New charges planned for drink/drug driving (VIC)

[ayjay]

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/NewsRoom/News+Releases/DrunkeAndDruggedDriversFaceNewCharge.htm

The penalty for being drunk and drug affected is massive - $2800 and a 12 month licence suspension

The legislation isn't in place yet - but it won't be too long...

 

[aussie101]

This is an interesting topic.

From my view point when I was a severe drug addict I could drive any where I wanted whilst on anything i wanted. I was invincible. I had two serious car accidents whilst "having drugs in my system", one was because i nodded off. I also had an insurance company pursuing me for a large amount of money from writing off several cars. Luckily I did not kill any one and only injured myself. I am currently in a transitional period of learning that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable.

I am all about beating the law on the laws terms - there will undoubtably be new precedents made in court-rooms within weeks (of the law being enacted) that one can use to get charges dropped and/or get the penalty reduced. There is also the well known "section 10" where one does not get a conviction recorded, not to mention the "mental illness" defence aka "section 32" of the law code. Furthermore one can also decline to be tested, which may lead to a different penalty all together.

Law is a system that is elastic/distortable and changes depending on the subjectivity/perspective of the police, the magistrate/judge, the lawyer(s)/barrister(s), how well you know your rights and laws/precedents etc. Not to mention appealing local court decisions in the district court and as a last resort in the supreme court.

This measure is in place as deterrence. At least the "minimum penalty" (which does not always apply) is not jail time.

 

[laugh]

its not going to change a fucking thing. fucking ridiculous. tax the poor tax the poor.

so many paper pushers pushing paper and creating more stupid legislation and laws.

people are stupid!

 

[One Thousand Words]

So they aren't going to charge the rich?

I don't see this so much as a deterrent rather a punishment and I think that is better. People don't care what might happen, they only worry when they get caught. I don't know anyone who doesn't drink drive because they will lose their licence, rather that they might get caught. Most drink drivers are habitual, I have mates who no matter what you do will always think they can drive home drunk.

 

[laugh]

the rich can deal with the consequences of a piddly fine a lot easier than some poor cunt on minimum wage.

so if punishment isnt woking then why continue it? you said it yourself its habitual and will continue to happen? band aid solution anyone? why not attempt to resolve the problem..

making money and getting rich should not be the means to an end yet that is obviously how you think and how we are programmed. think bigger brother, instead of just for yourself and your own little family.

 

[One Thousand Words]

I didn't say they shouldn't be punished. Don't forget it is also 12 month ban, rich or poor

 

[laugh]

thats not what i said busty, i think you know that.

a thousand or two thousand dollar bill hurts a poor person whereas some smart ass driving a bmw isnt even going to flinch, that is not right, and is not working/helping.

People don't care what might happen, they only worry when they get caught.

so how does a punishment work or help? i dont understand?

I have mates who no matter what you do will always think they can drive home drunk.

so what are you saying the current system of fear and punishment is not working? i agree, as smart as people are surely we can come up with a better solution?

i dont want to put words in your mouth so to speak! but what exactly are you saying? punishment and fear is not working for your mates so we as a society should push more fear and create heftier punishment? does not compute..

 

[One Thousand Words]

I think harsher punishments for drink/drunk driving is the way to go. It isn't a tax because if you do the right thing you don't have to pay it. Its the same as speeding fines. No one forces you to break the speed limit but if you choose to push the limits then you can only blame yourself.

 

[laugh]

yes thats all well and good but like you said it does not work.

People don't care what might happen, they only worry when they get caught. I don't know anyone who doesn't drink drive because they will lose their licence, rather that they might get caught. Most drink drivers are habitual

i totally agree with this statement!

personally i think we should be punishing less and educating more. getting a licence should involve mandatory advanced driving courses. getting a licence has become a lot more difficult to obtain but its still rather lame imo.
public transport is practically non existent in our country, in the major cities and absolutely pathetic in rural or country areas. our roads are a joke. roads are either old and windy single lane, or three lane freeway but motorists can still only do at the very maximum 110kms. with freeway type roads the speed limit really needs to be increased, driving between sydney and central coast or between gold coast and brisbane there should be at least one lane where the speed limit is increased, other countries have them why dont we. i believe 150kms is manageable and safe on these new freeway type roads.

why dont we have such ridiculous speed limits and laws because driving are not educated or trained enough. people come out of the cities and out into the countries for a scentic drive for some fresh air come to a bend in the road and drive off, or they see the speed limit is above a 50 zone and get death wobbles.

i think i heard the other day by 2090 Australia's population will have doubled, so by the time we are wearing nappies there is going to be atleast half as many australians again. if we cannot manage our shit now god help us what australia will be like then..

have a good day busty

 

[One Thousand Words]

Punishing less? That's why we have a generation of kids who don't give a fuck. Slapped on the wrist their whole life. Deterrents won't stop them, but heavy fines will punish.

 

[Mel22]

I agree with this. Whilst it may be habitual for a lot of people, I don't think we can definitively state that significantly harsher laws will not act as a deterrent to at least some. Even if that is the case, drink drivers are off the road much quicker, or face even harsher penalties if they continue the behaviour.

Drink/drug/combo driving is stupid, reckless and it kills. I don't do it, and I am more than happy for those that do to face harsher penalties.

The fact that this law is applicable to a combination of drugs and alcohol in the system, or driving with a high BAC is good. I would be very concerned if it were that I could smoke a joint the night before and test positive and face these penalties.

 

[laugh]

Pretty cold and selfish imo!

It does not work you said it yourself. We have been playing the punishment game for too long time for change and improvement. Whipping a dead dog.

These people have been punished their whole life. They need some help and compassion not more punishment and fear.

 

[Mel22]

Pretty cold and selfish imo!

In what respect? When making statements to this effect, please quote me and at least attempt to provide some justification.

It does not work you said it yourself.

Again - please quote me when making such statements. Please do not put words in my mouth. I encourage you to read posts thoroughly before replying.

We have been playing the punishment game for too long time for change and improvement. Whipping a dead dog.

Attempting to get these people off the road quicker is not only punishment. Do you have a solution? No "punishment" you think? It's easy to slam, but it is meaningless if you do not provide and back up an alternative solution to the problem.

These people have been punished their whole life. They need some help and compassion not more punishment and fear.

Who are "these people?" You know them all, do you? Perhaps some do need help and compassion. Perhaps they don't. You don't know, and either do I. You are spouting very one-sided and somewhat irrational opinions with no basis.

Those that lose a loved one due to the stupidity, selfishness and recklessness of drink/drug drivers are indeed punished their whole life. We can "help" these people by getting them off the road before they kill themselves or someone else, and by having them attend the mandatory education courses that follow.

 

[laugh]

I don't do it, and I am more than happy for those that do to face harsher penalties.

In what respect? When making statements to this effect, please quote me and at least attempt to provide some justification.

Again - please quote me when making such statements. Please do not put words in my mouth. I encourage you to read posts thoroughly before replying.

its not about you mel, it never was, im glad you entered the thread with such authority though.

Do you have a solution?

do you?

No "punishment" you think?

is that what i said? quote?

It's easy to slam, but it is meaningless if you do not provide and back up an alternative solution to the problem.

who is slamming mel? where is your solution and evidence of it success?
settle down mate

Those that lose a loved one due to the stupidity, selfishness and recklessness of drink/drug drivers are indeed punished their whole life.

could see that one coming.

We can "help" these people by getting them off the road before they kill themselves or someone else, and by having them attend the mandatory education courses that follow.

that has been working well? maybe we should bring back the guillotine?

 

[Mel22]

its not about you mel, it never was, im glad you entered the thread with such authority though.

I was clearly referring to the fact that you completely misquoted me - what a silly thing for you to say!

is that what i said? quote?

The question mark at the end of that sentence meant that it was simply a question, LAUGHdear. Nice try though.

who is slamming mel? where is your solution and evidence of it success?

You are quite obviously slamming this new law...I'm surprised that we're going over this actually...lol. I support it, so no need for an alternative theory on my end.

that has been working well? maybe we should bring back the guillotine?

Lol, that's so silly that I'm not even going to touch it.

You have not referred to anything relevant to this discussion, and are simply deflecting. For some unknown reason, you have taken my post as a personal attack and have jumped on the defense - I was merely trying to engage in a discussion...but I guess it just was not meant to be. So, unless you can engage in a more rational and mature manner, I guess we'll call it a day

 

[laugh]

Where did I misquote you?

Are you putting words in my mouth?

 

[Mel22]

LAUGH pls

I have spoon fed you enough for one day.

 

[laugh]

Can I have some tit please mum?

 

[aussie101]

Before I write this I will say I do support laws for harm minimisation, although this should not be bound simply by fines, suspensions, jail time... But should instead include counselling, psychologists, psychiatrists (if required), rehabilitation, repeat (or even first time) offender education on the effects of drug and alcohol on driving - although i note that the drug laws would never allow proper assessment of this because "drugs are baaad mmmmmmkay?" (i have lost my license four times and have never had to do a single course on offending drug/drunk driving laws, it is lucky I am realising my behaviour is unacceptable because very soon i will be getting my ban quashed on appeal and getting my license back)....

We had large discussion about "Australia's laws" today in a lecture. The lecturer pointed out that the system is an absolute mess due to the way it was formed.

There is high court, supreme court, family court, special federal courts (including conciliation and arbitration commission), intermediate courts (including district courts, county courts, courts of request, general sessions and district criminal courts), magistrates courts (eg local), tribunals.

Then theres the facts that decisions made in one state do not have to follow in another state (although have some persuasion), the high court is not bound by previous decisions (nor is an appeal in a district court), theres jurisdictions...

Then theres constitution laws, statute laws, common laws, customary laws, equity and international laws...

There are precedents that can be used to defeat laws/charges...

Pretty much most lawyers do not understand the laws PROPERLY. One needs to comb through the "police fact sheet" with several law books handy and find where the pigs have made mistakes. Police are humans, we all make mistakes. If this fails, magistrates/judges make mistakes - this is usually the basis of an appeal although an appeal can relate to any of the aforementioned aspects of law.

Like I said the system is elastic.

 

[Oldred3s]

Simple. Don't drive pissed or high.
If its possible to fool a reagent test to show a particular substance when it's not present I'm pretty sure soon enough someone will invent something that will mask a substance in your system. But still, don't drive high or drunk