New member, overcoming dependence to opiates. Need advice

[Andariel]

I know there are literally HUNDREDS of these posts, but I think a lot of people post their own simply to feel less alone, like they're part of this odd kind of family structure. That is actually why I decided to create an account, and begin posting.

I have Systemic Lupus, Vocal Cord Cancer, and a grocery list of problems to justify what I did to myself, but I can no longer justify the damage I have done to my body, soul, and relationships (both platonic and romantic). I was first prescribed the basic 5/500's back in '08 to help with the crippling arthritis from my SLE. God, I wish I hadn't complained looking back. It wasn't worth it. None of the pains I've endured were worth this.

In recollection, I can see where I didn't really need them anymore, off and on periods of months without any intolerable pain levels, yet I continued lying and saying I hurt to maintain the habit I had now formed. I was now by all means of the word, and Addict. If I stopped, I'd get sick. I remember trying here and there for YEARS, alone, confused, upset and lost. I couldn't make it past the 2 day mark at my best try.

Now, let me tell you my current story. I feel it is far more relevant.

I have been seeing a Pain Management Doctor for almost a full year now, and I never used any other drugs than what she gave to me which were 10/325 Lortab 4x/day. That didn't work for long. If I over used my allotment, I'd buy what I needed to make it to the refill. I hurt, so I saw nothing really wrong with that. $100 went to $3k in a month real fast this year, and I can safely say I abused this medication.

about six months ago I began dating an older man that lived a very clean and healthy lifestyle. I began to envy him immediately for what he saw as such a basic attribute. He never judged my pill usage, nobody ever has due to the known health problems I've faced. Then, about two months ago I became really sick. I just knew something wasn't right anymore. My right side of my abdomen would randomly ache and throb, then I realized it was usually close to my last dose. Liver problems, I assume. Being that I attended two brief years at an

Ivy League school, I used my smarts I still had left in my opiate hazed mind of mine.

Shit. That's all I could really say. Every time it hurt, "Shit." Not, "Hey, this is bad. Let's stop what's causing this and make it better." That began to scare me. I truly believe I was literally poisoning myself with EVERY SINGLE pill I took. At times I'd shake and debate that dose. "Ah, fuck it." Ignored conscious again.

Then the renal symptoms started. That was the real shaker, the big wake up, the enlightenment if one will.

Dark urine, actual kidney pain on the left. Smelly urine, even on a purely water diet to test my theory of self destruction.
Again, "Shit."

That's when I knew it was time to stop. Easier said than done, however, as most know well.

I came here first, for encouragement, understanding, knowledge, and a better idea of what to expect. Though it helped, it still didn't prepare me for what came later.

Last Friday I took what I plan to be my final Lortab.

Today marks 8 days, at 5:30 pm to be exact, without an actual opiate taken. Though I have started feeling my body 'needing' to move, I lack the will power from my true pain I had tried so hard to kill away for all these years. It's been unbearable, and I know its not the lack of opiates. Day 8, no chills, no mood swings or depression, I WANT to get out and move but I hurt so badly. Yesterday I forced myself to pace my large flat many times, many hours, to simulate a 'walk.' That felt good once I got going. Then, I decided to do some stretches. Not bad! Well, cocky me chose some very minor upper body work outs, basically just pushing yourself off of a counter a few times. I think I proudly did 30 and smiled. Don't push it, because today I woke up in agonizing pain throughout my upper back and shoulders, and no opiates to relieve it like I've become so used to.

I told my doctor I was off Lortab for 7 days yesterday but wanted a non narcotic pain reliever to occasionally use for this pain I will always feel. I understand Tramadol is much worse if one becomes addicted, however I am not addicted to a high or feeling, just rather interested in a Hail Mary of sorts.

I took one today about an hour ago, no high and the pain is tolerable again. I can move.

I worry this will only worsen my progress however, though I'm aware it is NOT an actual opiate but a synthetic designed to imitate the effects of actual opiates.

I truly do not wish to prolong my withdrawal, but perhaps this will help?

I tried klonopin during the first 2-3 days, not dependent.

I want you to truly understand I am not subbing one for another here, but trying to get over this hump in my process. I feel like if that is what allows me to eat, exercise, and get around ok for a bit then what the hell. I'm not craving narcotics, I will also add. I have many but they've stayed in their bottle in my drawer since my last dose.

Is Tramadol ok for a small amount of time, after the initial withdrawal process? For instance, once one has started feeling stable and no longer "dying" inside? I feel like this isn't too early, therefore the risks are low. I tried pot for the first time yesterday, really did not enjoy it. Tried it this morning to ease pain, nothing but frustrated waiting for it to wear off. Then a hot epsom bath in my big tub, then a half of a muscle relaxer, still nothing but annoyance.

That's when I decided to pick up the Tramadol script.

I do not want to use this for the next day or two and regret it. Anybody have any personal experience here? Yes, it's addicting. Yes, it is like an opiate. No, I do not need to ease the withdrawals anymore.

Thank you for reading, I hope you have an amazing morning/day/night!

 

[neversickanymore]

Andariel welcome to BL:D

How many pills were you taking a day and were you useing cold water extraction to remove the opiates from the acetaminophen?

Have you seen a physician about this?

 

[neversickanymore]

im going to throw this up to BDD for awhile and it can get moved back to recovery at anytime.

I just knew something wasn't right anymore. My right side of my abdomen would randomly ache and throb, then I realized it was usually close to my last dose. Liver problems, I assume.

I would see a doctor and have at least metabolic and liver blood tests done. I would do this as soon as possible. if it were me i would already be on the way to the er to get checked out. not saying this is what is going on, but given your story and symptoms i think it should be checked asap

the pills you have been taking in huge doses contain Tylenol.

FDA Sets Acetaminophen Dose Limit, Warns of Liver Damage

CHRONIC ACETAMINOPHEN POISONING
Chronic excessive use or repeated overdoses cause hepatotoxicity in a few patients. Usually, chronic overdose is not an attempt at self-injury but instead results from taking inappropriately high doses to treat pain. Symptoms may be absent or may include any of those that occur with acute overdose.

Symptoms and Signs
Mild poisoning may not cause symptoms, and when present, symptoms are usually minor until ≥ 48 h after ingestion. Symptoms, which occur in 4 stages (see Table 5: Stages of Acute Acetaminophen PoisoningTables), include anorexia, nausea, vomiting, and right upper quadrant abdominal pain. Renal failure and pancreatitis may occur, occasionally without liver failure. After > 5 days, hepatotoxicity resolves or progresses to multiple organ failure, which can be fatal.

The most common symptom of acute pancreatitis is pain. Almost everybody with acute pancreatitis experiences pain.

The pain may come on suddenly or build up gradually. If the pain begins suddenly, it is typically very severe. If the pain builds up gradually, it starts out mild but may become severe.
The pain is usually centered in the upper middle or upper left part of the belly (abdomen). The pain is often described as if it radiates from the front of the abdomen through to the back.

Pancreatitis Symptoms Acute Pancreatitis Symptoms

Liver Disease

A strong urine odor can be a sign of liver disease. Other symptoms of liver disease include nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, yellow skin or eyes, weakness, bloating, and weight loss. See your doctor right away if you have symptoms of liver disease. Untreated liver disease can be life threatening

http://www.healthline.com/symptom/abnormal-urine-odor


So i am not a doctor and this was presented for your consideration and not as any type of diagnoses.

i hope your doing better and decide to get this checked out.

 

[Andariel]

Oh, no. I go to the doctor regularly. Since getting off the opiates my kidney doesn't ache, etc.
That was not really my huge concern. I have some medical school experience and can tell when to go to the hospital for those things. I knew it was the Lortab, I never took it any way other than as prescribed, in pill form. So yes, a lot of Tylenol. I hated that.

 

[Andariel]

I have cancer, so I get these tests done monthly. I think the chemo pushed everything over the edge, thus it was time to stop the opiates. Not worth it.
I am sure I would have experienced what you've mentioned if I hadn't stopped.

 

[PotatoMan]

once your eyes and gums aren't turning yellow then there's no immediate damage to worry about. As for the future, well only time can tell.

You sound like you're in so much pain and it sounds horrible. Have you tried basic things like advil? or meditation and becoming one with the pain. accepting it as a challenge you've been given and you're stronger than it. Opioids may not kill you or damage your organs but chronic acetaminophen consumption will.

The tramadol may just get you addicted and then the withdrawal will repeat. Sadly enough painkillers are only band-aids

 

[neversickanymore]

Oh, no. I go to the doctor regularly. Since getting off the opiates my kidney doesn't ache, etc.
That was not really my huge concern. I have some medical school experience and can tell when to go to the hospital for those things. I knew it was the Lortab, I never took it any way other than as prescribed, in pill form. So yes, a lot of Tylenol. I hated that.

Good to hear your doing good. Doctors are usually awful at diagnosing themselfs.

We can slide this back to tds.

Addiction and physical dependence are very different beasts. It can help a great deal to seperate them when we plan for and eventually work through them.

On the addiction front, and please take this knowing that I say this with no judgment and do not wish or intend to agrivate you in any fashion, but to overcome addiction we need to become totally honest. If we don't then we end up falling for the lies we tell ourselves and this means failure.

The addicted portion of our brain lies lies lies.. then when its called it can confabulate like no other.. its smooth, but totally full of shit.

Its essential that we strive and work toward reality and totall honesty. This is very common with addicts.. probably one of the reasons we can become so popular with those we are close to in the end of active use.

We also need to make sure we dont fall for our own nonsense. Given your inteligence your going to be up against a cunning opponent; )

How could you be taking the pills as prescribed when you were adding 300O on top of your script every month?

Im not yanking your chain to be a dick and im sorry if im confused and have that all wrong.

The phisical dependece is what everyone focuses on as its unpleasant, but it ends up being the easy part.

With addiction its important, a little wacked, and scarry, not to mention hard to accept, that we cant trust our own minds.

Learn how it works and you will no longer get played by its game.

 

[crzydiamond]

You do not want to be taking tramadol right after the acute stage of opioid withdrawal. Tramadol is an opioid, albeit a weak one, that also has SNRI (antidepressant ) properties

Your body won't be able to recover through the normal process if you take this--it's like taking codeine at this time. You should be just getting sleep somewhat regulated, experience pain more than normal, possibly have some PAWS, and generally be on the upswing. Taking tramadol will just reset the opiate clock --it hits the opiate receptors in the brain and keeps them activated

If you take tramadol daily you will go through wd all over again when you stop. And some say its worse than regular opioid wd cause if the SNRI wd thrown in. You did great getting off the hydrocodone, don't put yourself back in the same boat

If you must take them, as in can't get thru without the tramadol, don't take it daily. Take it when absolutely a necessity.

Daily use will just lead to going through the hell of withdrawal again. Some doctor say tramadol is "opioid like" and they used to say it was a non-addictive replacement for people who couldn't take opioids, but that thinking is outdated. Tramadol causes opioid withdrawal. Don't be the victim of bad information!!

 

[neversickanymore]

bdd--->tds

 

[bdomihizayka]

The tramadol is only going to prolong/ supress the withdrawal from the hydrocodone.

And yes, tramadol withdrawal is lots worse than a regular opiate withdrawal to many, me included.

You're kinda all over the place- I cannot really understand what your objective is here. If it's just to use tramadol for a short time to get past withdrawals from hydrocodone- then yea, no, that's just going to hurt and put you back!

Are you looking to stay on a medication for pain- you didn't like the hydrocodone because of tolerance?


There's obviously many opiate/ opioids to choose from that can help with the pain. Maybe you should consider talking to your doctor about an extended release formulation.

Don't kid yourself when you say you weren't chasing a high at all though - "Normal" people don't go out of their way and spend thousands of dollars on medicine from the streets for legitimate reasons- they talk to their doctor.