Need support with opiate wds, can't think of anywhere else to turn to

[Bludda]

I used to be a regular poster on these forums, years ago, however I stopped coming online the first time I tried quitting Poppy Seed Tea. I made it about 3 weeks, and then got back into it. 2 years later, I'm back here again and I'm looking for a bit of advice/support because I don't know where else to turn to.

Neither my wife nor my family are aware of what I am putting myself through, they all believe I stopped using the tea a couple of years ago. I have been seeing a psychiatrist for a few months, but despite my best intentions and my promise to him that I would never lie to him, I have begun lying to him about my usage.

I decide to take this entire week off work to go cold turkey. I've have 2 cold turkey attempts before this in the last couple of months. The first time, I decided to reward myself with some PST for making it to 6 days without use. The second attempt was right over Christmas, and I was too sick to celebrate Christmas and NYE with my family. Needless to say, I began using again after 6 or so days.

Despite these brief breaks, I have been using nearly 3kg of poppy seeds a day for the entire year (though there have been a few occasions where I tried tapering and I used less than this). God knows what I have done to my body.

Of course, I've already fucked this attempt by spending my first two days off work using PST as a "last time for old time's sake". It' now Friday and this is my third day without using. PST wd's take a long time to kick in for me - usually two days. I haven't started shitting myself yet, however I've been sweating like pig and have had a little bit of sniffles, lethargy etc for about 24 hours. Basically, wds are just beginning. I've kept myself sketchy by having 30mg of oxazepam at night and pot during the day.

Here's where I need some advice. It occurred to me that I could try tapering at this point. Sober brain is pretty sure that this is just a cunning ruse by FuckUpBrain to have one more dose of tea. FuckUpBrain is politely telling me that I only have two more days off before I go back to work, and I will still be sick then. FuckUpBrain is saying that I've already screwed this attempt by using on my first two days off and it would be better for me to have 1kg of seeds now, wait another 3 days (when wds start) and then dose again with a lower amount. However, Sober brain is also aware, that at some deep level I don't want to quit, no matter what the consequences would be for me and my beautiful wife, my career, my family etc.

I know I'm trying to rationalise another high, but I'm not in a coherent enough frame of mind to evaluate my position properly. One of my main problems is that since I became a regular user of PST a few years ago, I have never stopped using it for long enough to actually get all the way through wds - though I do know that things begin to get easier by day 6 (though I would still have insomnia, restless legs, diarreah at that point).

I know some of you will say "Go on, tiger! you've made it this far, don't give up now!" - but you need to be aware that PST is a very long-acting brew. It's not like wd'ing off a short-acting opiate. If I knew I'd come good by the start of next week, I would not be in this quandry.


What say you guys? Switch to a taper (which hasn't worked in the past)? Or push through and wd while at work (which I am afraid will compell me to have another dose just to make it through work).

I have only 3 x 30mg oxazepam tablets and a bit of weed to get me through this, however I do this.

Anyone who has been addicted to PST, or any other long acting opiate, any advice or thought would be appreciated.



Peace out



Edit: Wow, re-reading this< I realise how hard I'm pushing for support to dose again today. Forgetting that, any advice whatsoever about to how to handle this whole thing from now on would be great. Seems I can't trust my brain anymore.

 

[Bludda]

Anyone, please? I'm going crazy just thinking about this. I've nearly got into the car twice, just to get some seeds for a "Thirds Taper" (Reduce by 30% every four days).

FUCK, I AM SO WEAK! WHAT HAPPENED TO ME?


Edit: Just some more background, because I'm checking this thread every 5 mins waiting for a reply:

I'm a secret addict: Nobody knows abuot my predictament, my wife and family think I'm clean and are really proud of me. The last time I gave up, my wife gave me an ultimatum - if I use again, she is gone. I know how much of a total fuckwad I am for continuing to use, but I am a fuckup, and I am really good a rationalising stupid behaviour.

My psych suggested I go into a centre to clean up, but I can't do that or everyone will know.

I have lied and manipulated so much, I even feel uncomfortable telling my two closest friends who helped me last time, because I feel like I've let them and myself down.

I feel like I'm making progress, these last few months I've either tapered a bit or gone cold turkey for a few days before using again, and I wouldn't have been able to do that previously (sorrry about typos, my hands are pretty shakey atm).

This is why I'm turning to this community. Bluelight was great years ago (all my original posts and threads seem to have disappeared), and I'm hoping there's people out there who have been in this exact situation.

I put down my WD sickness over xmas and nye to a stomach bug, I'm now worried that because I have fucked up this cold tukey attempt by wasting two days, I will be sick over the weekend and my wife will wonder what's up. She's not stupid, she suspected something over xmas was suss.

Do I scrap this cold turkey attempt and try to taper (which in all honesty, is something I would love to do now, just to have one more dose) - and keep up pretenses? Or should I try and stick this out - and possibly have the last two year's worth of lies come crashing down around me and lose my wife?


Sorry to keep writing on my own thread, I'm just going crazy here.

 

[herbavore]

hey, I'm here and I'm reading. Let me finish reading and I will post. Just wanted you to know someone is here. Hang in there, buddy. you aren't alone.

 

[herbavore]

As much as you probably don't want to hear this, I think that you need to tell your friends, your psychiatrist and above all else your wife, the truth. It does not make much difference if you quit cold turkey or taper if you keep up the lies and deception. If you keep lying, and your wife keeps trying to believe you or ignore what she knows or whatever she is doing on her side of this soul-killing equation, you are going to forever have this in the back of your mind as an option to start up again. You are going to convince yourself that you can pull it off again.

When you ask what happened to you, I think the answer is simply addiction. Addiction makes people crazy, makes people lie to the people they love and lie to themselves. Then the horrible cycle of shame>use>more shame>more use starts to dig deeper and deeper into your life. You obviously love your wife and value your friends. They deserve your honesty. If things fall apart in the initial shock of confession, it may not be forever, but if things slowly erode because of the dishonesty the outcome will more than likely be much worse.

I'm married. If my husband came to me and said, "I am ashamed and humiliated and terrified but I want to change" , I would support him to the ends of the earth. Maybe I would say that I needed my own space while he proved he was serious, but I would admire him for his vulnerability and his honesty--even though he was admitting his dishonesty. But if my husband never quite told me the truth, and in some part of my mind I knew that, I would eventually give up on him. There would be absolutely nothing to place my trust in.

Fear of the consequences I have learned from many people here in TDS is usually not enough of a longterm motivator. Filling life with activities and people and experiences that fulfill you and give you pleasure and stimulation is going to help you stay away from the tea more than fear. When we fear, we get into that mindset that just screams, "Make it stop!" And what can make it stop as well as a drug? that's the trap. The way around the trap is to quit fearing fear. Be fearlessly honest. If it means being alone, be fearlessly alone. If it means letting it all crash because it was built on lies, then fearlessly start constructing something built on transparency. People want to be loved for their true selves. You want that. Your wife and family want that. I know it seems so scary to contemplate losing what you love. I really think that possibility is strongest if you continue to try to hide this and get off the tea on your own. Talk to your psychiatrist first if that would feel safer.

I really admire you for what you are trying to do. I can tell by your post how hard this is for you. Don't be ashamed. It is addiction. It is not a character flaw or weakness or anything else to be ashamed of. Breathe and try to be the best friend that you so desperately need right now to yourself. Lots of people here will support you and lots have gone through this or are going through it right now.

 

[Sepher]

Bludda, I'm at work at the minute so can only manage quick and dirty posts and yours deserves more than that. Will be around later. Just wanted you to know someone had heard you. Feel free to PM if you like. Catch you later. Stay strong in the meantime.

 

[cook]

I would suggest using either codeine, tramadol or loperamide to ease it out, CTing from opiate alkaloids after such a long time might just be too much, especially if the DOC is readily available like the seeds are and tapering doesn't work.

I always dealt my pods WD's with tramadol, it didn't take them away but made it a lot easier. Of course I got slightly addicted to tramadol but withdrawing from it was nothing like pods, like walk in the park. You have tried CT'ing before, you know that it just isn't for everyone and not the best way to go unless you absolutely desire it.

 

[Sepher]

Bludda, I'm not familiar with PST at all, my experience was with heroin so I've no idea about timescale for withdrawal, severity, or what. 3kg a day though, that sounds like it must be a hell of a lot? Would OTC codeine hold you if you had to cos you couldn't get hold of seeds? I'm wondering if you could switch from something that sounds relatively long acting to a much shorter acting opiate like codeine and then rapid taper off of that to make life a little easier. Like I say, I don't know enough about PST but pretty low dose codeine phosphate was very effective for me coming off habits in excess of a gram of H a day IV, and I still did the kick in the usual 4-5 days, quite comfortably too, it didn't string it out a bit. Loperamide as Cook suggests could also be very useful for you. I can't advise any which way at the minute as to whether you hang on with a CT detox that might not be over in time for work next week so guess need you to give us a better idea of where you are with things so we can look at options with you.

I agree with Herbavore that you need some support here. Your psychiatrist certainly needs to be aware of the situation and onboard here, you're making it impossible for them to help you if you're not being honest, and I think they would help you. You need that. Honesty with your wife is probably the way forward too. She's gonna be pissed off mightily I'm sure but if the relationship is solid she's gonna want to support you and help you through this, surely? That's what we do for our loved ones, no matter how angry they make us, we want them to be well. Take what you can get. If you really can't do that the friends who've helped you before would probably help again. Don't let shame or the fear of admitting you're a failure get in the way of seeking their help, that's irrational thinking, you could just as easily feel pride in being strong enough to admit your failings to them, it's all about how you frame things in your own mind, yeah?

With you absolutely on the sober brain / fuck up thing. Know it inside out mate, I refer to rational mind and addict mind myself. You do at least seem to recgnise you're own thought processes for what they are. That's something to work with, you're aware of the traps. Keep talking to us, hopefully start talking to other people, between us we can work this out man. It's doable, come what may.

Good luck!

 

[LalinCantHump]

As a previous poster has said, its not a bad idea to get yourself some codeine if you are withdrawing from similar opiates. When you are used to taking something on a daily basis its pretty hard to rob your body of those chemicals outright. I take around 60-80mg of oxy a day and during times when i couldn't get it for a couple days i always stocked up on codeine. Even if you just take them as advised (as opposed to extracting the paracetamol and taking lots and lots, as i was doing), just that little bit of opiate can really help to take the edge of withdrawal.

Also agree about the tramadol. When I was also on 400mg of that daily, missing my oxy didn't hurt as much.


It fucking sucks to confront the idea of not having your daily fix, and for me that part is just as hard as the physical symptoms of not having it.

But if you did it in the past, you can do it again! Don't worry about what people think, if they love and care for you Im sure they will understand. Going it solo pretty damn hard.

 

[LalinCantHump]

Whoever said tramadol withdrawal was easy, actually it can be quite bad and totally comparable to a certain level of true opiate withdrawal. Having come off of 400mg of tramadol after 5 years, with only a quick taper, i can assure you that tramadol withdrawal CAN be horrible. For me, almost as uncomfortable as coming off 60mg of Oxycodone. Obviously coming off IV heroin or hundreds of mg of oxy will be worse than any tramadol withdrawal, but don't underestimate its potential dependency issues. After a few weeks your really not that dependant. It can take a while sometimes, at least for me it took a long time before i started feeling withdrawals after missing doses.

 

[cook]

Yeah well I just prefer tramadol because of it's superb mood lifting qualities which make any withdrawal a lot more bearable, and of course the opioid activity too but I think the mood lift is mostly due to serotonin release.

I have no experience withdrawing tramadol after very long term use, sure it can be a bitch but after a month or two with reasonable dose it's no big deal at least for me.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Bludda I've been in your shoes. I was a ppt addict, which I hid from everyone. The only thing that helped me was when my brother outed me to my family. Yes, it was a rough, and took a loong time to get clean but it worked.

If you don't want to come clean, try switching to kratom. I actually did this and lasted a month on no pods, just kratom. Then I got on suboxone.

I started out on poppy seed tea, and know what wd's are like, so good luck man!

 

[purple corduroys]

Since it's been so many years and you've been taking such high quantities, it seems like Suboxone might be a good idea.

I nursed an opiate addiction for about 3 years, with a cocaine addiction kicking in halfway through. I had been through some trauma and had major depression, PTSD... I was all sorts of fucked up, basically. I went through insane withdrawls for weeks at a time... the worst was probably coming off a 24 mg-per-day Dilaudid habit... the only way I got through it was by using copious amounts of nitrous. My hands turned black from the little whipped cream canisters. I was basically glued to the couch for about 3 weeks and would beg my partner to bring me home cases of nitrous. In the 4th week I caved and began taking 5 mg methadone tablets so that I could function again. It was a roller coaster ride, swinging constantly between maintaining, getting high as fuck, and going through withdrawls. I finally got to a point where I realized I had to stop. I glimpsed the road ahead of me and knew that I could not allow my disease to develop any further. I wanted to die, sure. I thought about it a long, long time. Ultimately I knew that I could never bring myself to perpetrate that kind of trauma on my family, and therefore however shitty life might be, I had to find a way to persevere. Using opiates was leading me down a path towards untimely, self-initiated death, and I just couldn't do that to my family, so I had to find a way to live without drugs.

There were several factors that were key to my recovery... it's been about 6 years now, thankfully without any real relapse (knock on wood)... and I can honestly tell you that Suboxone changed my life. It enabled my brain chemistry to stabilize over a long period of time. It helped me battle the cravings - by putting me in a place where I was at least capable of doing battle. I took Suboxone for 4 years, and spent the last year trying to get off of it. My personal experience is that it's a very well-designed drug in the sense of having all the negatives of opiates with none of the pleasures. I mean NONE. The only "pleasure" you get from it is relief from withdrawls - a secondary, rather than a primary pleasure. Suboxone enabled me to examine all of my addictive behavior (which became focused around it), without itself being harmful. I also sought treatment for depression and PTSD and was immensely helped by a combination of antidepressants. Yeah, it took a lot of years of grueling hard work, but eventually I was able to dig myself out of the hole... and the pharms gave me a leg to stand on, so to speak... a platform off of which to build.

Trying to detox alone after so many years of heavy use is really, really hard. Do yourself the favor of getting a little pharmacological support, even if you aren't yet ready to get the social support. Find a Suboxone doctor and get on a program and be prepared to take it for a long time. I really think that that's how it's intended to work. For a long time, you make your choice in the morning each day when you take your dose of Suboxone, and that way every time you get a craving you don't have to make that choice over again. You've made your choice for that day already and taken Suboxone, so even if you broke down and brewed dozens of kgs of poppy tea, it wouldn't really work...

Think about it, man. Best of luck to you. Don't be discouraged by your relapse, it happens to nearly everyone. You can do it.

 

[phactor]

Think you just need to get honest. I got honest with my family yesterday and told them that I would be getting clean again and likely attending outpatient services. Basically said I need to get help and had to go to the ER to get checked out as I have seized once before and got a small script of ativan to hold me until I could get in to see my doc. I am not comfortable, but at least I am not hungover.

My parents hugged me, my sisters hugged me and said they were proud of me. I feel so much better. They were not angry, just a bit disappointed and relieved.

And guess what... they all knew that something was up anyways.

Anyways, I would suggest Suboxone. It really helped me to quit my opiate habit. I was able to taper it off successfully and never got back on. My true DOC is alcohol and always will be alcohol though.

 

[clemsmom]

Hi...I'm new here, and just learning (my area of research being heroin addiction..not by choice, but by need to be able to help my addicted-but 4 days clean! son)....so I don't have alot of advice to offer...EXCEPT....Honesty is (usually) the best idea...You mention going IN for detox, but hesitate because you are worried that people will know...F' 'em!...This is NOT about people, this is about YOU...YOUR LIFE...and reclaiming it...getting your freedom back...freedom to function without your addiction...Think about it...
What I really posted to say was, keeping a good thought for you..and sending strength that whichever path you chose, you stay strong and make it thru this time...(we can't fix last time...or yesterday...or even 5 minutes ago...we can ONLY GO FORWARD and make a better tomorrow!)