-3/4 in? I guess it all comes with more practice and experience.

use the "vacuum" registering method. simply pull back the plunger a little as you first insert the needle to create a vacuum seal, so as soon as you enter the vein it will flag/register and have blood flow into the syringe meaning you've successfully entered the vein. enter it as parallel/small as angle as possible. depending on what vein you use will determine how far in the tip will be.

And the rigs I was able to get are .5ml (half cc)/28 gage. I tried to get 1cc but they didn't have them. The half cc doesn't seem like it can hold too much. (1cc is like a bigger/wider barrel than a half cc, correct?) How much tar do you think I would be able to fit into one of these half cc rigs? And how many units of water should i be using for every .1 of tar?

you should be able to fit a minimum of 2 points. i generally like to use as little water needed when mixing. 40 units to a point is reasonable enough. i abhor 1/2cc barrels and prefer short tips as well. as i inject morphine sulfate i usually find myself using 3 and 5ml barrels because of the solubility of morphine sulfate is between 40-60mg/mL.

And one more question: What would you all suggest the best way to prepare/cook this stuff is? I just dissolved it with water in a spoon and heated it up some with a lighter under it, then threw in a small piece of cotton from a q-tip to filter. From there I just withdrew from the cotton and pushed the air out and went at it. Am I doing everything right for the most part? Would you change anything?

what you did seems fine. though, if at all possible try to avoid using heat. i do recognise most people use some heat when prepping BTH as it isn't as easy to mix up with room temp water, just use as little heat as possible to avoid having cuts which are/may be insoluble unless heat is added. try to get in the practice of using a micron filter as well, especially with tar as it can be cut with some nasty shit as compared to other street drugs, your veins will thank you in the long run.

a few tiny air bubbles are nothing to worry about. i think it's around 1-3cc of air entering the vein which can start to get dangerous and possibly lead to death from embolism - blocking main arteries and blood flow for eg.

it sounds you did everything successfully. so now the aim is to keep IVing to a minimum, save it for special occasions!

good luck and stay safe!
 
Welcome to needle land leave your sanity and money at the door. Here's some lies and abcess's to get you started.

I seriously wish I stuch to smokin. The needle just about cuts it yet I am veinless, the previous advice is good.

Focus on harm reduction is smart.
 
Glad you decided to start with a smaller shot and that you're alright :)

tentram's advice is spot-on. Vacuum method FTW :)
use the "vacuum" registering method. simply pull back the plunger a little as you first insert the needle to create a vacuum seal, so as soon as you enter the vein it will flag/register and have blood flow into the syringe meaning you've successfully entered the vein. enter it as parallel/small as angle as possible. depending on what vein you use will determine how far in the tip will be.
Just to be clear, you have to insert the needle a little before pulling back on the plunger, to make sure it has a seal and so will actually be creating a vacuum and not just letting air in. Keep inserting it and as soon as some blood enters the syringe, stop moving the needle and then pull back on the plunger a little more to make sure more blood enters showing it's still in the vein. Then start injecting slowly. Also insert the needle at a shallow angle and with the bevel on the needle facing up.

It's best to hold the syringe in such a way that you can insert, register and inject without removing your hand from the syringe. Here's one example of how to hold it, but you can play around and see what feels best for you:
NSFW:
A9pbn.jpg


And the rigs I was able to get are .5ml (half cc)/28 gage. I tried to get 1cc but they didn't have them. The half cc doesn't seem like it can hold too much. (1cc is like a bigger/wider barrel than a half cc, correct?) How much tar do you think I would be able to fit into one of these half cc rigs? And how many units of water should i be using for every .1 of tar?

A 1CC or 1ml syringe holds 1CC/1ml of liquid, whereas a 1/2CC/.5ml syringe holds 1/2CC/.5ml of liquid (up to the lines). But in reality you wouldn't want to put that much liquid in because you need to have space to be able to pull back and register. If you fill it too full, it makes registering difficult. As to whether the barrel on a 1CC is wider, I think it depends on the brand, it is usually a little wider plus longer, here's a pic:
NSFW:
Insulin-Syringe-1CC-29GX1-2-.jpg
Anyway, 1CCs aren't necessary with heroin, and they often come with thicker/longer needles, so that's something to keep in mind/check. But with a 1CC you don't have to be as worried about putting in too much water. You can measure the water you're going to be adding in the syringe first, then squirt it into your spoon, so you have a rough idea of how much liquid there will be in the final solution (it may change very slightly because if you're heating it some water might evaporate or some cuts might get dissolved that add to the volume of water). You should be able to fit a lot of heroin in a very small volume of water. How much water you use is really up to you, as long as you don't use so much that it can't fit in the syringe or fills it up.

And one more question: What would you all suggest the best way to prepare/cook this stuff is? I just dissolved it with water in a spoon and heated it up some with a lighter under it, then threw in a small piece of cotton from a q-tip to filter. From there I just withdrew from the cotton and pushed the air out and went at it. Am I doing everything right for the most part? Would you change anything?
I would use a micron filter if at all possible, or at least a Sterifilt or something. I would also try to avoid heating it if possible and just try stirring it. The actual heroin should be able to dissolve without heat and any cuts that don't dissolve you wouldn't want to dissolve anyway. This is a matter of controversy on here, with most people saying it's best to not heat it at all so that the cuts that aren't soluble in room temp water don't dissolve, but some people saying tar needs heat to dissolve and/or that you should heat it because heat might kill off some bacteria/viruses if present (although if you're using sterile syringes/filters/cookers there shouldn't be much bacteria/viruses and heating for a short time does not sterilize it, only kills some things). I would clean your spoon with alcohol before each prep, or use a sterile cooker (which should also be cleaned before each use). And use sterile water. I guess it's hard to get this stuff if you live in Texas :(

I also had a little trouble getting all of the little teeny tiny air bubbles out. Is it a problem/big deal if there are just a few of those tiny bubbles left in there?
No, it actually takes a lot of air to cause problems, like a lot more than you could fit in a 1/2CC or 1CC syringe. But it's still best to get as much of the air out as possible. Turn the syringe upside-down (needle pointing up), then flick the barrel with your fingernail to get the air to all go to the top, then slowly push up on the plunger to eject all the air without ejecting any of your liquid.

Other tips:
Never re-use syringes. This is horrible for your veins and makes it harder to register. Even if you just are having trouble registering and haven't actually injected with that syringe yet, switch the liquid into a fresh syringe and start again.
See this pic:
NSFW:
Used%20needles.jpg
 
I thought an acid like vinegar or lemon juice was necessary when preparing black tar #3 heroin?

Short story: Tar heroin should not require an acid to get it to dissolve, it's acidic already.

Long story:
Tar heroin doesn't have a number. I hate the number system. I think it confuses people more often than it makes things clear. The number system was devised by the US DEA in the early 1970s, focused on the heroin market of that era, and is frequently mis-used.

Nowadays most people don't use the original numbering system properly. What likely happened is that someone read the DEA article which mentioned the heroin number system and assumed that all heroin that could be smoked was heroin #3. In fact most people now call heroin base "#3 heroin". Base heroin does require acid and heat to dissolve. The numbers are so misused (and pointless IMO) that I prefer to not use the numbers at all.

The original DEA number system, as I understand it, is as follows:

Heroin #1: morphine (in commodity form, specifically manufactured to sell to heroin #4 producers)
Heroin #2: heroin base
Heroin #3: #4 heroin with 40% caffeine added to make it conducive for smoking
Heroin #4: heroin hydrochoride (hcl), made specifically for injection

Black tar heroin is formed from the incomplete acetylation of morphine, producing a relatively crude and unrefined opiate product which is easier/cheaper to produce than pure heroin hcl. Although black tar heroin can be injected (if you don't mind wrecking your veins), it's not technically heroin #4, because heroin #4 is pure heroin hydrochloride (although on the street it's always cut with fillers and therefore not technically "pure"), and I think that BTH may be heroin acetate - it smells like vinegar and acetic acid is the main component of vinegar. Maybe BTH doesn't have a number because it was not prevalent back in the early 70s?
 
Oh i thought it was numbered by process of purification. #3 being base, and #4 a hydrochloride. I guess we can only be sure about #4 being the salt. My confusion was that Tar Heroin is a salt not a base... I was thinking of brown base heroin. I was speculating I have never seen any but the hydrochloric salt.
 
Great advice, SwimmingDancer. I just obtained some more tar, .3 today, and went in for my second experience with IV. Things went much better this evening. I broke off a third or so of the chunk so I did roughly 100mg in one shot this time. I took your advice on the vacuum method and it worked perfectly, I hit myself on the first try and everything went smoothly.

I now have a question about average potency for BTH in the south, I know it can vary greatly and there is really no telling how pure it is, but I'm just looking for a general average if someone can give one. The reason i ask is because I thought that shooting .1 would give me a nice rush and get me pretty high. Well... I didn't really get a rush like I was expecting. I just felt it come on slowly and in about 3 minutes I was high. I am fairly certain (99% sure) that I was in the vein because I used the vacuum method, saw the blood enter the rig, then pulled the plunger back to further register and more blood did indeed flow into the rig, I then held it in place steadily and slowly injected the goodness, so I don't know why I didn't get a better 'rush'. The only reason I can think of is that my tolerance is higher than I thought or this is just some weak tar. To give you an idea of my current tolerance here is what I usually dose: OXY: Snort 30mg for a very slight buzz - snort 60-90mg for a nice high and maybe a few nods. OXY (OP FORM): Chew up and swallow 80mg for a decent buzz - 120mg for a decent high. OPANA ER: Chew up and swallow 40mg for a slight buzz - 80-120mg for a good high. TAR (SMOKED): .1 for a decent buzz - .2/.3 for a nice high.

So What can you guys conclude from this information? Does it sound like my tar is weak or do i just need to shoot more because of my tolerance? Thanks for any opinions on this.

~Smokeage

PS: I am only kind of buzzed now and I did the shot about one hour ago. I want to do another one. Any advice on waiting periods between shots? Would I be okay doing another point? Or should I maybe do a bit less?
 
Great advice, SwimmingDancer. I just obtained some more tar, .3 today, and went in for my second experience with IV. Things went much better this evening. I broke off a third or so of the chunk so I did roughly 100mg in one shot this time. I took your advice on the vacuum method and it worked perfectly, I hit myself on the first try and everything went smoothly.
Good to hear :) I'm glad to be of help, I don't want people to make the same mistakes I did when I was injecting heroin. I wish Bluelight was around back when I first started using it.

I now have a question about average potency for BTH in the south, I know it can vary greatly and there is really no telling how pure it is, but I'm just looking for a general average if someone can give one.
I don't live near you, but in my experience potency can vary GREATLY. For example in the same week I got the same weight of heroin from 3 different suppliers: one didn't give me any effect at all, one gave average/good effects, whereas one caused my to overdose and stop breathing. The only way to really know if your supply is relatively decent or not is to ask any friends who use regularly or try different suppliers. Make sure you ALWAYS do a small test shot when getting a new batch, even if it's from the same dealer.

The reason i ask is because I thought that shooting .1 would give me a nice rush and get me pretty high. Well... I didn't really get a rush like I was expecting. I just felt it come on slowly and in about 3 minutes I was high. I am fairly certain (99% sure) that I was in the vein because I used the vacuum method, saw the blood enter the rig, then pulled the plunger back to further register and more blood did indeed flow into the rig, I then held it in place steadily and slowly injected the goodness, so I don't know why I didn't get a better 'rush'. The only reason I can think of is that my tolerance is higher than I thought or this is just some weak tar.

To give you an idea of my current tolerance here is what I usually dose: OXY: Snort 30mg for a very slight buzz - snort 60-90mg for a nice high and maybe a few nods. OXY (OP FORM): Chew up and swallow 80mg for a decent buzz - 120mg for a decent high. OPANA ER: Chew up and swallow 40mg for a slight buzz - 80-120mg for a good high. TAR (SMOKED): .1 for a decent buzz - .2/.3 for a nice high.
Hmm... the "rush" can vary from person to person and batch to batch. Your tolerance doesn't sound all that high to me and it doesn't sound like you are greatly underdosing the heroin for "average" heroin (if there is such a thing), maybe a little. A high tolerance also shouldn't prevent you from feeling a rush, I had a tolerance requiring me to inject over a gram a day just to keep out of withdrawals and I still got a rush even when using small amounts. But we are all different and our perception of what a "rush" is may be different. I'm sorry I can't be of more help there. I would avoid chasing the rush, it can lead to injecting really frequently just to feel the rush.

What effects did you get from the 100mg shot?

I am only kind of buzzed now and I did the shot about one hour ago. I want to do another one. Any advice on waiting periods between shots? Would I be okay doing another point? Or should I maybe do a bit less?
An hour later is enough time to do another shot, but maybe try a smaller one just to be on the safe side. You really have to get familiar with what you can handle in order be able to dose yourself safely. We can't tell you how much is safe just from an internet description, it varies so much from person to person. The margin between the perfect high and death is very slim. It's always better to do too little than too much. Plus you don't want your tolerance to skyrocket, which can happen very rapidly with IV heroin.
 
Thanks for the reply SD.

I agree with you that my tolerance isn't too high, I guess i was just expecting more from that shot, it left me a little disappointed, but that's okay. I used to be really big on the original Opana ERs, I was getting them by the dozens and blowing them all the time, it caused my tolerance to sky rocket really fast, I was blowing a 40mg pill 3-5 times per day. Well, I got locked up in January and spent 6 months in jail, so my tolerance went back down and I have only been using for a little over two months now, so it's not too bad, yet... But I think what I am 'chasing' is the high that I got from blowing Opana. It was really intense and had a ton of euphoria + sedation and it never got old, it got me good every time. I haven't been able to get that intense euphoria since I've been out of jail and i suppose I am trying to find it, hence why I decided to try the needle. I'm sure I can find what I'm looking for with it, I just need to experiment and find the right dose.

I will be getting some roxis sometime this week and plan on shooting one up to see how that is.. Is it pretty similar to shooting dope? How is it different?
 
At some point, chasing that euphoria just becomes a pipe dream and opioids never have quite the same magic again. I remember a long time ago I saw an anti-heroin ad that said something like "You'll never get as high as you did at first, but you may die trying," Which I thought was pretty accurate.

But yeah, you may just need to find the right dose (or supplier?) for you - but please be very careful because I've seen a lot of people OD trying to get that perfect high.

Do you mean real Roxicodone, Xanodyne Pharmaceuticals' immediate release oxycodone tablets, which come in 15 mg (green), and 30 mg (blue)? (just asking because sometimes I've seen people use roxis as slang for oxycodone in general). I haven't injected these personally, but I can tell you what I know about them. If you're going to inject these, you should really be using a micron filter to filter the solution, the bonders/fillers in them are not good to inject. The tablets contain: oxycodone, microcrystalline cellulose, sodium starch glycolate, corn starch, lactose, stearic acid, and dye. Personally I wouldn't bother injecting them. Most (but not all) people say there is no rush and all it really does is give a faster onset compared to taking them orally.
 
I have 150mg of black tar heroin right now and 10 fresh needles that i just got from cvs pharmacy. I've been smoking it but it just isn't cutting it anymore and I have decided to give the needle a try. I know what I'm getting myself into, I've been doing everything from hydrocodone to oxymorphone for the past 2 years, and in high doses at that.

What I'm looking for is any tips or pointers you may have that will help me with my first time experiencing this. I am going to be fixing up within the hour so whatever you can say to help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

~Smokeage

The best tip that anyone can give you is don't start using the needle at all.
It starts off being more economical but that won't last for long. You will find that you will sink into your addiction at a much faster rate than if you just smoked it.
You also run the risk of damaging veins, possibly hitting an artery,disease or a nice big infected abcess.
Believe me,its just not worth it mate.
 
I will try to find that 'right dose' tomorrow or sometime this weekend. When I mentioned Roxis, I do indeed mean 30mg instant release oxycodone. I can get them every now and then as well as the OP oxys but I wouldn't even bother trying to take the OPs any other way than orally. Can you elaborate a little more on a micron filter? What exactly is it and how does it work? Where/how would I obtain one?
 
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