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N-Methyl (4-MTA)

Reminisant B

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There are of course serious potential problems with 4-MTA (it being a MAOI etc).

Just out of curiosity though does anyone know if the N-methyl analogue was ever explored? (Which would be the equivalent of what PMMA is to PMA)

4-MTA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-MTA
 
Probably a bit less dangerous and maybe already gets you in the ballpark.Some MAO inhibition is not that bad.


Stimulus effects of three sulfur-containing psychoactive agents. Khorana, Nantaka; Pullagurla, Manik R.; Dukat, Malgorzata; Young, Richard; Glennon, Richard A. Department of Medicinal Chemistry, School of Pharmacy, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA, USA. Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior (2004), 78(4), 821-826. Publisher: Elsevier Inc., CODEN: PBBHAU ISSN: 0091-3057. Journal written in English. CAN 141:236361 AN 2004:645380 CAPLUS

Abstract

Two agents gaining popularity on the illicit drug market are the phenylalkylamines 4-MTA and 2C-T-7 [or 1-(4-methylthiophenyl)-2-aminopropane and 2-(2,5-dimethoxy-4-n-propylthiophenyl)-1-aminoethane, resp.]. At this time, there exists a paucity of information on the behavioral actions of these sulfur-contg. agents. The present investigation examd. these agents, and the N-monomethyl analog of 4-MTA (i.e., 4-MTMA), in tests of stimulus generalization (substitution) using a two-lever drug discrimination task with groups of rats trained to discriminate either the hallucinogen DOM [1-(2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylphenyl)-2-aminopropane], the stimulant cocaine, or the empathogen MDMA from vehicle. 4-MTA and its N-monomethyl analog 4-MTMA (ED50=0.8 mg/kg in both cases) substituted only for the MDMA stimulus, whereas 2C-T-7 (ED50=0.8 mg/kg) substituted only for the DOM stimulus. Thus, at the doses examd., 4-MTA and 4-MTMA appear to be MDMA-like agents, and 2C-T-7 seems best classified as a DOM-like hallucinogen. These results provide addnl. data that extend the structure-activity relationships of phenylalkylamines and that are consistent with what little is currently known about the action of 4-MTA and 2C-T-7 in humans.

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Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitory Properties of Optical Isomers and N-substituted Derivatives of 4-methylthioamphetamine. Hurtado-Guzman, Claudio; Fierro, Angelica; Iturriaga-Vasquez, Patricio; Sepulveda-Boza, Silvia; Cassels, Bruce K.; Reyes-Parada, Miguel. Chem. Dep., Faculty Sciences, Univ. Chile, Chile. Journal of Enzyme Inhibition and Medicinal Chemistry (2003), 18(4), 339-347. Publisher: Taylor & Francis Ltd., CODEN: JEIMAZ ISSN: 1475-6366. Journal written in English. CAN 140:22633 AN 2003:531472 CAPLUS

Abstract

()-4-Methylthioamphetamine (MTA) was resolved into its enantiomers, and a series of N-alkyl derivs. of the parent compd., as well as its .alpha.-Et analog, were prepd. The monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitory properties of these substances were evaluated in vitro, using a crude rat brain mitochondrial suspension as the source of enzyme. All compds. produced a selective, reversible and concn.-related inhibition of MAO-A. (+)-MTA proved to be the most potent inhibitor studied, while all the other derivs. were less active than the parent compd., with (-)-MTA being about 18 times less potent than the (+) isomer. The anal. of structure-activity relationships indicates that the introduction of alkyl substituents on the amino group of MTA leads to a redn. in the potency of the derivs. as MAO-A inhibitors, an effect which increases with the size of the substituent.

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Effect of PMA optical isomers and 4-MTA in PMMA-trained rats. Dukat, Malgorzata; Young, Richard; Glennon, Richard A. School of Pharmacy, Department of Medicinal Chemistry, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA, USA. Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior (2002), 72(1-2), 299-305. Publisher: Elsevier Science Inc., CODEN: PBBHAU ISSN: 0091-3057. Journal written in English. CAN 139:46859 AN 2002:211680 CAPLUS

Abstract

1-(4-Methoxyphenyl)-2-aminopropane (PMA) and its sulfur analog, 1-(4-methylthiophenyl)-2-aminopropane (4-MTA), have been misrepresented as the controlled substance analog, N-methyl-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-aminopropane (MDMA; "Ecstasy"). Because MDMA has been shown to produce both amphetamine-like and N-methyl-1-(4-methoxyphenyl)-2-aminopropane (PMMA)-like stimulus effects in rats, we examd. S(+)PMA, R(-)PMA and 4-MTA in rats trained to discriminate either PMMA (1.25 mg/kg) or (+)amphetamine (1.0 mg/kg) from saline vehicle. The sulfur analog of PMMA (i.e., 4-MTMA) was also examd. The PMMA stimulus generalized to R(-)PMA (ED50=0.4 mg/kg), whereas S(+)PMA produced a max. of 72% PMMA-appropriate responding. 4-MTA (ED50=0.3 mg/kg) also substituted for PMMA, but 4-MTMA produced a max. of only 36% PMMA-appropriate responding. None of the four agents substituted for (+)amphetamine. Hence, like MDMA, R(-)PMA and 4-MTA are capable of producing PMMA stimulus effects in rats, but unlike MDMA, neither agent substituted for (+)amphetamine.
 
All I know is that a friend dumped 20Kg into a canal. Someone owed him bigtime, and rather that hurt the guy, he just took the guys stash of MDMA powder (Fritzy knows who I mean) which turned out to be MTA, so, not wishing to kill anyone, he dumped it and took the guys mercades. Se, even some pill makers have moral standards.
 
Well the thought occured that beta ketones have had the effect of making things less strong (or potent in some chemicals) so was wondering about bk-N-methyl-4-MTA.

^Still if the methyl variant hasn't been tested (a lot) and the beta ketone probably never made sounds a potential risk.
 
haribo1 said:
All I know is that a friend dumped 20Kg into a canal. Someone owed him bigtime, and rather that hurt the guy, he just took the guys stash of MDMA powder (Fritzy knows who I mean) which turned out to be MTA, so, not wishing to kill anyone, he dumped it and took the guys mercades. Se, even some pill makers have moral standards.

pity the poor fish.
one should not dispose of unwanted chemicals in canals..
 
I read in the MDMA production article on microgram bulletin that it happens all too often in Holland, especially with precursors. Its too bad they can't seem to make drugs and have moral scruples :D
 
In terms of MAO inhibition:

(-)-MTA being about 18 times less potent than the (+) isomer.

(-) is the active R isomer right? So the more potent isomer is the less potent MAO inhibitor?

Its too bad they can't seem to make drugs and have moral scruples

Even if they wanted to, they could hardly go to a proper waste disposal facility to dispose of the stuff! Priority must be to get rid of it discretely.
 
Yeah i know, i was only having a joke, perhaps slowly introducing the chemicals to their toilets would be the best bet. Look at the messes they make (about a quarter way down the page), hardly discrete...

hxxp://www.usdoj.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0403/mg0403.html

Off topic, sorry.
 
Anything with a sulphur atom para to the ethylamine side chain, especially if there is no other substituent or an adjacent oxygen atom on the aromatic ring all seem to be potent competetive inhibitors of MAO-A to some degree. I'm pretty certain it's because sulphur is in the same column of the periodic table as oxygen (actually just below it), meaning that because of it's similar electronic structure, it'll replace oxygen & be functional in some cases, yet in others it only allows a partial replacement. In the case of MAO-A, it'll fit into the active site, but will not facilitate the conformational change in the enzymes structure to allow it to catalyse a chemical process.


So the more potent isomer is the less potent MAO inhibitor?

Even so, there's still far too much inhibitory activity for me to even consider putting it in my body. In terms of competetive inhibitors, I'd only be happy with at least two orders of magnitude change in inhibitory activity (pref 3 orders of magnitude so nM becomes uM etc)
 
vecktor said:
pity the poor fish.
one should not dispose of unwanted chemicals in canals..

This was a canal leading to the Souder see in The Netherlands, so 20Kg in 3 trillion l of water is PRETTY watered down. Better than making pills, for sure...
 
Mta

4-methylthio Amphetamine? Wouldn't that compound have a stench to it, most organic sulfides do. NOt good for concealing it. Also in-vivo, organic sulfides are rapidly oxidized first to the sulfoxide , then to the sulfone.
Another point about chiral carbon atoms. Absolute stereochemistry (R and S designations) is different than the designations that isomers are given by using a polarimeter (- and + designations). One cannot be sure that just because a molecule rotates polarized light to the left (-) or to the right (+), that its absolute stereochemistry (following the Cahn-Ingold -Prelog rules) that is, it's (R,S designation) is always correct in a series of analogs. What i'm saying is just because crystallographic studies determine that you have the +R compound, in the amphetamine series , if you manage to get isomer resolution, you can't bet that the positive or "right twist of polarized light" from the simple polarimeter analog results mean that you definitely have the R absolute configuration.
 
dorothyperkins said:
Even if they wanted to, they could hardly go to a proper waste disposal facility to dispose of the stuff! Priority must be to get rid of it discretely.

why not burn it surely even morons can make fire???
 
vecktor said:
why not burn it surely even morons can make fire???

Chemicals will not burn like wood. (especially 20kg!)

At most they will oxidize in to another chemical(s) which will be present in the residue of wherever it is being burnt (or then disposed of) or give off vapours in to the atmosphere. !?
 
Reminisant B said:
Chemicals will not burn like wood.

At most they will oxidize in to another chemical(s) which will be present in the residue of wherever it is being burnt (or then disposed of) or give off vapours in to the atmosphere. !?


PEA's are flammable, provided the fire is hot enough they will burn away to nothing. how do you think the police dispose of them?
 
Some of Shulgins finest inventions are sulfur containing PEA's (e.g. 2ct-7).

Although Alexander Shulgin did alot to successfully catalog and bring into mainstream awareness alot of gems, he did not actually invent a good deal of the most popular chems in PIHKAL (e.g. MDXX, and 2c-b etc).

I can understand that making p-MTA into pills to pass off as xtc is misleading the customer and may be dangerous due to the fact that mixing E's is fairly common place, which would lead to (unintentional?) cocktails of substances to be released into the bloodstream of the user. It is certainly alot more hazardous than mixing drinks in a bar.

I think that p-MTA is an OK drug though, even though it might have certain risks attached to it that should not be overlooked or neglected. The wholesale price of heliotropin is actually ridiculously low, about £1000/MT. Piperonyl is strongly regulated though and efforts have been made to keep these type of chemicals from becoming readily available.
 
vecktor said:
PEA's are flammable, provided the fire is hot enough they will burn away to nothing. how do you think the police dispose of them?

Sure but it would need to be in a sealed furnace of some sort [?] Even then your still going to convert them in to break down products. Trying to burn 20kg of a PEA doesn't sound a very practical idea for people who are already trying to conseal things. [you would hardly want 4-MTA vapours being given off anywhere near people]

Although I agree the dumping in river idea equally doesn't sound very wise.

didn't shulgin use a hole in the ground?
 
Smyth said:
I think that p-MTA is an OK drug though, even though it might have certain risks attached to it that should not be overlooked or neglected. The wholesale price of heliotropin is actually ridiculously low, about £1000/MT. Piperonyl is strongly regulated though and efforts have been made to keep these type of chemicals from becoming readily available.

heliotropin= piperonal ???

4MTA killed far to many people when is was out there in the late '90's. Its happy people to kill ratio was at least 1000x less than MDMA's.
its a convenient way of inducing serotonin syndrome in one handy molecule.
there is no reason for it to resurface as it is now illegal it wasn't in the mid 1990's which is why the dutch made and sold it.

haribo1 said:
I did one in Amsterdam. They were bloody strong. Couldn't imagine doing them in a club with more than 3 people.

Ha, I did it at the wholesalers house! Someone I know bought 20Kg of it cheap and guess who was the lab-rat? I said 'not so good' he asked 'good enough to sell to the UK people?' to which I said (while twatted) 'errmm... I GUESS so'. So, jesus, those hanger 13 people might be down to me! Fuck... the deathtoll is building up! Someone shoot me!
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-299023.html
 
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Reminisant B said:
Chemicals will not burn like wood. (especially 20kg!)

At most they will oxidize in to another chemical(s) which will be present in the residue of wherever it is being burnt (or then disposed of) or give off vapours in to the atmosphere. !?

If you can get all the stuff for drug synthesis, then it's not that difficult to obtain a decent oxidizing agent like 30% hydrogen peroxide. It'll oxidize 4-MTA to something like para-sulphonylbenzoic acid - much less toxic!
 
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