N. Korea Launches Missile Into Sea of Japan, long range Taepodong fails in flight

[banga]

Hmmm with the way u've described it frankly sounds like both countries to varying extents.

one has choice.....the other doesn't.

 

[TiT0]

one has choice.....the other doesn't.

i'm referring to the government dude..
Plus the choices provided is what the government chooses to allow, not the civillian, unfortunately.

 

[GeorgeJung]

I heard he is gathering up all triplets born in the country and throwing them in orphanages, because somehow they are a symbol of his son (future president) losing power, or some whacky shit.

source?

 

[kittyinthedark]

No, what’s absurd is suggesting that the best thing we could do would be to plunge into a war that would-undoubtedly-cost thousands-to hundreds of thousands-of lives. A war, which would not only pose the real risk of a military response from China but would also destablize the world even further, all for the sake of some remote possibility of something happening at sometime, is what's insane.

Has N Korea actually threatened to attack any nation unprovoked? No. Do they even have the bomb? No. Do we know if they are really even close to being able to develop the bomb? No. For all we really know, their nuclear weapons program might be 20 years away from producing a weapon. Has N Korea attacked any other country since the end of the Korean War? No. Plus (as previously mentioned) do they have a reliable delivery system? Not really.

Now even if they developed these weapons the bombs would be very few, very small and very primitive by standards. Jong might be crazy, but he still realizes what the consequences of his actions would be, and while he might not care about the welfare of his people I’m sure he cares a great deal about his own life and grip on power. I doubt he wants to die anymore then anyone else. Does anyone really believe that did the N Koreans actually develop a couple of small primitive nukes and managed to place them on some of their unreliable missiles that-for no reason at all-they’d just decide launch them at somebody one day for absolutely no reason? Just like the Soviets were going to do? It's not out of the question, but it is highly unlikely.

Jong and his crazy father have existed in their little bubble for the last 50 years, rattling their sabers from time to time, but that’s all it’s ever been, why would they suddenly and unexplainably change that now? Is there any solid evidence to show that it has changed? No, there isn’t. The best thing to do, is what we’ve been doing for the last 50 years, just sit back and don’t threaten him, ignore him, eventually he’ll die or be assassinated.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like the idea of N Korea possessing the bomb either, and as far as I’m concerned, the less countries that possess nuclear weapons the better. But, considering all the variables and “what ifs” in this particular situation I certainly don’t believe that the “rewards” of any military action would outweigh the risks.

Um, that was a nice post and all, but where did I ever suggest attacking North Korea in mine? All I meant by "erring on the side of caution" was to assume that they did have nukes and were willing to launch. There are plenty of diplomatic approaches to be taken before starting a war....

*don't* put words in my mouth. It pisses me off to no end. The closest thing to a war I have ever suggested in this situation is a multilateral humanitarian intervention with an eventual coup.

 

[dr seuss]

my favourite Kim Jong Il story was from that japanese filmaker who was kidnapped and forced to make movies for the regime before absconding on a promotional tour to paris or something.

he said that during one of the big parades - with all the synchronised marching, relentlessly over-sycophantic dedications of undying love for the Great Leader, and advanced cult of the individual - Kim turned to him, laughing, and said 'Don't you see? None of this is real... it doesn't mean anything'.

isn't that just amazing... i mean, to think of a sentient old-skool totalitarian dictator? someone who rules this entire empire of national praise and is fully aware that it's completely falsified?

but anyway - i don't think NK is about to wage war on anyone soon. most indicative about this whole situation so far = china's silence.

 

[JerryBlunted]

Yers, but that is too late once you hve already nuked iran. But, regardless of what you think every rational American may think, do you really believe ratinality plays a part in international relations?

who the fuck said anything about nuking iran? you're the one saying we shouldn't just assume that because someone has nukes they'll use them, aren't you?

Well, you are a retrd then. Nobody wants NK to have nukes but it is lun acy to think the ay to achieve thwt is by threatening them.

i'm a retard? because i think nuclear weapons in the hands of a mentally unbalanced dictator is a bad situation? blow me, dude.

 

[Diacetylus]

source?

Ok, before I post this source, I never claimed that it was factual or true... remember I said, "I heard", let me emphasize that! Ohh, actually, I didn't hear it, I read it... sorry...

Kim is grooming one of his sons, Kim Jong Chul, to take over the family business. He will have quite a legacy to live up to.

But this plan may all go to shit. For some reason, Kim Jong Il believes he will be replaced by a triplet, and none of his children were triplets. So, like King Herod before him, Kim is covering his bets. He has ordered all triplets born in North Korea be rounded up and raised in state orphanages, where the government can keep an especially close eye on them. We are not making this up. According to a March 2003 story in the Herald Sun:

Yes... I know that rotten.com isn't exactly what you'd call the most reliable of sources, but I never said that and apparantly they got this information from The Sun (which again... is a pretty crap source).

Go on, make fun of me.

 

[Zero the hero]

Um, that was a nice post and all, but where did I ever suggest attacking North Korea in mine? All I meant by "erring on the side of caution" was to assume that they did have nukes and were willing to launch. There are plenty of diplomatic approaches to be taken before starting a war....

*don't* put words in my mouth. It pisses me off to no end. The closest thing to a war I have ever suggested in this situation is a multilateral humanitarian intervention with an eventual coup.

Easy tiger! I never intended to "put words" in your mouth Kitty, it's just that you've previously spoken of military intervention in N Korea so when you mentioned "erring on the side of caution" in your post I simply assumed that you were referring to military intervention again. I think that was a fair enough assumption considering you felt the need to clarify that statement yourself.

 

[kittyinthedark]

You may not have intended, but you did. I come from a family of debaters all with postgrad education. I'm a fuckin stickler, what can I say... :D

All I know is that if Iraq is enough of a threat, and Iran is enough of a threat, NK must be too, so someone better fucking do something about it.

 

[Tha Mortician]

No, what’s absurd is suggesting that the best thing we could do would be to plunge into a war that would-undoubtedly-cost thousands-to hundreds of thousands-of lives. A war, which would not only pose the real risk of a military response from China but would also destablize the world even further, all for the sake of some remote possibility of something happening at sometime, is what's insane.

Has N Korea actually threatened to attack any nation unprovoked? No. Do they even have the bomb? No. Do we know if they are really even close to being able to develop the bomb? No. For all we really know, their nuclear weapons program might be 20 years away from producing a weapon. Has N Korea attacked any other country since the end of the Korean War? No. Plus (as previously mentioned) do they have a reliable delivery system? Not really.

Now even if they developed these weapons the bombs would be very few, very small and very primitive by standards. Jong might be crazy, but he still realizes what the consequences of his actions would be, and while he might not care about the welfare of his people I’m sure he cares a great deal about his own life and grip on power. I doubt he wants to die anymore then anyone else. Does anyone really believe that did the N Koreans actually develop a couple of small primitive nukes and managed to place them on some of their unreliable missiles that-for no reason at all-they’d just decide launch them at somebody one day for absolutely no reason? Just like the Soviets were going to do? It's not out of the question, but it is highly unlikely.

Jong and his crazy father have existed in their little bubble for the last 50 years, rattling their sabers from time to time, but that’s all it’s ever been, why would they suddenly and unexplainably change that now? Is there any solid evidence to show that it has changed? No, there isn’t. The best thing to do, is what we’ve been doing for the last 50 years, just sit back and don’t threaten him, ignore him, eventually he’ll die or be assassinated.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like the idea of N Korea possessing the bomb either, and as far as I’m concerned, the less countries that possess nuclear weapons the better. But, considering all the variables and “what ifs” in this particular situation I certainly don’t believe that the “rewards” of any military action would outweigh the risks.

wow! I actually agree with Zero...
nice article man...

 

[pIeCE]

I just watched the Bush interview on TV and he said that, "We had a plan in place".

bwahahaha What, dig a hole and pray? I think he needs to perfect our defense systems beefore he continues to spew bullshit like that. We got heat seeking, we got homing but they ARE NOT very accurate!

He has a plan for terrorists on the border and he has a plan to shoot nukes out of the sky. He's fucking superman I tell ya. Place all faith in him!

He has a hard enough time shooting planes out of the sky beefore they reach their intended targets let alone an ICBM.

I love my country but he needs to check himself on the lies. Plenty of people believe him tho I'm sure.

Its about time we run a few tests of our own, dontcha think?

 

[JerryBlunted]

I just watched the Bush interview on TV and he said that, "We had a plan in place".

bwahahaha What, dig a hole and pray? I think he needs to perfect our defense systems beefore he continues to spew bullshit like that. We got heat seeking, we got homing but they ARE NOT very accurate!

well, according to some an american missile defense shield is more of a threat than a shitty pieced together north korean intercontinental ballistic missile.

 

[Infernal]

Wow, showing your knowledge of missle defense there piece. Our long range missle defense system is rather limited. However, numerous war planes outfitted as interceptors with short range AIM-9X missles makes for a very flexible and effective missle defense system. Couple that with an incredible array of spy satelites, not to mention our AEGIS missle system onboard FFGs. The problem with those is of course, they only have a limited time to acquire and shootdown said missle.

 

[Zero the hero]

However, numerous war planes outfitted as interceptors with short range AIM-9X missles makes for a very flexible and effective missle defense system.

No, it doesn't...

 

[pIeCE]

Our defense system is SHITE! Sure I won't bee the frist to tell ya.

well, according to some an american missile defense shield is more of a threat than a shitty pieced together north korean intercontinental ballistic missile.

With this I totally agree, *for now* N. Korea is proven to bee a non-issue. Next year, or a couple yrs from now. Who knows? Whatever glitch they need to correct, can't possibly bee that far off from fixing now can it?

We don't run public defense displays of this nature because we too would prove our technology to bee a non-issue as well. Just because N. Korea had to embarrass themselves does not necessarily mean we need to. lol

Perfecting a functional and RELIABLE defense system should bee top priority right now and it isn't. Maybee they assume that some madman with an ace up his sleeve will NEVER call our bluff? That is quite a gamble (IMHO) Gambling with their lives is one thing, gambling with my life is another.

 

[Infernal]

No, it doesn't...

Really? And what background in aeronautics and missle defense do you have?

 

[CutHere]

 

[Zero the hero]

Really? And what background in aeronautics and missle defense do you have?

Huh? I hardly have to have a "background in aeronautics and missle [sic] defense" to know that missile defense is FAR from being anywhere close to perfect -especially against long range ICBM’s which I believe at this time is non-existent-all I need to be able to do this is to know how to read. Don't believe the hype dude, you remember how well we were all told the "Patriot" system performed during GWI, don't you? How much of a lie did that turn out to be in the end?

 

[Infernal]

^^^How about you 'don't believe the hype?' I have ten years in aeronautics experience from the air warfare and the air traffic control aspects. True, ICBM defense is far from perfect but it is also far from flawed. While there is an estimated 15-20% fail according to some DoD officials that leaves 80-85% rate of effectiveness. The problem becomes is how many missiles are we facing?

 

[Zero the hero]

^^^How about you 'don't believe the hype?'

What "hype" would that be? Again, the very same "hype" seen with the shitty performance of the "Patriot" missile system during GWI perhaps? Is this the same department (DoD) that lied about the effectiveness of the that system in the first place? You think that after that (and many other things) I'm just going to swallow whatever the US military tells me to be true? Not likely. Proof is in the pudding, and so far-in my most humble opinion-your pudding look like it could use a few more cups full of proof before it's done.

I found this article interesting, and-if the facts are indeed correct-they’re hardly a glowing demonstration of the effectiveness of the US's missile defense system.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/na...,6972470.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

The fact is, there's heaps of a ways to go before this system is truly efficient and effective, especially in regards to long-range MIRV equipped ICBM's(correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know there's NO defense for these as of yet at all). Funny, because those are the ones you need to be worried about most of all.

BTW, I liked the way you were practically begging me to reply with something along the lines of "yeah, well where's your degree in aeronautics and missile defense", hoping that you'd get to reply with something like "I have ten years in aeronautics experience from the air warfare and the air traffic control aspects? You notice how I didn't though? Regardless, you still managed to find a way to get it out there anyway. Cool...