Naltrexone: ULD to stop tolerance buildup and Precipitated Withdrawals

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

So I have come across 3 x Naltrexone HCl 50mg pills (Imprint: b / 50 over 902).

I was initially interested in these for precipitated withdrawals. Recently I've been doing heroin and, while I haven't done enough to really serious physical addiction or to get serious withdrawal symptoms (I get blasted off $20 still), I have been dosing daily for quite some time.

I could easily cold turkey this with little withdrawal symptoms, however I do think I still will get some minor symptoms. I was wondering what dose of the Naltrexone I should take to precipitate a quicker onset of withdrawal, and a more rapid detox.

I know that taking a Naltrexone while no opiates are in your system, nothing will happen. So I imagine if I took them, I would get minor discomfort. I would prefer to do this rather than waiting the usual 1-2 days period before withdrawal symptoms become apparent.

Also, I have heard of something called Ultra-Low Dosing (ULD) where an extremely small dose of Naltrexone with your dope could prevent tolerance from gaining. Since these pills are 50mg each, I think I would have to take like 1/500th of a pill to do this. Anyone have knowledge or experience about preventing tolerance buildup with any sort of Naltrexone? I imagine if I were to do this, I would have to completely smash up the pill and just like, eat a speck the size this size : 0

Thanks in advance. I did a search but no threads directly asked about Naltrexone, rather threads asked about heroin withdrawal and treatment in general and Naltrexone would be mentioned. I found no threads actually discussing this matter directly.

 

[jykkE]

The amount needed to kick the opiates out of the receptors is <1mg. Something like 0.5mg I think.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

I've read reports that ULD Naltrexone can be used to actually synergise an opiate high, and boost analgesic effects.

Ah, so to do this ULD thing where you dose naltrexone hcl to complement the analgesia of heroin and to prevent tolerance gains would be like .005 mg right?

That'd be like a single speck of a crushed pill, right? Something like that? But if the pill wasn't homogeneously mixed you wouldn't know if you were picking up a speck of talc or a speck of naltrexone, so you'd have to do... 2 specks ;/

And I guess for precipitated withdrawals I'd have to take like 1/10th of a pill?

So I imagine the reason for these pills being a whopping 50mg is to make damn sure you can't override them and get high, which is their intended use...

 

[Ham-milton]

Precipitated withdrawals withdrawals will occur at about 5-10mg orally. If you take a whole 50, you're gonna get rocked.

The <1mg thing is for naloxone. It's way more potent, and that's for IV use.

The pill should be homogenously mixed, as well.

ULD Naltrexone can be used, and it won't induce withdrawals. I think it's usually about .5mg.

 

[jykkE]

The <1mg thing is for naloxone. It's way more potent, and that's for IV use.

ULD Naltrexone can be used, and it won't induce withdrawals. I think it's usually about .5mg.

<1mg = 0.5mg, which I said, yes?

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Okay, so how would one go about utilizing a 50mg Naltrexone HCl pill for ULD to regulate tolerance?

Precipitated withdrawals withdrawals will occur at about 5-10mg orally. If you take a whole 50, you're gonna get rocked.

Would it make any difference how much your dose was? Also, I don't know if I'll get 'rocked' because, like I said, I still get super high from a 20 bag. I know that taking a whole pill is a bad idea if you are like seriously addicted, but that's not the case here.

I just want to use the pill to bring on detox quicker to lower my tolerance sooner. That way instead of having to take a week break, per say, I could just take a 3 day break, and be on baseline.

 

[phr]

Not sure that you could substitute Naltrexone for Naloxone if you're trying to use ULD to regulate tolerance. Like Ham pointed out, naloxone is stronger, and has a shorter half-life.

Well, I guess you could use it, but you'd have to use higher doses than naloxone and wait longer before you dose on your opiate. And yeah, you gotta use a needle, preferably IV. Not using a needle completely fucks up naloxone's BA, and probably does the same to naltrexone.

 

[biggerstronger]

naltrexone is made for oral administration as naloxone's BA is so low via the oral route. You could use it, but it would be a pain in the ass to figure out the correct dosage. The studies I've seen include doses in the 50 to <100 microgram range. Which is less than 1/500th of what you've got. Good luck measuring that. lol.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Not sure that you could substitute Naltrexone for Naloxone if you're trying to use ULD to regulate tolerance. Like Ham pointed out, naloxone is stronger, and has a shorter half-life.

Well, I guess you could use it, but you'd have to use higher doses than naloxone and wait longer before you dose on your opiate. And yeah, you gotta use a needle, preferably IV. Not using a needle completely fucks up naloxone's BA, and probably does the same to naltrexone.

Okay, so you're recommending that I IV my Naltrexone pill?

I imagine what you are saying to do, is that I crush up my naltrexone pill, take a couple specks of it, add it to my heroin solution, then filter and shoot as normal?

The dose should be 50-100 ucg right, as biggerstronger said? So that's like a couple specks or whatev? I mean I could just take one or two specks and try it out, it's not a big deal if it doesn't work, it's just that if I use too much it'd be a bad time since I'd be ruining the high.

Then again, maybe I'm better off just not fucking around with naltrexone for ULD? I mean, has anyone done that before, or is it only something that's been done in a clinical study setting?

As for precipitated withdrawals, do I need to IV the stuff for that too?

 

[brutus]

When I was in the detox unit at the rehab facility that I went to, everyone who was detoxing from opiates was given naltrexone to make the withdrawals pass quicker. Everyone went completely ape shit when given the naltrexone and a few even refused to take it. They said it was 10x worse than going through withdrawals cold turkey.

 

[phr]

I wouldn't fuck with ULD unless I had either of them in amps.

 

[CretiNation]

My heroin tolerance/usage sounds EXACTLY the same as yours Theo; $20 of NE #4 will FUCK me up and I usually use around $20 per day in 2-4 doses (or around 20mg pure hcl when available). I also have access to injectable solutions of naltrexone 10mg/ml and 1mg/ml. I've never heard about ULD with naltrexone but I know about precipitated WDs with it or naloxone and I've been contemplating what to do (if anything) with the solutions I have at my disposal.

Do you have access to micron filters? If so you should make a solution with one of them 50mg guys you have and work from there. I'll do some research about ULD with naltrexone this is all very very interesting!

I'm more interested in lowering tolerance and/or weaning off using the 'trex than precipitated WD but this is new to me so if anyone feels like giving me any sort of ideas/tips/advice as to what I could do with the solutions I have it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[swybs]

Of topic, a bit: T-roosevelt, I think you may be kidding yourself with the level of addiction you have (in the past, you've denied any addiction). For years, you have proudly exclaimed that with your cycle of use and your willpower, you've never experienced WDs (well, until now I suppose, based on your post).

Anyway, its been at least a year that I have been reading posts about how you have been using and not becoming addicted, and while I thought maybe you were a scientific abnormality, now I realize the inevitable happened to you-not that I wish it on you or anyone. Just goes to show no one is immune and no "system" of use is perfect-dope gets everyone eventually.

Swybs

 

[Dr. Beat]

i have been on Suboxone (4mg a day) for about 1.5 years now, and i for the first 6 months i would wake up most days with what i call an 'opiate hangover' - very red eyes, very drowsy and lethargic for many hours. I asked my girl friend to watch me while i slept, and she said i breathed extremly slowly, and had very shallow breaths while in deep sleep.

I naturally have very low adrenaline (very low movivation, very low stress levels, low blood pressure and low heart rate), and people with low adrenaline are more prone to opiate hangovers (from what i have read).

And as Suboxone was really helping my life in many ways (completely stopped my binge drinking and poly drug use), and is the best LONG TERM anti- depressant drug i have found (by blocking Kappa receptors)

Most drugs i tried worked short term, but Suboxone is the only drug i have found that works long term as an anti depressant.

So i went to my doctor, who sent me to a Methadone specialist, and i begged for Naltrexone, which he finally gave me, and now i take a very small amount, about 1mg every 2nd or 3nd night, just before i go to bed. When it hits, it feel the Buprenorphine stop working, so i feel flat, so i just go to bed, and i do wake up a little bit flat, but if i wait a few hours, THEN take my Suboxone, then i get a much better high (i feel it up regulates my opiate receptors while i sleep) and i get a MUCH better sleep and wake up much more refreshed and healthy.

The secret is to not take too much, as it is very easy to take a bit too much, then it lasts ALL the next day, so i hardly feel the Suboxone at all and get nothing done.

I have got the 50mg tablet, and i just shave a little big off the end (the stale bit that is exposed to the air) and throw that out, then i just do 2 little shavings and put them on my tongue and drink some cold green tea, to get it in my stomach and off my tongue. Do not brush your teeth straight after or you will not feel it.

Also the Naltrexone will reduce any constipation you get from opiates, and will increase your immune system while you sleep (good for opiates that lower the immune system like Morphine and Herion).

Some people may wonder if a little bit of naltrexone makes a difference, but most of it is broken down in 6beta-Naltexol which is a NEURTAL opiate antagonist, so it does not cause withdrawls (unlike Naloxone) and mostly stays outside of the brain (6beta-Naltrexol hardly crosses the Blood Brain Barrier).

Good luck.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Of topic, a bit: T-roosevelt, I think you may be kidding yourself with the level of addiction you have (in the past, you've denied any addiction). For years, you have proudly exclaimed that with your cycle of use and your willpower, you've never experienced WDs (well, until now I suppose, based on your post).

Anyway, its been at least a year that I have been reading posts about how you have been using and not becoming addicted, and while I thought maybe you were a scientific abnormality, now I realize the inevitable happened to you-not that I wish it on you or anyone. Just goes to show no one is immune and no "system" of use is perfect-dope gets everyone eventually.

I wanted to use Naltrexone to speed up the detox process. I don't have a physical addiction, and no I haven't 'succumbed' or anything like that. I don't have a physical addiction or anything significant. My interest in this topic was that I could use the Naltrexone to speed up the detox, and then be back on 'baseline'. What I mean, is that even though I may not have enough to cause addiction in my system, I do have enough to build an addiction on.

I'm going to stop using heroin, and I've planned to stop using heroin, this week, and was curious if using the Naltrexone would be of any use, and what would it do.

Or, given that I don't have a physical addiction, that there would be no point to it.

I also posted this for "ULD" related discussion. So thanks for your concern. Am I addicted - I'm sure I am psychologically, to a great degree. But physically - no, and as of 4 years of use, I have yet to experience any significant withdrawal symptoms.

So anyone use naltrexone/naloxone for precipitated withdrawals? ANyone use for ULD dosing?

Dr.Beat, are you saying you use naltrexone for ULD? I'm not quite exactly sure what you're doing, are you saying you use the naltrexone scraping to detox your system in your sleep so the next day you don't wake up groggy and to reduce tolerance? That seems on par with what I'm trying to do, I suppose. Take a few scrapings like 10 hours before I dose (ie in the morning maybe).

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Yea dude I just got fucking blasted off $10. Sorry to disappoint, but I have still yet to gain any significant physical addiction and still been a successful chipper for 4 years and counting. I think it's safe to say I may not get addicted, whereas most people who say that eat those words soon after - but only because I've done this for so long and made a pattern of using and accustomed to it in a sustainable manner, rather than the unsustainable downward spiral most get into.

I think it has to do with the fact when I was first doing dope I drove 2 hours to, and 2 hours back, making it so I couldn't really do it every day, and forcing it so if I wanted to get more dope, it'd be like a week before I could actually come up to get it since the deal had to be set up. This broke any sort of addiction to develop, since the problem is usually once you run out you just get more. Now with different connects I can do that, but don't since it's just not how it started for me.

Obviously there is dope in my system, and if I continue to use daily for say, another week, I may start to begin a noticeable physical addiction. I was going to cold turkey it like always, which I've done many times, from a chipping binge that has lasted a period and been at doses I've done countless times.

Naltrexone's part in this picture, is that maybe I could take it to speed up the detox. That way maybe I could start another binge, or whatever, I dunno. Curiosity is a big factor too. I know naltrexone is used on people who are knocked out or sedated with extremely high tolerances, but I was wondering if I could take it as someone who has minor amounts of opiates in their system, which is ultimately my question and point of this thread.

So no, I'm still going to be able to say I'm a successful chipper. No doubt I am extremely addicted to heroin in a psychological sense, and I'm sure there are plenty of negative aspects I could list regarding that and much I could discuss on that issue. But physical addiction, no, I have never felt any significant withdrawal symptoms, and will not in regards to my current use - any withdrawal symptoms I may have experienced have been blanketed and masked by my Chronic Restless Leg Syndrome and Severe Chronic Insomnia, which are the biggest symptoms of acute withdrawal, and compared to my conditions, weaker (at least at my doses). In a way, I am immune to minor withdrawal symptoms, which is probably why I can say I've never experienced significant or noteworthy withdrawal/physical addiction.

So sorry swybs, I will still continue to be such a 'scientific anomaly', and proof that perhaps that some people out there can beat it. Or maybe not, I don't think I'm particularly 'lucky' or 'blessed', since insomnia fucking sucks. Yes, will power is a part of it, but my restlessness is probably the big reason behind it. I have not finally 'succumbed', I only ask this question and wonder if naltrexone could be used to detox my system quicker, and allow me to maybe go on another heroin binge sooner rather than later. Or whatever.

 

[McShroom]

Theodore, how often do you use? I am so envious of all the people that can use opiates occasionally...me, if I use one time it's right back to daily Oxy use...

 

[phr]

Needing to "detox" implies dependence. (What you're referring to as 'physical addiction.')


If you're not dependent(ie: won't experience wd's at all) there is no need to detox. All you'd have to deal with is the addiction(psychological) aspect of quitting.

 

[NickyBundles]

thats crazy, if i were clean and decided to relapse, useing heroin 2 days in a row would cause me to wake up on the third day in withdrawl, i dont no how people chip it amaze's me.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Needing to "detox" implies dependence. (What you're referring to as 'physical addiction.')


If you're not dependent(ie: won't experience wd's at all) there is no need to detox. All you'd have to deal with is the addiction(psychological) aspect of quitting.

Okay, so then I guess no point to use naltrexone for that then? I mean, I imagine I have some opiates in my system, and maybe not enough to cause withdrawal symptoms, it has to be there in minute amounts. I figured using naltrexone would speed up removing these minute amounts.

I mean there's gotta be an exact point where it's "Okay, no addiction" and "Okay, addicted" right?

Whatever, just kinda curious. So how is naltrexone used for precipitated withdrawal? Is it only used on unconscious people, and has no use on people with lesser addictions because its, what, too strong? What about just lowering the dosage? I mean what if you had, say a 2 bag addiction, or whatever. Does naltrexone have any use?

or is it only used on people with extremely high tolerances, for overdoses, and to make sure you can't get high (ie a regimen where you take 50mg per day to make sure you don't relapse).

I use like daily for 2-4 weeks then stop cold turkey long enough to clean my system out, then use again. Usually this involves a month long period of being clean, but can be as short as a week. I have really bad insomnia, so I imagine that any withdrawal symptoms that develop I simply just don't notice. For the longest time I thought addiction developed after daily use 3+ months, and I only learned it can develop in days like a couple months ago.