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Nadh

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asecin

Bluelighter
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Apr 13, 2005
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Hi, guys can you help me out with NADH as supplement for CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome), anyone has experience directly with taking it, or indirectly studied about it.
I just found 2 articles on google confirming it might help with CFS but from wikipedia i gathered other interesting info about it;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NADH#Pharmacology_and_medical_uses

please anyone with experience, knowledge help me out here ?? :(
 
There is no reason to supplement with NAD+ or NADH, it is found in all cells and is an essential component for life & metabolism.

Perhaps you missed:
The coenzyme NAD+ is not itself currently used as a treatment for any disease. [...] Evidence on the use of NAD+ in neurodegeneration is mixed [...] a placebo-controlled clinical trial failed to show any effect.

Eat more plants & meats and less processed food if you need more NAD+.
 
i didnt miss this. just thought seemed questionable since i found some evidence for help in chronic fatigue syndrome. and if you ever had that, you know you cant really eat enough to feel energy. no matter what, just plain food will never add as much when you are deficient based on illness.

seems expensive to buy tho, but i guess if nobody can report it as either being beneficial or detrimental, i might have to go with it and see.
 
If you cannot absorb or process "enough" NAD+ orally you have a serious problem with cellular metabolism. Save your money, any effect is likely to be placebo.

If you were genetically defecient in NAD+ or NADH you would die from a lack of cellular respiration and ATP. Either that, or you'd wither away. Same as if you were deficient in an essential eamio acid or an essential vitamin. Your cells simply cannot live, function, or reproduce if they don't have NADH.

If you eat any sort of plant or animal tissue you are going to be fine w.r.t. NADH. Moreover the cells in your body should produce it anyway.

The only "evidence" i can find that NADH improves CFS is the one double blind study that shows only a modest increase in response over placebo. Other random-ass amino acids that are already present in diet also seem to help so I have my doubts that NADH deficiency is behind CFS. It seems to be sold as a silly health supplement alongside other chemicals like CoQ10 which are mildly beneficial at best but in the long term are healthier to get from complexed plant/animal sources (read:healthy diet) rather than as pure chems.

Also I believe NADH is administered via injection for e.g. neurodegeneration. I imagine it would be destroyed by stomach acid and/or uptaken by gut bacteria.

Again, save your money. The only use for NADH in refined form these days is to provide a "virtual" cell for enzymatic processes. (like running alcohol dehydrogenase in vitro), and for that you buy it from Sigma-Aldrich for $1500 a gram. You don't eat it.
 
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There really isn't much high quality evidence that it does much at all in humans. Also, how is this ADD?
Spend your money on getting some fresh fruit and sunlight
 
"The only "evidence" i can find that NADH improves CFS is the one double blind study that shows only a modest increase in response over placebo. Other random-ass amino acids that are already present in diet also seem to help so I have my doubts that NADH deficiency is behind CFS. It seems to be sold as a silly health supplement alongside other chemicals like CoQ10 which are mildly beneficial at best"

can you explain this, amino acids can help CFS ? so you mean eat lots of protein ? also, please explain the CoQ10 thing. why is it so advertised and popular if it is just a hoax ? its been going on for years since i first read it, if its some bullshit im sure it would have been acknowledged popularly by now.

"Also I believe NADH is administered via injection for e.g. neurodegeneration. I imagine it would be destroyed by stomach acid and/or uptaken by gut bacteria."

this i actually find logically to make sense even if i never encountered actual solid science support behind such statement.
 
I read from the same sources that indicate NAD+ is a "possible treatment" that e.g. L-carintine is also a "possible treatment" with the same mild success rate (20% max over placebo). The L-carintine study was not double blind though.

It's super easy to get people to buy "nutrients" and "supplements" that their bodies don't actually need. Most people have no clue how cellular respiration works nor do they have enough knowledge of biology to know that in 99.9% of cells, there's no "deficiencies" that need to be corrected. So when scienists publish a study saying, for instance, "CoQ10 may decrease the risk of such-and-such disease" people read that as "CoQ10 has been proven to stop you from getting such-and-such disease". In reality your body is producing normal levels of CoQ10, or ubiquitin, or NAD+, or whatever the fuck it is, and the excess you supplement with goes to waste.

Most "exotic" nutrients like choline, vitamins, coenzymes, NAD+/FAD+, etc are abundant in a healthy diet as well as being produced in the body. There is simply no need for supplementation unless you are very ill (systemic infections) or genetically impossible of making/disposing of them (and this usually results in death because your cells don't produce energy).

The reasons these nutrients are "advertised and popular" is the same reason those stupid Q-ray bracelets or penis enlargement pills work. Lots of people are too proud to admit they spent money on a placebo. Confirmation bias and all that. Moreover people use the lack of "bad" evidence as proof that it *must* be working (If it didn't work, why is it still sold?). The reason is simply because the FTC/FDA hasn't stepped in and said "stop it". Most of these supplements are marketed as supplements, meaning they don't have to show a positive effect. Same department as homeopathy.


If you have CFS you should see a doctor. Don't treat yourself with "cures" based off a single double blind study.
 
I'm of the opinion chronic fatigue isn't a "real" condition, not to say that there aren't individuals who develop low baseline energy, but much like ADHD its so poorly defined and has so many possible causes that its almost worthless to try to discuss scientifically. But, maybe I'm wrong and some amazing study comes out in the next 3-4 years. However, in the meantime there really isn't much to even discuss right now aside from a massive number of poorly done retracted studies.

CFS and depression threads belong on M&M, not bluelight ADD.
 
sekio, can you explain this to me in more simple words since im not biochemical specialist.

"a chemical compound having an effect on sirtuins, a group of enzymes that use NAD+ to remove acetyl groups from proteins."

was reading certain compounds that are sirtuins active and it mentions this exact part as mechanism if i repaste again "... a group of enzymes that use NAD+ to remove acetyl groups from proteins". can you please put it in more understanding way, what does that even mean to remove acetyl groups from proteins tnx to NAD ??? this is supposely positive, antioxidant effect that occurs and it is preventive of diseases but i do not understand this mechanism at all.

source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butein
 
what does that even mean to remove acetyl groups from proteins tnx to NAD ???

It means that sirtuins are enzymes that remove acetate groups (acetic acid molecules) from protiens that have them attached to certain amino acids (lysine in particular). NAD is required as a cofactor, and the acetyl group is transferred there.

DOqRQ.png


I'm sorry, I'm not going to conduct a cellular biology class here. NAD+ is a cofactor in many, many enzymatic reactions, it's produced in vivo, and that's all you need to worry about.

It looks like you are simply fishing for life extention chemicals without having any idea what their mechanisms are, and you shouldn't be doing that. Go get some excercise and eat some fresh fruit and veg.

However, in the meantime there really isn't much to even discuss right now aside from a massive number of poorly done retracted studies.

Please come back and re-open a new thread when you find some actual studies and evidence to back up your "discovery".

I strongly suggest reading Molecular Biology of the Cell for more info.
 
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