Netherlands to Close Prisons: Not Enough Criminals

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bit_pattern

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Netherlands to Close Prisons: Not Enough Criminals

by Bruce Mirken

For years prohibitionists, including our own Drug Enforcement Administration, have claimed — falsely — that the tolerant marijuana policies of the Netherlands have made that nation a nest of crime and drug abuse. They may have trouble wrapping their little brains around this:

The Dutch government is getting ready to close eight prisons because they don’t have enough criminals to fill them. Officials attribute the shortage of prisoners to a declining crime rate.

Just for fun, let’s compare the Netherlands to California. With a population of 16.6 million, the Dutch prison population is about 12,000. With its population of 36.7 million, California should have a bit more than double the Dutch prison population. California’s actual prison population is 171,000.

So, whose drug policies are keeping the streets safer?
 
Well its a bit silly to use this as proof of non-drug crime dropping, of course you'll have less criminals if you aren't putting people away for marijuana offenses.

If a law is passed making it illegal to breathe could you then claim 100% of the hypothetical population subject to said law are criminals? Just to give an idea how the definition of criminal can be toyed with.
 
You can still go to jail for other drug crimes, ie. dealing heroin. And if people are selling less heroin (and the Dutch experience suggests heroin use has dropped due to liberalised drug laws) is indicative that it is a successful policy.
 
Want some of ours?

Just think, if this becomes a trend, prisoners could become the US's top export.
 
spread the goddam word people
yell if off the rooftops
confront random strangers
 
OP makes me want to cry in simultaneous joy and frustration.


garuda said:
Well its a bit silly to use this as proof of non-drug crime dropping, of course you'll have less criminals if you aren't putting people away for marijuana offenses.

If a law is passed making it illegal to breathe could you then claim 100% of the hypothetical population subject to said law are criminals? Just to give an idea how the definition of criminal can be toyed with.
Click to expand...

The point is that massive amounts of marijuana use creates less other crimes than the amount of marijuana use itself.

In other words, some politicians and anti-drug advocates would have you believe that in the Netherlands, the leading causes of death are from drug-related murders (exaggeration) when in reality, they have less drug-related murders than California, percentage wise (not fact, but possibly not exaggeration.)
 
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I think the netherlands also has less crime in general then the US and canada. The people there seem to be less violent and how often are there shootings or gang related violence over there? Id say it's pretty close to nothing.

Still legalizing weed would sure as hell cut down on the prison population in canada that is for damn sure. Also if people here charged with possesion of any drug where not sent to prison then that would majorly cut down on the number of inmates.

Neither the US or canada could ever really get the crime rates down to where the netherlands are in my opinion.
 
paranoid android said:
I think the netherlands also has less crime in general then the US and canada. The people there seem to be less violent and how often are there shootings or gang related violence over there? Id say it's pretty close to nothing.

Still legalizing weed would sure as hell cut down on the prison population in canada that is for damn sure. Also if people here charged with possesion of any drug where not sent to prison then that would majorly cut down on the number of inmates.

Neither the US or canada could ever really get the crime rates down to where the netherlands are in my opinion.
Click to expand...

That is possibly true, at least in the global society we live in.

The Netherlands is much more homogenous and small than either the USA or Canada. They're also much more pacifist and have a much more established heritage and etc. than either of our lovely western hemisphere nations.

I'd say the homogeneity is one of the biggest parts of what android said though.
 
Maybe the Netherlands has room for our criminal Congress? Might as well clean out our judiciary and executive branches too.
 
I think we should model some islands in the shape of a huge crown just a bit north of holland.

Either way, thats another point, but I've stopped counting.
 
Interesting discussion. I think both PA and Moonmixer have a bit of a 'starry' view of NL. There are gangs, there are shootings. NL has a great deal of organized crime (Russian, Albanian for drugs and whores) and local thugs of various colors. Its not that safe, especially in those circles. Gun violence is WAY less than the US since guns are banned. But if someone needs to be 'offed' they seem to find a gun to do the job.

I am not sure where you get that NL was ever pacifist, this is just not true. The Dutch are more accepting than tolerant and they are accepting when it shows a possibility of good for the country. The accept legal weed as a way to reduce crime but most Dutch do not smoke weed and are often quite judgmental about it.

I think the Dutch are doing it mostly right about drugs. Legal weed. Hard drugs=for the user its very hard to go to jail for personal use amounts. Treatment, while not free, is available way more than in the USA. Even hard drugs dealers get way less prison time than the US. I think the push for a kilo of c here is 3 years only.

But for real, its a place with immigration, poverty, crime, etc not paradise. But as I said, they are doing most things right. peace
 
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