I am currently prescribed 4.5 lortab 10/500 daily and 2mg dilaudids just for breakthrough pain when needed. My question is how often- per week? per month?- would it be safe to take the dilaudids and not raise my tolerance too much and not become physically dependant on them along with the lortabs? I realize they are both opiodes. How long after I take the dilaudid will it be out of my system enough to be able to take more? When I take take Valium I usually wait at least 7 to 10 days before taking them again. Does this make any sense to anyone?
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
Need advice on Dilaudid dosage.
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'medicine cabinet'
Bluelighter
if they are rx'd, take them how your dr tells you to take them. dilaudid has a poor oral bioavailability, meaning once it passes through your stomach and liver and everything, not much of the actual drug end up getting to your opiate receptors. the risk of becoming dependent on opiates has many factors, so its hard to give an exact answer, but its safe to say that if you are taking the lortab and dilaudid together every day, you will be physically addicted at some point. could be 2 weeks, could be 2 months. some peoples brains are "hardwired" more to accept opiates, just like some people are predisposed to addiction.
as for the pharmacology of the dilaudid, its short acting with a low oral bioavailability, it should be out of your system within a matter of days, its not going to build up a high level in your body. As for the valium, is that rx too or for recreation? mixing all 3 of those drugs are cns depressants and could lead to respiratory depression which could lead to you not breathing if taken in high enough doses.
waiting 7 to ten days with the valium is a good way to not get addicted, but if you take a high dose of it, the half life is massive compared to other benzos so it will take a long ass time to be fully excreted from your body. hope that helped.
as for the pharmacology of the dilaudid, its short acting with a low oral bioavailability, it should be out of your system within a matter of days, its not going to build up a high level in your body. As for the valium, is that rx too or for recreation? mixing all 3 of those drugs are cns depressants and could lead to respiratory depression which could lead to you not breathing if taken in high enough doses.
waiting 7 to ten days with the valium is a good way to not get addicted, but if you take a high dose of it, the half life is massive compared to other benzos so it will take a long ass time to be fully excreted from your body. hope that helped.
Yes the valium and anything else i take is RX'd. I know all about the long acting meds, i just recently tapered off a 4 year stent of methadone. Thats why im trying to stay away from those long acting meds, because at some time in the near future i want to try to taper off everthing. Although i was told i'd be on pain meds the rest of my life- ive proven doctors wrong before(several times at the least). My confidence in doctors and the medical profession as a whole has been lowered. The more doctors i talk to the more i find out that most of them dont know what they are talking about or simply dont care about anything except money. It a sad situation and i see only getting worse.
^ I guess your right on some counts about doctors, the best thing to do is be assertive with them, and not let them intimidate you into thinking they know more. The only way you can do that is by educating yourself.
I'm having a difficult time interpreting your regimen, can you please elaborate, hydrocodone x 2 daily, and hydromorphone PRN, Diazepam x 1 weekly?
I'm having a difficult time interpreting your regimen, can you please elaborate, hydrocodone x 2 daily, and hydromorphone PRN, Diazepam x 1 weekly?
I'm prescribed 4 1/2 Lotab 10/500 daily. Also 2 mg Dilaudid whenever my pain gets out of control, no more than 2mg a day but I try to very rarely take them. If I take one i'll wait at least 5 days before I take it again. Pretty much the same with Valium 5-15mg in one day. With the Valium I wait 7 to 10 days before I take any more. Thats what i'm wanting to know... How many days between doses of 2mg Dilaudid would be safe?
RobotRipping
Bluelighter
and you're taking the diluaid orally? i'd say within 2 days that should be out of your system then. I wouldn't even bother taking 2mg dilaudid orally for pain, does that actually do anything? not that i recommend doing anything else with it but for that 2mg, hardly any makes it to your brain, meaning it takes less time to reach the terminal half life. I'd say spacing it out by 3 days would be fine, but just look up the half life of hydromorpone orally and do 5 half lifes on it and it's considered out of the body. It's going to depend on your metabolism and other things though.
psychologically, you probably should just not use the dilaudid. I know that would completely fuck with me if i were addicted to opiates in the past.
psychologically, you probably should just not use the dilaudid. I know that would completely fuck with me if i were addicted to opiates in the past.
I have taken a Dilaudid once so far and it definitely gave me some extra relief. I don't consider myself "addicted". I would like to stop doing all pain meds and I'm planning on trying to tsper in the near future. I'm not doing meds for a high itds dtrictly for pain. If you were in my shoes right now i think you would understand. There is a difference in being addicted and being dependant. I dont crave the high feeling at all i "crave" pain relief.
Being that all opiates / opioids have a cross tolerance to a fairly large extent, even if you are spacing out the doses of dilaudid, since you are taking hydrocodone daily you're going to slowly but surely require higher doses to achieve the same level of pain management. This is the sad truth of the opiate trap.
Also, what exactly is the reason for the benzos? As others have said this is risky unless you have a tolerance to both opiates and benzos. Even if you do, you should have a good reason for combining them beyond recreation, as benzo addiction is something you really don't want to have to deal with on top of chronic pain.
Also, what exactly is the reason for the benzos? As others have said this is risky unless you have a tolerance to both opiates and benzos. Even if you do, you should have a good reason for combining them beyond recreation, as benzo addiction is something you really don't want to have to deal with on top of chronic pain.
I'll ask the question differently. If you are not taking any opioids at all- at what intervals could you take 1-2mg dilaudid and not become dependant? How long should you wait (days/weeks?) before taking another2mg dilaudid?
Also, you asked why i take Valium. I take it once in awhile just to have a day of relief from battling the pain constantly. Its very stressful and builds up alot of tension and anxiety just fighting the pain. The muscle relaxant properties also add a little extra relief. Valium takes my mind off the pain abit- its a much needed although short lived vacation from the stress.
Also, you asked why i take Valium. I take it once in awhile just to have a day of relief from battling the pain constantly. Its very stressful and builds up alot of tension and anxiety just fighting the pain. The muscle relaxant properties also add a little extra relief. Valium takes my mind off the pain abit- its a much needed although short lived vacation from the stress.
Its difficult to say because no one shares your biological make up.
In theory you could do hydromorphone x 2 weekly without getting physically dependent, but you'd be treading a fine line for habituation in turn leading to psychological dependence. Once that occurs you'll justify taking hydromorphone x 3 weekly because your still not physically dependent, sooner or later you'll become dependent and then addicted.
I'm just outlining for you a theoretical scenario of how this path starts, if your strong enough which is not the case with the majority of people, you'll keep it at x 2 weekly, if not then you can very easily find yourself at the end of that path.
Buyers beware.
In theory you could do hydromorphone x 2 weekly without getting physically dependent, but you'd be treading a fine line for habituation in turn leading to psychological dependence. Once that occurs you'll justify taking hydromorphone x 3 weekly because your still not physically dependent, sooner or later you'll become dependent and then addicted.
I'm just outlining for you a theoretical scenario of how this path starts, if your strong enough which is not the case with the majority of people, you'll keep it at x 2 weekly, if not then you can very easily find yourself at the end of that path.
Buyers beware.
IME diualid is so weak orally 2mg is not something to worry about, however combined with taking hydrocodone regularly you could have a problem
Taking anyone opiate/opioid regularly will result in addiction, everyone's different when it comes to how long it takes
Taking anyone opiate/opioid regularly will result in addiction, everyone's different when it comes to how long it takes
Why does everyone automatically think someone will become addicted? I'm not addicted, I'm physically dependent. I would like nothing more than to be off these meds. I do not take them for a high, I take them for pain relief. If I wanted to get high I would use someting organic, definitely not chemicals. I hope everyone understands that there is a difference between addicted and dependent. You can be addicted but not dependent, you can be dependent and not addicted. I don't crave the feeling I get from the meds, I actually do not like the way they make me feel- other than the partial pain relief. And the reason I take the valium every once in a while is to get alittle stress and anxiety relief caused by fighting pain every minute of everyday. I take take them about 4 times a month, sometimes less, mainly when I get extremely stressed.
Could you explain what you meant when you ssid "sooner or later youll become physically dependent then addicted"? Because it sounds like if anyone becomes physically dependent and does not detox immediately then shortly afterwards they will become addicted". Is this always true or just your experience? I not being defensive i would just lkie to know. Thanks. And i do appreciate your feedback.
wharf_rat
Greenlighter
dependant - addicted
potato - poTAdo
That's just my opinion though. I have never actually taken any pain meds for PAIN, so admittedly I can't relate.
But I CAN vouch for the fact that even addicts get to the point of taking opiates because they need it physically, not necessarily to get high.
any hey... w/d hurts!
potato - poTAdo
That's just my opinion though. I have never actually taken any pain meds for PAIN, so admittedly I can't relate.
But I CAN vouch for the fact that even addicts get to the point of taking opiates because they need it physically, not necessarily to get high.
any hey... w/d hurts!
'medicine cabinet'
Bluelighter
sorry if you posted it and i missed it OP, but why were you on methadone for 4 years? was it pain mngmnt or for another reason like being addicted to another opiate?
This is the way I look at it, and it's only an opinion. Use for a legitimate medical condition at recommended doses will likely cause dependence. (For example myself having anxiety and taking Valium on a regular basis.)
The term addict is a bit more derogatory in sound, and I reserve it for use going above and beyond what's needed to treat a medical condition. Then again, people often have underlying issues we don't know about, so the use could still be legitimate, just not doctor approved.
It really all boils down to semantics. 8(
The term addict is a bit more derogatory in sound, and I reserve it for use going above and beyond what's needed to treat a medical condition. Then again, people often have underlying issues we don't know about, so the use could still be legitimate, just not doctor approved.
It really all boils down to semantics. 8(
Well as you stated dependence and addiction have causal relationship.
The motivation in your addiction at first would be to cater to your pain which would provide you reinforcement (psychological dependence) slowly turning into you servicing your physical dependence. The physical dependence which will inevitably happen as you continue to use. The end of this path is addiction because you will no longer be able to function both mentally and physically without the drug.
Use ---> Psychological Dependence ---> Physical Dependence ---> Addiction
In the cases of many recreational drug users their motivation is to achieve a feeling which is reinforcing (psychological dependence) but just as in your case once (physical) dependence prevails due to repeated use, it stops becoming so much about the reinforcement (psychological dependence) and becomes about catering to the physical dependence which again leads to an end result of an inability to function without the drug as the user cannot be functional both physically and mentally without it.
Use ---> Psychological dependence ---> Physical dependence ---> Addiction
The thing about addiction is that it has so many definitions since too many things fall under it. In substance addiction the easiest way to understand it is the inability to stop using drugs despite the consequences of dependence (physical and psychological) deteriorating. So in essence addiction is a blanket term with two main components to it, physical, and psychological meaning that technically, the majority of humans are addicted in some way shape or form and as stated before whats detrimental in how far the path goes are a wide array of things, with most researchers claiming it to be neuro-chemical (disease), and others insisting that it is no more than simple operant conditioning.
Even with all of that said, as Bronson mentioned the semantics are very complex.
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