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Naltrexone: ULD to stop tolerance buildup and Precipitated Withdrawals

I mean there's gotta be an exact point where it's "Okay, no addiction" and "Okay, addicted" right?

I'd say no that is not true at all. Of course everybody's gonna draw their own lines about these things which I think depends on way too many factors for everyone to ever agree on (ie dose, frequency, predisposition (environmental or genetic), availability etc etc).

For me it boils down to tolerance; as soon as you're not gettin' the same feelin from the same dose your body has begun to adjust to the drug and it's gonna come back 'round no matter what you tell yourself. I've been using opioids anywhere from 1-7 times a week for about 3 years now and my tolerance is still absurdly low because I refuse to increase my doses. Eating one poppy pod can still get me high, 10mg hydrocodone feels nice, 5mg heroin hcl is perfect, 10mg oxycodone gets me blasted etc. But enough about me.

I've found a lot of info about co-administration of ULD naltrexone with morphine and oxycodone (edit: only in rodents though) and one study found the optimal dose of naltrex for eliminating tolerance and WD was 100ng/kg [1]. I'm doing more reading about it and when I go to work tomorrow I'll ask my boss if she knows anything about it (I work in a behav. pharmacol. lab with rhesus monkeys doin heroin vs. food SA experiments) and/or maybe if she'll let me design some experiments cause primate data with this stuff would be gold!
 
Okay, we all have heard of like "3 days on, 3 days off" with heroin right (or some variation thereof).

Could you use naltrexone to change that to "3 days on, 1.5 days off" ?
 
As long as you're not dependent on opiates then you could probably take like 1mg after you get high and it has worn off with little discomfort to reduce tolerance and possibly keep you from getting addicted.
 
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Whatever you do, do not IV a pill or any part of a pill. Naltrexone is orally bioavailable, so there is no point in risking a stroke and injecting pills. Since you have the HCl salt of naltrexone, it must be at least somewhat water soluble. Why not crush a pill in water (like 2 pills in 50mg of deionized water), blend thoroughly and allow everything to dissolve that is going to dissolve. Then just filter and you have a 2mg/mL solution of naltrexone, dose 250 uL with a pipet or oral syringe.

The ultra low dose regimen might help you up the expression of mu receptors and help with the depression of withdrawal.
 
^

yea i was thinking of doing that to reach the low doses needed.

The problem with ULD here though, is how much should I take, and when? With the dose, before it, after, etcetera....

Apparently no one here as done it? I mean all I've heard is tests on animals, and who knows what that means. Not like you can ask a rat "hey did you get just as high this time around!" Sure, I understand they can measure effectiveness, but considering how long tolerance takes to develop...

Maybe it doesn't matter. I mean it takes like what, weeks, to develop any build in tolerance? I'm still interested in ULD though. I mean one 50 mg pill could last forever (just cut a pill in half, put it in water, or use one of those super expensive scales, whatever). So I'm not worried about dose too much. What I'm worried about is like HOW DO YOU ULD!?

As long as you're not dependent on opiates then you could probably take like 1mg after you get high

From what I understand, it's like they give 5-10mg to overdose victims, so 1 mg would probably be too much for ULD. Like, way too much? What you seem to talk about is using naltrexone for detox, which is my question.

Apparently one poster above used it with some success, who would dose during the day, detox himself at night through his sleep, and the next day have a clean system and dose again. Which is kinda my question, which I'll repeat:

Can't you use naltrexone to make the "3 days on, 3 days off" regimen to "3 days on, 1.5 days off" or some variation thereof. I mean whenever you use opiates, there is gonna be some in your system. If you use naltrexone, couldn't it detox your system quicker?

I don't think it's correct to say if you need to detox that implies physical dependence. You have SOMETHING in your system whenever you use, however slight it may be. By using naltrexone, you could maybe remove whatever traces you have quicker than by cold turkey.
 
Ok guys! I just made a solution of 0.001mg/ml (1 mcg/ml) naltrexone hcl and plan on trying it (I'm thinking 1ml - any feedback??) with about $10 of NE #4 once I get home from work. This isn't any sort of controlled or measured experiment in anyway, I just wanna satisfy my curiosity about the acute effects (if any) of this combination. Tick tick tock!
 
Wasn't negrogesic toying with this a couple years or so back? I think he may have posted a thread about it, i'm going to try and find it.
 
I dont mean to pick but your denial of your addiction is way more serious than trying to detox.

"So I have come across 3 x Naltrexone HCl 50mg pills (Imprint: b / 50 over 902).

I was initially interested in these for precipitated withdrawals. Recently I've been doing heroin and, while I haven't done enough to really serious physical addiction or to get serious withdrawal symptoms (I get blasted off $20 still), I have been dosing daily for quite some time."

been dosing daily for quite some time...
trying to detox w/ chemical help...
2 bags a day isn't a "serious" addiction but its an addiction nonetheless.
think about it... you are using every day how can you not be addicted?

Im really not trying to start a ruckus here but this bothers the shit out of me.

be e z, -Spaz-
 
Im really not trying to start a ruckus here but this bothers the shit out of me.

Great, here's my carecup \_/

Even if I had an addiction so what, all your post does is derail the thread. So let's assume you are correct, that I am physically addicted: You still fail to answer two inquiries I posted about: ULD Dosing and Naltrexone as a detoxification agent in a person who has levels of heroin present in their body that do not amount to physical addiction levels

If you read anything at all, you would have seen the answers to your questions. I have Chronic insomnia, which means it's persistent. Most forms of insomnia last for a few days to a couple months. I've had insomnia for over 10 years now. Last year, I could count the number of days I slept before 4 AM on my hand. The fact of the matter is that without the use of drugs, I cannot fall asleep unless I have been up for over 20 hours.

Due to this extreme chronic insomnia and my RLS, which have been medically diagnosed and on my medical records, I am resilient to heroin withdrawal symptoms. Any kind of withdrawal symptoms I may have been subject to, I simply don't notice because I already have the most major symptoms of acute withdrawal - insomnia and RLS. In a way, I'm always in withdrawal.

Am I psychologically addicted? I believe I am, to a severe degree. But I am not physically addicted. It is not denial, it is the truth, as I have quit heroin once again and have yet to feel any withdrawal symptoms. Sorry to dissapoint you.

ANYWAYS:


When you use heroin just once, you will have some in your system. The idea by many is that you can use heroin 3 days, but you must give your system a 3 day, or whatever, break before you can use again to avoid addiction for most people. My theory is that you could use naltrexone to detoxify your system quicker, and make this break period shorter.

Detox doesn't just refer to clearing out a high level addiction, it just means cleaning out your system. You can detox your body even if you have no drug addiction. It is simply a way to purify your body of whatever, there are many kinds of detox. The detox I am referring ot here, is in reference to the fact that even if you do one bag of heroin, your only one that month, you will have heroin in your system. I was wondering how to detox low amounts of heroin in the body with naltrexone.

Obviously, there is a point in your drug use where you would not get withdrawal symptoms, and a point where you would. If you continue to use, you will get to have withdrawal symptoms and enter that stage of addiction. At this point, you need to take a short break from heroin, so you can return your body to baseline, and start afresh - in other words, you need to detox before you can continue using without getting a physical addiction. I was thinking you could use naltrexone to speed up this detoxification, and shorten this break.

We all have heard that regarding heroin use, it is "3 days on, 3 days off". I was thinking with the aide of naltrexone, you could shorten the time "off". Ie, make it 3 days on, 1 day off w/naltrexone". My question is what dose of naltrexone would you take, how you administer it, and how long does the naltrexone last in your system.


Ok guys! I just made a solution of 0.001mg/ml (1 mcg/ml) naltrexone hcl and plan on trying it (I'm thinking 1ml - any feedback??) with about $10 of NE #4 once I get home from work. This isn't any sort of controlled or measured experiment in anyway, I just wanna satisfy my curiosity about the acute effects (if any) of this combination. Tick tick tock!

Good luck! If this turns out to be too much, you won't get high. Make sure you try it with some dope you've done before, so you can tell if you either just got weak dope, or if the naltrexone itself actually interfered with the high. There are reports that using naltrexone in ULD can actually incrrease the high, so that's another reason you should be familiar with the dope, that way you can tell if it's potentiated by the antagonist. In any event, if it doesn't weaken your high, it should at least help in preventing tolerance buildup.

Please report!
 
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While it may be wrong of me, It was of my opinion to bring to your attention a topic that i thought was more important and does loosely relate to your post.

You just expect me to have read your threads? what?! you are mad because i don't know you background because i haven't read, don't remember your threads? thats not right...

I appreciate you being so thorough in your explanation of your history. I thought by you using daily 2-4 shots a day for quite some time you meant that you had not stopped since you started. I thought you hadn't gone through withdrawals and had no idea what you were going against. i didn't realize you have withdrawn after binges with no ill effects. I also didn't realize you admit to being psychologically addicted. Man, I was simply looking out for a fellow bluelgihter, i meant no harm by it. I am an addict and try to care for addicts around me. It helps me to come on this board everyday to help people. i truly apologize if i stirred your pot (in the bad way).

I'm sorry i don't know the answer to your OP and in retrospect i should have just pm'd you.

Sorry, -Spaz-
 
I thought by you using daily 2-4 shots a day for quite some time you meant that you had not stopped since you started. I

Oh no, it's 2-4 weeks, shooting only a medium dose per day, only once the day, and at night, at the end of the day. Jesus, 4 shots a day, I could not imagine that.

I thought you hadn't gone through withdrawals and had no idea what you were going against. i

I've never gone through noticeable withdrawal and I've gone as far to use daily for as long as 5 weeks (with a couple days of breaks here in there for whatever obligations). I just take longer to develop them I guess. I may have felt minor symptoms before, ie a little chilly or the shits, but nothing really significant and that couldnt have been from something else or merely placebo. Definitely never significant symptoms though. I'm sure I've gone through withdrawal, but never noticed simply because of my severe insomnia.

For the longest time I thought withdrawal took like 3 months of daily use to develop, and despite using heroin for over 4 years, I just learned like 2 months ago that it takes only like 3 days for most people to start to take root.

I can see how you got misled, sorry to be hostile (man I'm an ass sometimes). I should've been more clear and wasn't, I didn't really want to explain it all again since I'm sure most people are sick of hearing over and over how I never get addicted. I appreciate you taking the time to reconcile and sorry for being such an ass. It's at least partially my fault for not being more clear. Most people know how I've chipped so I shouldn't have assumed you would have too.

Anyways, back on topic!

Obviously, there is a point in your drug use where you would not get withdrawal symptoms, and a point where you would. If you continue to use, you will get to have withdrawal symptoms and enter that stage of addiction. At this point, you need to take a short break from heroin, so you can return your body to baseline, and start afresh - in other words, you need to detox before you can continue using without getting a physical addiction. I was thinking you could use naltrexone to speed up this detoxification, and shorten this break.

We all have heard that regarding heroin use, it is "3 days on, 3 days off". I was thinking with the aide of naltrexone, you could shorten the time "off". Ie, make it 3 days on, 1 day off w/naltrexone". My question is what dose of naltrexone would you take, how you administer it, and how long does the naltrexone last in your system.

And CretiNation please report how it goes!
 
Up.

Can anyone answer how naltrexone can be used for someone who has little or not tolerance?

Any insight on how naltrexone could be used to make the "3 days on 3 days off" break shorter? How would it feel? What dose would you use?

I mean what would happen if YOU used naltrexone? Just any insight on using naltrexone to bring precipitous, um, detox, would be nice.
 
Well I haven't done any dope in a day or so and I'm getting kinda sleepy, so I swallowed 2 x 3mg Melatonin pills to knock my ass out, hopefully, and ate like, uhh, like a roughyl split third of a half of a 50mg Naltrexone pill, so like 6-8mg of Naltrexone.

I dunno what it's gonna do. Here's to finding out.
 
I don't think you should call 911. Just sounds like you are going into precipitated withdrawals. I know exactly how you feel, I woke up in the hospital after receiving a shot of narcan. I'm sure you can hang it out. But, I'm not a doctor, it's your call.
 
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