Need som Info/help about going from Subutex to Methadone.

[ThroesOfRejection]

Hi. I am a new user here. Ive been here alot of times, but finally i registered!

I am a Herion addict and ive been on Subutex/buprenorphine since august 2012. 20 mg`s every day. Never had a relapse on opiates while substitution program. Im living in a country north in Europe, and its very hard to get in a Substitution program here. Its far away from what they do in America. But anyway, my issue is this:

Since the early months in 2013, ive been in very bad shape. I have troubling to eat food more than 1 time a day (usually i eat before i go to bed, and thats it). Almost every morning, i feel dopesick and used to puke alot immidiately after im waking up. Subutex makes UP, and this result in NO sleeping at all. Im never tired. So i use 20 mg`s of Zolpidem every night for sleeping (prescription). In the summer 2013, i asked my counselours if there was a possibillity to get on Methadone instead. They said very clearly that i was way to young (i am 26 now), and that i had a future in front of me. Well, i have felt like shit since back then. over a year feeling uncomfortable, but ive tried my best to be as good as i can. I am extremely exhausted now. All my willpower and energy is gone, and i am not doing very good at the university since im feeling like shit everyday.

But early in March 2014, i was at a meeting with my counselours again. Ive told them that im still like shit. What happends next was very surprising. They want me on Methadone now! Me and them think that this is a very good idea for me. 12 april is the date they want me to do the crossover from Subutex to Methadone. So i am nearly there.

But is there anyone here who have done this change before? from Subu(tex,one), to Methadone? Ive heard its easy to do the change in that way. is that true?
And for those who has used Buprenorphine before methadone, do u think the Methadone works better?

And what do u think about my change?

Preciate any response! And forgive me if my spelling isnt good, but English is a second language to me.

Thanks=)

¤ThroesOfRejection¤

 

[ExInMil]

Personally, do not switch to methadone.... I understand you are busy and have responsibilities but all you are doing is delaying the inevitable... that being said, you should have no problem going from Subs to Methadone, the other way around is shitty.... but like I said, methadone is a long acting opiate (not unlike Bup) and the withdraws are hellish from it compared to Subs.... in my humble opinion....

curious... what is your first language?

 

[Oxy_Ghost]

I wonder why they said you were too young at first. I mean cuz my fiancé was put on methadone when she was 20 but she was at detox. Maybe it was cuz you still have your whole life ahead of you and they didn't wanna put you through more hell with meds that suck to come off of but that doesn't explain why they want you on it now. Well I hope it works out for you!

 

[ThroesOfRejection]

Norwegian is my first language. About that stuff that they thougth i was to young, is that overe here you had to pass this criteries to even get on substituion meds:
1. be over 30
2. had over 10 yrs of IV use
3. had 3 or 5 times at rehab without meds that failed.

The last yrs, these criteries was changed to:
1.25 yrs
2.5 yrs with IV use
3. a couple times at rehab without meds that failed.

So in this country, its only 3-4000 in this system. Some times they take in younger people too, there are some exceptions. And another important thing, is that over here, people in this programme is told, and being prepared to this medication the rest of the lifetime. Its fully up to myself to quit. To be really honest, i have no intention to quit the meds in near future, but offcourse thing can change. The Sub`s have helpt me alot the first 9 mnds-1 year, but i crave so extremely everyday, that is resulting of me being exhausted of willpower and motivation. My biggest fear is to relapse. I know myself to good, i am trying to make good reasons for myself everday to not use H. All the work i have done the past years would be almost useless, and i have to begin on scratch again.

A positive test on cannabiods doesnt count as a "positive test" over here. Its OK to smoke while in the program. So the last months, my smoking behavior has increased in a large amount, just to feel just a tad more comfortable. Im not satisfied that i started to smoke again, cause my intention was to only stay on the Sub`s. Smoking also make my anxiety and PTSD calmer. But it doesnt help me on my almost like insomnia state. So i have to relay on my sleeping pills. Im know very good that i maybe trade one addiction with another if i change to Methadone. But i am prepared to be on it for a lifetime. That makes me not so concerned about withdrawals from Methadone.

And with that beeing said, i have never been at detox to ease the WD`s. Offcourse i have OD many times, but i always woked up where i OD`d. When going to withdrawal, i have been just laying the sofa, and let the hell be unleashed. Before starting on Sub`s, i had been in withdrawal from a heavy Benzo prescription that i had since i was 18 and used everyday, and many years on H in a row. I was very sick for 4 weeks. Definately the worst pain i had. But i belive that if someone want to quit, going cold turkey can be very helpful for some people, cause its hard to forget how fucking bad it was. So i started on Sub`s on the 5th week. My friend had a 3 week coma from the same benzo habit. He was very happy for that offcourse.

Honestly, i think i will consider to make the switch to Methadone. I really think that it will make my cravings, social life, anxiety, ptsd and eduation will be better on Methadone. Sub`s just feels like they miss something to me. AFAIK, heavy H user is supposed to have better succes on Methadone than Sub`s. Lets say i give it shot, and i find out that Methadone arent the thing for me, how long would it take in average to feel WD`s from it?

¤ThroesOfRejection¤

 

[ExInMil]

You'll start to withdraw from methadone 24-38 hours after yer last dose....
They call em liquid hand cuffs for a reason.... I dont know how they administer it over where you are at, but the system over here makes the user come in everyday except on Sunday untill a reputable pattern has been established. Then they let you have take homes twice a week, three times a week and so on.

I dont know how old you are, sounds like yer younger like me, im 26. Anyway, think about. A fucking life time.....

 

[ThroesOfRejection]

I am 26 too. born in 87`. Over here, we just go to the pharmacy and pick it up. I pick it up twice a week, and they say that i will my takehome`s if i switch. Have never heard about the "liquid handcuffs" thing, except when i heard they called it on the "methadonia" documentary on YouTube.

 

[ExInMil]

Well man.....
The convenience of the distribution over there makes the whole thing a lot more tempting and I must admit I have thought about just giving in and accepting defeat. Alas, resolve and I quit. That documentary is a good look into life long methadone addiction. I cant say anything that video hasn't already said.

Remember that old man crying while nodding out? Do you really want that to be your future?

There is always a way to convince yourself that you will stay high till you get your responsibilities done and then quit, but that never happens.

Up to you man.....

 

[ThroesOfRejection]

I just wanted to follow up this thread incase there are other people who are curious about the switch from Buprenorfin(Subutex) to Methadone.

Today, i got a very good phone call. It was the doctor at my clinic who said i could come on Friday (28th march)!! I was happy as a kid, since i wasnt supposed to make the change until 11th april. And i have been waiting almost 10-12 months for this to happen.

So i am 100% sure that i will go for the Methadone now.. I will give it a chance, and hope its the right medication for me.

I havn`t had a relapse so far. Ive been clean from opiates and benzo`s to. (except the Zolpidem`s that i have a script on for sleep aid,but used them properly).
So i am very optimistic at this point. I just hope this work for me. The doctors want me to use Methadone cause of the sedative effect that it has.

Do people get sleepy and tired on Methadone?
cause that is what i need. I almost dont sleep at all, and i am getting very hyperactive and awake on the Subutex. And that is tearing me apart. Hope i finally get some relief.=)

Thanks to all the nice people here at bluelight!=)

 

[neversickanymore]

You may get a little sleepy on methadone until you adjust to the dose. I would definitely take a multivitamin and the max daily dose of vitamin D. I would also consider getting your testosterone levels checked at regular intervals. Do not mix benzos, esp xanax with the methadone as this is really dangerous and can lead to big problems. Please keep us informed as to how the transition goes.

 

[ThroesOfRejection]

neversickanymore, Thank you=) Yeah, i take my precautions. I quitted my big benzo habit ca 3 years ago. I had them on prescription though, but it was just still way to much.
Also thanks for the Vitamin and the testo tips.=)

AFAIK, i will be on 20 mg`s on Subutex tomorrow and down to 8mg on Friday when i get there. On Saturday, i will already be at 30 mg`s, and they are increasing 10 mg`s each day the next 10 days. The other scenario is that im on 30 mg`s of Methadone on Sunday.

So the change will be a fast transition.

Its very common in this country that most of the Methadone patients is around 80-130 mg of methadone.

Is it any difference about the different Methadone types? When they called me today, they said that the Martindale Methadone is been drawed back this week, and will not be available, cause there has been 3 overdoses in a very short time. Its because Martindale has Pivotomin in the mix, and the overdoses was because of Pivotomin. So in Norway, Martindale is NOT availble anymore until they got the Pivotomin away from the mixture.

So the brand i will get, is straigth from a Norwegian ether fabricant. its 5mg/ml.

Offcourse i have NO intention to misuse my Methadone prescription. I havent touched a needle at all in a couple years, and i have broken the chain with my "old friends" years ago. Hell, i dont even know how to misuse Methadone! Ive heard that some people collect the "take-home" doses, and drinks double up, but it sounds a little stupid to me though,beacause what about the next day?

In all honesty, i just hope that Methadone gives me a little more relief than Subutex. But i am happy that Subutex is existing, cause i would be probably be dead if it wasnt for my motivation and Subutex.

So the brand i will get, is straigth from a Norwegian ether fabricant. its 5mg/ml.

 

[ThroesOfRejection]

New Update: Yesterday, i only took 10 mg of Subutex. Felt i little sick, but this could also be psychic. And this morning, i started on 45 mg Methadone, and i feel good=) Not high, but very pleased and comfortable. Just a few hours after taking it, i got a relief from herioncravings! Its not optimally yet, but i am on a good way. Its just only day 1, but i think i did the right choice about switching to Methadone.

My appetite for food is also better. Im so hungry! I also took my last sleeping pill yesterday,but i think i can sleep good tonigth=)

So the conclusion after day 1 is : so far, so good.
And offcourse its very very early to come to a final conclusion already, so i will update everyday until im fully stabilized.

Thanks!

 

[The80killer]

You'll start to withdraw from methadone 24-38 hours after yer last dose....
They call em liquid hand cuffs for a reason.... I dont know how they administer it over where you are at, but the system over here makes the user come in everyday except on Sunday untill a reputable pattern has been established. Then they let you have take homes twice a week, three times a week and so on.

I dont know how old you are, sounds like yer younger like me, im 26. Anyway, think about. A fucking life time.....

I've know people who successfully taped off and jumped off methadone just like people do with subutex or suboxone. Back when I used to use I used to hang out with these 2 brothers, one of them quit using suboxone and the other one used methadone since he couldn't afford suboxone. Both of them have been complete clean off any opiates since 2011, they both started to quit in 2009. It does suck having to go to the clinic every morning, but after 2 months he would just pick up an entire weeks dose at 1 time.

 

[ThroesOfRejection]

Day 2:

I didnt sleep anything at all this night. But my mood is good. Today, i took 40 mg+15mg Methadone. I actually felt the dose a little. not high, but i nice mood lift. To explain "mood-lift" a little further: Its not a high, but my mood its better. F.ex ,I clean my face with gel wash to care care of my skin. I WANT to take care for my health, and wants to look good and attractive. To be honest,while on Subutex/Buprenorphine, i didnt bother to take care of my self at all. I just didnt have the energy or the will. Sometimes, i didnt even bother to brush my teeth, or take a shower. I dont know why i didnt care, but it seems like Buprenorphine made me VERY passive and extremely ignorant of taking care of myself. I just didnt get any relief at all on Subutex. Its a Partial agonist, and i think that is the reason i didnt get any relief at all. So far, it seems like i respond much better on Full agonist. Ive heard that in most cases, people with a small opiod habit or description pills habit like perocet, oxy`s,codein should benefit from Sub`s/Buprenorphine. And people with a bigger habit like Herion IV, long time opiodaddicts shpuld benefit more from Methadone. This makes very much sense to me.

What do u guys think?

I was so passive on Sub`s. A simple explanation: it felt i was on "Standby-modus" all the time. I could just sit in a chair and look out of the window for hours. I just didnt care about anything at all. So i hope Methadone gives me the positive energy the way that Subutex didnt.

A question for u guys who have been on Methadone for maintance: Do u still got some "energyboost" or feeling well after taking the dose? Not talking about getting a high, but just feeling good?

Thanks to all the forum members who have written in this thread. You guys are very kind people, and it warms my heart!. I dont have any friends at all anymore. I havent spoked to my friends in 3 years. Its very hard for me to admit it, but i am very lonely. So it helps me alot to write here, and getting my thoughts out. Somekind of a day for day diary.

I will be very happy for any tips and tricks while in Methadone Maintance. Not "how to abuse my dose" tips, but tips on how to feel well, and taking care of my body while on Methadone. I asked the nurse`s here to get some Omega-3, B and D vitamins.

Tomorrow, i will take a bloodsample to check my liver, different levels in blood etc.

To neversickanymore, or to others: WHy should i check my testoserone level? Does methadone make the testo level low?.

Ive heard about something called Vitadone(?). I dont know if they have that in Norway, but have anyone tried it? i think its just like other multivitamins, but ive heard it can help sideeffects from Methadone. I still havent got any sideeffects, but its just day 2. But on Sub`s. i had plenty of sideeffetcs.

 

[The Doc.]

Well its not how big a habit you have I mean I used to sell heroin and at one point when I would have a kilo I was banging a half gram of China white (straight from the source my Asian friend smuggled it over the mountains so it was pretty much uncut) 4-6 times a day along with a couple points of coke mixed in the shots(I love Speedball's). I remember watching the sun rise every morning slumped over on my couch and doing another speedball to get going and do it all over again. I mean it was horrible how much I was doing but I didn't care at all each day my veins were just looking worse and worse they are still purplish black to this day after not using a needle for over a year. I eventually started to realize I'm going no where fast so I got on suboxone and I needed 12 mgs a day sublingual to get me by (4mgs 3 times a day)
So to say sub's arnt for hardcore addicts is bullshit because I know many other who worked fine on sub even my Asian friend who is 40 years old and shoots a whole Gram 6 times a day got by fine with 24 mgs of suboxone when we were in detox together.fuck sub's are a godsend dude before that when I went into detox i would just lay on the floor the whole time unable to eat or do anything really.
Suboxone is a very powerful drug way more so than methadone 2 mgs of bupe is equal to about 60 mgs of oxy if I'm not mistaken it just doesn't give you the high like the Meth does so its all about what works best for the person. If the person wants to stay on matinence forever and cannot give up feeling a buzz all day long then methadone is for them. If the person really wants to see what sober life is like eventually and is over with being doped up all the time then suboxone is for you. Every body's different some drugs work better or don't have as many side effects for some people and other people need something else.

I like sub's they don't make you so dam tired and they are easier to taper off also I find they give a better buzz then Meth the trick with sub's is to get your tolerance under 2 mgs then you start to feel that glow every time you take it if you go over that then you won't be getting high until you bring your tolerance back down. Now all I need of sub is 0.25 mgs 3-4 times a day and it gets me feeling so much better then when I was on 12 mgs actually gives a high now. With sub's less is more in terms of getting high.

It sounds like you were on waay to much bupe if you classify 10 mgs as a small dose cause that's a huge dose. All higher doses of bupe do is give you side effects and makes the drug act more like an antagonist instead of an full opiate antagonist this is why large doses are encouraged so there's no way a person can get high by taking a large dose every morning. Its stupid when I hear about ridiculous doses like 32 mgs I mean that's way too much overkill for any addict they complain it doesn't work well and they have side effects when if they took 2 mgs they would have all their symptoms taken care of with no side effects. Just something to keep in mind.