Tryptamines Nasal formulation experiment 2

[Elevana]

Formulation : 2mg Tadalafil + 10mg 4-HO-MET
Roa: nasal spray
Buffer: Hydroxypropyl methylcellulose
Hydroxypropyl beta cyclodextrin
Peg400
Sodium citrate
Citrix acid
Water for injection


5min

Effects come on the Tadalafil greatly enhances the effects of the 4-ho-met. A rush or euphoria, color enhancement and objects zooming in and out take effect

The Tadalafil gives it a more stimulating effect, I can feel every sensation in my environment, the colds, the warmth’s, the smells, the gentle breeze coolness ignites a rush of energy

10min

Everything feels so alive, the colors are so vibrant but not in an over saturated way but as they are more visually enhanced I notice the different shades of green when looking at leaves. The different colors of brown when looking at the branches.

When I drink cold water I can feel the sensation penetrating through every sensory system of my body.

I’m loosing sense of time minutes feel like hours. I have no awareness nor care for time. Just living in the moment taking everything in at my own pace

I just want to lay outside in the sun with others and not say anything but just be in there presence and feel there energy. No words need to be said and it could feel as if we are connecting on a deep level through emotional connection

As I look at the water I see patterns of schools of fish but not actual fish just the patterns

I’m hyper aware of every sound the branches ruffling, the birds chirping, all the sounds blend into one connected ecosystem

2hr

I am at a pool party downtown and the music playing in the speakers sounds amazing,

Each pool girl employee that walked by looked as if they were modeling in a runway, the way they walked it was like they were putting on a show.

Felt so open minded and empathetic when communicating with other. Wanted to go deep conversations

When talking to women I noticed subtle cues of nervousness whether brushing there hair back unconsciously, the different tones in there voice I was able to correlate with each cue and connect with them on a deeper emotional level.

I could feel them slowly moving closer to me the deeper in conversation we went, they would unconsciously touch my hand or put a hand on my shoulder, which sent rushes of euphoria and I could feel them getting excited, there pupils would widen and become more doe like. So calm and beautiful

The more submissive actions the women was showing the more masculine, confident and empathetic I became it’s as if she was feeding my masculinity with each femininity and they two were dancing and supporting each other

Its as if we both knew what was going on but were just unconsciously acting there was not need to understand or coordinate those interactions

I was talking to one person about imaging a being that could experience every emotion, every perspective, every thought being connected to everyone and everything.

When I I talked about this it started thinking what that would feel like experiencing all those aspects in one being.

Would it be too overwhelmed?

Would it be able to connect with other?

Would even need to connect with others?

Then I realized the whole pool party experience, environment, all the people , all the emotions, and interactions is exactly what all those aspects would be experiencing into one.

I was experiencing what I was describing to that person

6hr

I’m laying on the ground thinking to myself what if I gave this formulation to homeless people, would it somehow change their current mindsets to make a change. To somehow look at their current habits from a different perspective, viewpoint. Could it help them break there addictions from addictive drugs. I wondered Do homeless people have deep conversations amongst each other? What if this formulation could bring them together to talk deep, to show them empathy and love to ignite them to change their current life. What if this formulation could help them understand and face the trauma within.
Do homeless people consume psychedelic drugs?

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[pupnik]

homelessness is more of a lack of pool parties than a lack of psychedelia

 

[Elevana]

homelessness is more of a lack of pool parties than a lack of psychedelia

But are homeless people taking psychedelics typically, there usually on highly addictive, destructive drugs like fentanyl, meth and other opioid substances.

Obviously it’s more than just highly addictive drugs that makes people homeless but that plays a big role in their situation.

What if psychedelics could somehow help homeless people to feel empathy and love towards themselves and others. Too bring to the surface the trauma within to come to terms with that trauma and to look at that trauma from a different perspective.

 

[Featherfall]

What if psychedelics could somehow help homeless people to feel empathy and love towards themselves and others. Too bring to the surface the trauma within to come to terms with that trauma and to look at that trauma from a different perspective.

brother, if you think the issue with being homeless is them just not feeling love enough and not dropping acid, then i think you might need some more empathy towards others

 

[Elevana]

brother, if you think the issue with being homeless is them just not feeling love enough and not dropping acid, then i think you might need some more empathy towards others

Did You read my comment? I said also to help bring to the surface the traumas within to give them a different perspective of those traumas. To look at the world from a different perspective. Also a lot of them have never felt loved or empathy and is why they treat themselves so poorly. They have no love or respect for themselves. They are running away from themselves by taking hardcore drugs.

Also it could be something completely unrelated some mental disease that doesn’t allow them to function in the confines of society.

Also what makes you say I need more empathy towards others? The fact that I have thoughts of the homeless people in my mind means I have empathy towards them and wanting to help them.

Instead of just being negative toward me why don’t you supply actual solutions to my idea, or an actual solution to the problem.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Sometimes it's best to just let them be shower thoughts.

 

[pupnik]

oddly now that I can access bad drugs like cocaine, I do less acid, which I like a lot more.
who knows maybe these homeless drug addicts are using hard drugs to stay off lsd, which may seem absurd, but it makes sense in some ways too.

 

[Elevana]

I’m the complete opposite dopaminergic drugs are boring to me, just the same dopamine high, there’s no depth to them, no meaning. They don’t allow me to think outside the box or view things from a different perspective like psychedelics do. They feel very egoistical while with psychedelics I want to connect and empathize with people and have deep meaningful conversations

 

[Esperighanto]

I’m laying on the ground thinking to myself what if I gave this formulation to homeless people, would it somehow change their current mindsets to make a change. To somehow look at their current habits from a different perspective, viewpoint. Could it help them break there addictions from addictive drugs. I wondered Do homeless people have deep conversations amongst each other? What if this formulation could bring them together to talk deep, to show them empathy and love to ignite them to change their current life. What if this formulation could help them understand and face the trauma within.

Instead of just being negative toward me why don’t you supply actual solutions to my idea, or an actual solution to the problem.

I'm gonna respond to both of these comments in the same go, but I understand where you're coming from. I've provided LSD, psilocybin containing fungi, ayahuasca, psilohuasca and lysergahuasca to unhouse people and I have spent large swaths of my younger years unhoused as well. There is no singular issue that can be addressed for all who are lacking shelter, and I can speak from experience that adding serotonergics to the equation almost never helps them, that's for damnnnnn sure. What helped the most often was just some good weed, long conversations with buddhist/meditative/peaceful undertones, giving them some hothands (chemical warming things, I was in Maine at the time in the winter) and some cash and some non-perishables and shit. Think of it as helping people to meet their Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if that makes sense.

Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent rn, just bumped 15mg of 2C-B to celebrate its 51st birthday.

 

[Elevana]

I'm gonna respond to both of these comments in the same go, but I understand where you're coming from. I've provided LSD, psilocybin containing fungi, ayahuasca, psilohuasca and lysergahuasca to unhouse people and I have spent large swaths of my younger years unhoused as well. There is no singular issue that can be addressed for all who are lacking shelter, and I can speak from experience that adding serotonergics to the equation almost never helps them, that's for damnnnnn sure. What helped the most often was just some good weed, long conversations with buddhist/meditative/peaceful undertones, giving them some hothands (chemical warming things, I was in Maine at the time in the winter) and some cash and some non-perishables and shit. Think of it as helping people to meet their Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if that makes sense.

Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent rn, just bumped 15mg of 2C-B to celebrate its 51st birthday.

That’s interesting. Congratulations on your journey out of homelessness that takes a lot of determination.

I understand your point about Maslow’s hierarchy, and I agree that warmth, food, shelter, safety, money, and genuine human connection are far more urgent than trying to create a transformative psychedelic experience for someone whose basic needs are not being met. The practical support you described sounds materially useful and grounded in what people actually needed at that moment.

Because you have direct experience providing LSD, psilocybin-containing fungi, ayahuasca, psilohuasca, and lysergahuasca in those circumstances, I’m curious about what led you to conclude that serotonergics almost never helped.

What specifically tended to happen? Did the experiences increase anxiety, paranoia, confusion, trauma responses, emotional instability, or disconnection from immediate reality? Did people simply return to the same overwhelming conditions afterward, making any insight or temporary benefit impossible to sustain? Were there meaningful differences between the substances, or was the broader problem that an intense psychedelic experience did not address the person’s immediate material circumstances?

What I’m curious about is what you observed after giving them these substances. When you say they almost never helped, what actually happened? Did people experience panic, paranoia, confusion, psychosis, resurfacing trauma, emotional destabilization, or dangerous behavior? Were there differences between LSD, psilocybin, ayahuasca, psilohuasca, and lysergahuasca, or did you see broadly similar outcomes with all of them?

I also wonder how you defined whether the experience helped. Were you looking for changes in housing status, addiction, depression, trauma symptoms, relationships, motivation, or day-to-day functioning? How long were you able to remain in contact with the people afterward?

 

[Esperighanto]

But are homeless people taking psychedelics typically, there usually on highly addictive, destructive drugs like fentanyl, meth and other opioid substances.

I've met many homeless people who will literally eat an entire sheet of acid if provided the opportunity, without hesitation. Same thing with mushroom doses measured in quarter-to-half ounce intervals, often exceeding an ounce if provided with free access to concentrates (I was using freshly compressed mushroom opium at the time).

They are running away from themselves by taking hardcore drugs.

I would argue that the majority of homeless people I've ever known to use methamphetamine, they take it in rather small amounts continuously to remain alert and resilient in streets where everything wants them to die. As far as opioids, since heroin dried up here in the US the only homeless folks who use opis are people with legitimate chronic pain issues, I've met many people who were homeless because they got a workplace injury, lost their job, and lost their housing as a result of that, and without housing or a car they can't get to the pharmacy to pick up their Dilaudid or whatever they'd otherwise be using.

I’m the complete opposite dopaminergic drugs are boring to me, just the same dopamine high, there’s no depth to them, no meaning. They don’t allow me to think outside the box or view things from a different perspective like psychedelics do. They feel very egoistical while with psychedelics I want to connect and empathize with people and have deep meaningful conversations

Some things capture the stimulation and clarity of traditionally dopaminergic stimulants while also maintaining the hyperassociative qualities you're pointing out in psychedelics here. I love both of these categories, but they're both just amplifiers upon different vectors imo. It's like if we were a PC, dopaminergic stimulants can get the CPU's clock speed running faster, sure, but psychedelics are like jumping from an 8-bit processor to a 64-bit imo.

That’s interesting. Congratulations on your journey out of homelessness that takes a lot of determination.

Thanks, it was the classic American dilemma of "am I going to wrap up my degree and pay tuition, and couchsurf a bunch as a result, or not wrap up my degree and have that fuck up my employability". Thankfully I've always had community, couches to be on and shit, I was never setting up a tent on a sidewalk thankfully. When covid hit, the career path I'd found myself paying rent with (audio engineering live events, DJing/producing, and tutoring) all went up in smoke, so I did as my Romani ancestors did. Pack my shit up in the whip and hit the road. Ended up back where I grew up in Maine (was at university in South Florida), wrapped the degree up that year remotely, and scooted into an apartment in the city close to where the jobs in my field were.

The experience I had is so fundamentally different from the extremely rough living conditions of the majority of transient/unhoused people though, I want to super explicitly explain what my situation was so that people understand where my lived experiences do and don't overlap with what we're speaking on here.

Because you have direct experience providing LSD, psilocybin-containing fungi, ayahuasca, psilohuasca, and lysergahuasca in those circumstances, I’m curious about what led you to conclude that serotonergics almost never helped.

What specifically tended to happen? Did the experiences increase anxiety, paranoia, confusion, trauma responses, emotional instability, or disconnection from immediate reality? Did people simply return to the same overwhelming conditions afterward, making any insight or temporary benefit impossible to sustain? Were there meaningful differences between the substances, or was the broader problem that an intense psychedelic experience did not address the person’s immediate material circumstances?

What I’m curious about is what you observed after giving them these substances. When you say they almost never helped, what actually happened? Did people experience panic, paranoia, confusion, psychosis, resurfacing trauma, emotional destabilization, or dangerous behavior? Were there differences between LSD, psilocybin, ayahuasca, psilohuasca, and lysergahuasca, or did you see broadly similar outcomes with all of them?

I also wonder how you defined whether the experience helped. Were you looking for changes in housing status, addiction, depression, trauma symptoms, relationships, motivation, or day-to-day functioning? How long were you able to remain in contact with the people afterward?

Serotonergics were almost always something that would have been useful if they had a job to go to, and a roof over their head, as peeling back layers of cognition in the way that serotonergics do is practically useless when your prime directive every day is like, being alert enough to not get assaulted, avoiding abusive police activity, finding food, losing a minimal amount of appendage and soft tissue to to the Maine winters, all that jazz. Sometimes people would find like, a half tab or single tab of acid, or a few loose grams of mushrooms useful, but harmalas were virtually always useless in their cases. Vaporized DMT in sub-breakthrough doses were also useful, these lower doses function more like holistic cognitive enhancers when they're right around threshold, but it was far more valuable to pop a meth addy than to pop half a gel tab still, just based on the context of their brutal living conditions. Sometimes traumas, anxiety, paranoia, or other mental illness would arise, but that was almost exclusively an issue of harmalas first, and mushrooms second. There is absolutely a hierarchy of usefulness between these five drugs/drug combinations, but as dose increases, usefulness decreases with an almost guaranteed certainty in this context.

LSD on its own was by far the smoothest drug to apply to this population, the people who took mushrooms were usually a coin flip as to whether or not the mushrooms were kind or cruel, harmalas were almost a guaranteed tragedy. Lysergahuasca could work for some, and had a proclivity for demasking peoples' projected images of themselves in a way that ayahuasca nor psilohuasca did. Ayahuasca was straight up fucking brutal and had zero application here, psilohuasca was specifically useful for people who were taking low doses as performance enhancers, as you can redose the harmalas and stretch a couple grams of mid quality cubensis like 14-18 hours with enough harmaline spaced out in time adequately. By far the largest problem here is exactly as you said, the psychedelia simply does not address the person's immediate material conditions. Most people only require one or two meaningfully transformative psychedelic experiences to get the majority of growth from it that they can get, it's rare that people continue to draw benefit from continued use over time, even with complete tolerance resets. Nearly everybody I gave these drugs to had previously used LSD and mushrooms.

I'd log things like onset time, time until the full character of the experience kicked in, take BP/BPM readings, note pupillary dilation, any other coadministered substances (usually suboxone, methylphenidate, cannabis and spice, and sometimes methamphetamine), and always try to pay attention to how the "non-specific amplification" of my psychedelic therapy idol Grof's description went, the quote was something like:

These substances function as unspecific amplifiers that increase the cathexis (energetic charge) associated with the deep unconscious contents of the psyche and make them available for conscious processing. This unique property of psychedelics makes it possible to study psychological undercurrents that govern our experiences and behaviours to a depth that cannot be matched by any other method and tool available in modern mainstream psychiatry and psychology.

What I found was that there was almost always some degree of familiarity with how to "steer" or "direct" the direction of the trip given past drug experiences, and very often there were cathartic, connective conversations held during the trip. Even during difficult experiences, people were extremely hesitant to administer tripkillers, they could feel a drive to ride out the difficult experience which I found interesting, as when I normally guide sessions people are super fucking prone to using tripkillers in ways that I personally view as somewhat wasteful. Overall, the unhoused population was often amplifying the unspecific fight-or-flight state they had been living in, but also could associate it back to deeper sources of meaning and motivation.

I haven't spoken much about the time I spent running many hundreds of blind trials on people over the years, ranging from the esoteric gaggle of hippies I was cohabitating with, the unhouse folks all around us at that point in time, etc. because it's the type of thing that I definitely don't think most people should do. Damn, I mean, I probably shouldn't have been either, but at the time I genuinely believed it was being done with only gain to be acquired, not harm. Foolishness in retrospect stings with a particularly intense bite that foolishness in the present lacks, it's mad peculiar. I also gathered a lot of data on how drugs, social engineering, specific rhetorical techniques, and understanding models of analyzing mental illness and trauma could all intersect to induce self harm and suicidality. It's not the trickiest thing to run a mini-MKUltra, and I do not think it's to the net benefit of us societally.

Sorry for the rantiness, just iced up.

Edit: Forgot to respond to this one,

I also wonder how you defined whether the experience helped. Were you looking for changes in housing status, addiction, depression, trauma symptoms, relationships, motivation, or day-to-day functioning? How long were you able to remain in contact with the people afterward?

Most people were around for at least a handful of months afterwards, and most were more sociable for a while but the harshness of their living conditions would snap them back into survival mode pretty rapidly. Some of these people got off the street, a small handful it turns out were masking bigotry that led to escalations of violence that permanently altered the courses of their spiteful lives, often losing what little community support they had. I'm a queer man who was in a poly situation with 7 other people (almost all queer) and this guy who I was facilitating some temporary shelter for in the form of my apartment lobby just could not hold his tongue with the homophobia. This elderly man of seemingly no mental illness but solely antisocial hatred and bigotry thought it was wise to scrap despite the fact that he often went days without eating? I don't know what he expected but he was a classic example of someone who's homelessness was the result of antisociality compromising what possible community he could even have.