is it just my addiction telling me that ppl in n.a. are judgine me or does anyone else ever feel like that too ? i have been goin to n.a. for a long time now even when im not clean . i thought all u need is a "desire to stop using" to attend but it seems like if you tell anyone there about suboxone or methadone , or that u cant seem to get clean , they tell u they are still there to help you but when you tell them that you honestly that you want to get clean but cant after they hear it a lot of times from you , they seem to make you (or me at least) feel unwelcomed and guilty . i dont know if this is just my own guilt, if they are right (i do agree methadone is "legal dope" but i dont think i should be looked down on because im sure there are ppl it has helped get their life back ) So my sponser last night gives me all this crap about why am i not sharing since all homegroup members shared, so i said to him , "why should i share , just to say i cant stay clean" ? it seems to me like they all forget how hard it is being dopesick once they get a few years clean
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N.A. meetings and judgmental people
- Thread starter jake99
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villian
Bluelighter
A lot of people in NA are judgmental and definitely say you can not be clean while on maintenance drugs.
Not everyone is like that but it is common.
You can always try going to different meetings though, different groups have different feels to them.
If you are in a particular group who has known you for awhile and they are beginning to get frustrated you are still using, this is just human nature really. Hearing someone talk about how they want to quit using for a year but they keep on using anyway will make them question your dedication to being clean.
If you don't feel comfortable at a group I suggesting finding another one. Since you are right around the dope capital I assume groups are a dime a dozen.
Not everyone is like that but it is common.
You can always try going to different meetings though, different groups have different feels to them.
If you are in a particular group who has known you for awhile and they are beginning to get frustrated you are still using, this is just human nature really. Hearing someone talk about how they want to quit using for a year but they keep on using anyway will make them question your dedication to being clean.
If you don't feel comfortable at a group I suggesting finding another one. Since you are right around the dope capital I assume groups are a dime a dozen.
imaimabadbitch
Bluelighter
i know exactly what you mean and i agree with you.its a real bitch trying to find anyone that wont judge you, besides the people you get high with...somehow i did quit the heroin,with the help of suboxone and havent done it in a month...i know its not a hella long time but im still proud that i quit one drug,esp H bc i did it for a long time and my habit got really bad.even though im not "clean and sober",i still feel good about staying off that shit.idk,its just really shitty how people can be.maybe if you just stick with it and think with an i dont care what they think attitude,you'll be able to climb that mountain...
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
It aint "just your addiction telling you" this.
NA members tend to use that as their one size fits all response to anything negative you might notice about the program.
You got a problem with the program? Thats just your addiction telling you that NA is bad to give you an excuse to stop coming so that it can make you get high again. You feel that they are judging you? thats just your addiction trying to trick you into not going to meetings , so that it can take over and force you to become addicted again. You read a research paper that presents scientific evidence that completely contradicts the 12-step ideas, and scientifically proves without a doubt that their methods are ineffective? thats just your addiction making you question the program becuz it dont want you to get clean.
And so on. They just apply that to everything, so that you can never have a "legitimate" complaint against them.
dont believe the hype, yo.
Some people cant get clean with the program. Some can, but some cant. If NA does not help you, it dont mean that "you just aint working the program correctly." It means that NA dont help you. Methadone aint "legal dope", its an incredible drug that is STILL THE MOST EFFECTIVE ADDICTION TREATMENT available in the us! After all these years, after suboxone, after the 12 steps and all these other forms of rehab and therapy--Methadone STILL has the highest success rate of treating addicts and preventing them from relapsing! The fact that NA is against maintenance is just another part of their closed minded program, and its just one more way to alienate people who would otherwise give it a shot.
Dont let these people judge you and make you feel bad yo.
See they will TELL you that "its just your addiction." To them, EVERYTHING is just your addiction. Any thought you have, that dont comply with the way they want you to think, is "your addiction trying to trick you."
I used this example in another thread the other day about the way NA claims that they always KNOW better than you do. how anytime you say something against the shit they believe, even if you KNOW it from your personal experience and its absolutely true, they will always dismiss it with their "its only your addiction...." mantra.
Imagine a guy who gets wrongly locked up in a psychiatric hospital. he is totally sane, and keeps telling everybody "yo, get me outta here! I aint crazy! Im sane, I dont belong here!"
But the people who locked him up , they go to his doctors and all the staff and they tell them, "OK guys, listen. Theres this guy here, we just brought him in. Hes fucking nutz. He may SEEM sane, he may TALK reasonably, he might TELL you that he aint crazy, but he is. So NO MATTER WAT HE TELLS YOU, he IS crazy. Dont listen to anything he says, becuz hes gonna try to convince you that hes sane and to let him out. But he aint. hes totally out of his mind, so even tho he might appear to be reasonable, rational, and sane, DONT let him fool you!"
So, even tho this guy IS sane, and he KNOWS he is sane, he is stuck there. He tells his doctors ' Seriously yall, no , really. Im fucking sane guys. I aint crazy. It was a mistake for them to lock me up here. I know they told you im crazy, but you gotta believe me. Im totally reasonable, rational, logical, my head is all in one piece, guys please, you gotta let me out, i dont belong here, this is a mistake!"
But they will just say 'Yeaa....Ok, thats right. Suuuure you aint crazy. Time for your meds. run along now." and give him a patronizing smile and dismiss everything he says.
Thats how NA uses their "its only your addiction tricking you" line to disarm anybody who tries to expose the bullshit.
when you tell them that you are a HERION addict, NOT an alcoholic, and that your whole life you have ALWAYS been able to drink alcohol with no problems, have never abused it, that you drink moderately occasionally, and that it never makes you want to use heroin and it has never sent you back into using, They just tell you "thats just your addiction telling you that you can drink and fooling you into thinking you are in control. Addiction is addiction, and ANY and ALL drug use will always lead you back to the same place, addiction!"
When you tell them that you got clean without NA, they just tell you "thats just your addiction making you think you are safe. Your addiction WANTS you to think that you are clean and let your guard down so it can sneak back into your life again. Without the program, nobody stays clean for long. you aint a recovered addict--You just aint actively using. But you are the same addict underneath. Without doing the steps, you are still the same person, and you WILL use again until you work the steps."
Any fuckin thing you tell them, thats always the answer. The answer is always the steps. the answer is always to keep going to meetings. The answer is always the program, no matter wat the question is. They use that circular logic to make people believe that the only people who would tell you that the 12 steps dont work, or say anything negative about the program, are people who dont want you to succeed and stay clean. Any thought you have that questions their ideas, is just your addiction tryna trick you. Any free thinking, anytime you question their program, anytime you see it contradict itself, anytime you think for yourself and dont just blindly follow their teachings, it could never possibly be that you have a legitimate, intelligent thought of your own, that comes from a positive place---No, it must be your evil addiction tryina lead you astray!
I would definately look for another group to attend if the people at this meeting are makin you feel that way. I have to go to NA to comply with the terms of my probation and it sucks but I go. I tried out LOTS of different meetings, and i have found a couple ones with cool people who aint all judgemental like that. I might disagree with their entire purpose and hate the program, but I dont mind sittin there for a hour once a week talking to people who are kind, thoughtful, non judgemental, and genuinely caring and want to help. I aint gotta play along with their steps bullshit, but i can appreciate the people for who they are. So your best bet, if you want to keep trying, is to find a home group that is made up of better people. People who are kind , who dont judge you, who aint interested in promoting the program but just want to help people on a human, person to person level. Folks who will be compassionate and listen to your struggles, and when you say you havin trouble, they will empathize with you and tell you about a time that they were struggling and how they got thru it, instead of saying "Well, if you aint having success, you must be doing it wrong."
It sounds like the folks at your home group is really a bunch of closed minded judgemental muh fuckas, and you dont need that. There IS NA meetings out there with good people who dont try and judge you like that, and even tho the official position of NA is against maintenance meds like methadone and sub, i have also met lots of people out there at meetings who say "Hey--thats between you and your doctor. If its helpin you live a better life, if in your heart you truly feel that you are clean, then fuck anything that anybody got to say about it." Thats very different than the shit ive experienced at other meetiings, so you gotta look around til you find one with good people who will make you feel more welcome. The meetings are all about the people. I hate the program and the steps, but a meeting with good people, can actually make it bearable to listen to that crap for an hour. A meeting with bad people will make me want to strangle every one of them screaming "GOD DAMN, DONT YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID THIS PROGRAM IS!??!?" So it really, really depends on the meetin you go to and the people there. Good luck finding a good one, keep lookin til you find one where you feel welcomed, not judged, and people are open to you and make you feel like you belong there and dont ever try to put you down or call you out or act better than you. A meeting with people like that is one that will never be able to help you, so dont waste your time subjecting yourself to that crap no longer than you need to.
NA members tend to use that as their one size fits all response to anything negative you might notice about the program.
You got a problem with the program? Thats just your addiction telling you that NA is bad to give you an excuse to stop coming so that it can make you get high again. You feel that they are judging you? thats just your addiction trying to trick you into not going to meetings , so that it can take over and force you to become addicted again. You read a research paper that presents scientific evidence that completely contradicts the 12-step ideas, and scientifically proves without a doubt that their methods are ineffective? thats just your addiction making you question the program becuz it dont want you to get clean.
And so on. They just apply that to everything, so that you can never have a "legitimate" complaint against them.
dont believe the hype, yo.
Some people cant get clean with the program. Some can, but some cant. If NA does not help you, it dont mean that "you just aint working the program correctly." It means that NA dont help you. Methadone aint "legal dope", its an incredible drug that is STILL THE MOST EFFECTIVE ADDICTION TREATMENT available in the us! After all these years, after suboxone, after the 12 steps and all these other forms of rehab and therapy--Methadone STILL has the highest success rate of treating addicts and preventing them from relapsing! The fact that NA is against maintenance is just another part of their closed minded program, and its just one more way to alienate people who would otherwise give it a shot.
Dont let these people judge you and make you feel bad yo.
See they will TELL you that "its just your addiction." To them, EVERYTHING is just your addiction. Any thought you have, that dont comply with the way they want you to think, is "your addiction trying to trick you."
I used this example in another thread the other day about the way NA claims that they always KNOW better than you do. how anytime you say something against the shit they believe, even if you KNOW it from your personal experience and its absolutely true, they will always dismiss it with their "its only your addiction...." mantra.
Imagine a guy who gets wrongly locked up in a psychiatric hospital. he is totally sane, and keeps telling everybody "yo, get me outta here! I aint crazy! Im sane, I dont belong here!"
But the people who locked him up , they go to his doctors and all the staff and they tell them, "OK guys, listen. Theres this guy here, we just brought him in. Hes fucking nutz. He may SEEM sane, he may TALK reasonably, he might TELL you that he aint crazy, but he is. So NO MATTER WAT HE TELLS YOU, he IS crazy. Dont listen to anything he says, becuz hes gonna try to convince you that hes sane and to let him out. But he aint. hes totally out of his mind, so even tho he might appear to be reasonable, rational, and sane, DONT let him fool you!"
So, even tho this guy IS sane, and he KNOWS he is sane, he is stuck there. He tells his doctors ' Seriously yall, no , really. Im fucking sane guys. I aint crazy. It was a mistake for them to lock me up here. I know they told you im crazy, but you gotta believe me. Im totally reasonable, rational, logical, my head is all in one piece, guys please, you gotta let me out, i dont belong here, this is a mistake!"
But they will just say 'Yeaa....Ok, thats right. Suuuure you aint crazy. Time for your meds. run along now." and give him a patronizing smile and dismiss everything he says.
Thats how NA uses their "its only your addiction tricking you" line to disarm anybody who tries to expose the bullshit.
when you tell them that you are a HERION addict, NOT an alcoholic, and that your whole life you have ALWAYS been able to drink alcohol with no problems, have never abused it, that you drink moderately occasionally, and that it never makes you want to use heroin and it has never sent you back into using, They just tell you "thats just your addiction telling you that you can drink and fooling you into thinking you are in control. Addiction is addiction, and ANY and ALL drug use will always lead you back to the same place, addiction!"
When you tell them that you got clean without NA, they just tell you "thats just your addiction making you think you are safe. Your addiction WANTS you to think that you are clean and let your guard down so it can sneak back into your life again. Without the program, nobody stays clean for long. you aint a recovered addict--You just aint actively using. But you are the same addict underneath. Without doing the steps, you are still the same person, and you WILL use again until you work the steps."
Any fuckin thing you tell them, thats always the answer. The answer is always the steps. the answer is always to keep going to meetings. The answer is always the program, no matter wat the question is. They use that circular logic to make people believe that the only people who would tell you that the 12 steps dont work, or say anything negative about the program, are people who dont want you to succeed and stay clean. Any thought you have that questions their ideas, is just your addiction tryna trick you. Any free thinking, anytime you question their program, anytime you see it contradict itself, anytime you think for yourself and dont just blindly follow their teachings, it could never possibly be that you have a legitimate, intelligent thought of your own, that comes from a positive place---No, it must be your evil addiction tryina lead you astray!
I would definately look for another group to attend if the people at this meeting are makin you feel that way. I have to go to NA to comply with the terms of my probation and it sucks but I go. I tried out LOTS of different meetings, and i have found a couple ones with cool people who aint all judgemental like that. I might disagree with their entire purpose and hate the program, but I dont mind sittin there for a hour once a week talking to people who are kind, thoughtful, non judgemental, and genuinely caring and want to help. I aint gotta play along with their steps bullshit, but i can appreciate the people for who they are. So your best bet, if you want to keep trying, is to find a home group that is made up of better people. People who are kind , who dont judge you, who aint interested in promoting the program but just want to help people on a human, person to person level. Folks who will be compassionate and listen to your struggles, and when you say you havin trouble, they will empathize with you and tell you about a time that they were struggling and how they got thru it, instead of saying "Well, if you aint having success, you must be doing it wrong."
It sounds like the folks at your home group is really a bunch of closed minded judgemental muh fuckas, and you dont need that. There IS NA meetings out there with good people who dont try and judge you like that, and even tho the official position of NA is against maintenance meds like methadone and sub, i have also met lots of people out there at meetings who say "Hey--thats between you and your doctor. If its helpin you live a better life, if in your heart you truly feel that you are clean, then fuck anything that anybody got to say about it." Thats very different than the shit ive experienced at other meetiings, so you gotta look around til you find one with good people who will make you feel more welcome. The meetings are all about the people. I hate the program and the steps, but a meeting with good people, can actually make it bearable to listen to that crap for an hour. A meeting with bad people will make me want to strangle every one of them screaming "GOD DAMN, DONT YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID THIS PROGRAM IS!??!?" So it really, really depends on the meetin you go to and the people there. Good luck finding a good one, keep lookin til you find one where you feel welcomed, not judged, and people are open to you and make you feel like you belong there and dont ever try to put you down or call you out or act better than you. A meeting with people like that is one that will never be able to help you, so dont waste your time subjecting yourself to that crap no longer than you need to.
OverDone
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 5,404
yeah, this is common (in my experience). We all judge others in some way or another and for me its a survival mechanism. The ones who are judging you for using are the ones to stay at arms length with. Experienced members working an honest program understand that recovery is a process. This process takes many forms.
Some folks only apply portions of the program to their lives (this may be part of their process). They 'forget' that the newcomer IS the MOST important person. Many are afraid of the newcomer because folks that are new unknowingly make us work a more rigorous program (us addicts tend to not want to work especially when it involves the concept of change) Many just don't want to do ANY work.
You don't have to dance with everyone in the program but in time you will notice a few folks that do remember what its like (even after significant periods of clean time under their belts). These are the ones you want to hang with.
The rooms are filled with many flawed people. Some project guilt on others because they think they are helping but others do it simply to feel better about themselves.
There are many like you describe in my area and I don't fuck with them. I have experienced the exact same feelings you are writing about and at times it has given me feelings of rage, insecurity, and feelings of being unwelcome. What I did was rise above the nonsense. Shit, we get clean for ourselves. We didn't know any of these people before we got here so we have a right to pick and choose who the good ones are. Hang back and watch folks, don't just listen to their words (we're experts at sounding good). Strike up conversations with those who are secure in themselves and their recovery and be honest when ya talk.
Those other ones... shit... we can learn from them and (for me) it teaches me how I DON'T want to be and propels me to make a stronger effort to be there for someone newer than me (maintenance drugs or no maintenance drugs)
Your process is YOUR process. It sounds like you are making an effort. It isn't anyone's place to measure the extent of your effort or to put timeframes on where you should be in your recovery. They don't have enough information to place expectations on your growth
Some folks only apply portions of the program to their lives (this may be part of their process). They 'forget' that the newcomer IS the MOST important person. Many are afraid of the newcomer because folks that are new unknowingly make us work a more rigorous program (us addicts tend to not want to work especially when it involves the concept of change) Many just don't want to do ANY work.
You don't have to dance with everyone in the program but in time you will notice a few folks that do remember what its like (even after significant periods of clean time under their belts). These are the ones you want to hang with.
The rooms are filled with many flawed people. Some project guilt on others because they think they are helping but others do it simply to feel better about themselves.
There are many like you describe in my area and I don't fuck with them. I have experienced the exact same feelings you are writing about and at times it has given me feelings of rage, insecurity, and feelings of being unwelcome. What I did was rise above the nonsense. Shit, we get clean for ourselves. We didn't know any of these people before we got here so we have a right to pick and choose who the good ones are. Hang back and watch folks, don't just listen to their words (we're experts at sounding good). Strike up conversations with those who are secure in themselves and their recovery and be honest when ya talk.
Those other ones... shit... we can learn from them and (for me) it teaches me how I DON'T want to be and propels me to make a stronger effort to be there for someone newer than me (maintenance drugs or no maintenance drugs)
Your process is YOUR process. It sounds like you are making an effort. It isn't anyone's place to measure the extent of your effort or to put timeframes on where you should be in your recovery. They don't have enough information to place expectations on your growth
nowitson
Bluelighter
I have struggled with the same thing as Jake. Many times it pushed me away from the program and gave me the perfect excuse for me to relapse. This all sounds like good advice, I think I need to start finding different meetings meself.
Lacey i love readin when u talk about n.a. You keep it so real ................Its funny how my sponser was the door greeter for his whole first year at the meetings and he smoked crack that whole time now he is judging me for being on methadone .guess he forgot he was on it for years and didnt get clean til he was 40 something , now he shows up to meetings for the last ten minutes and 13th steps (picks up new girls who just are getting clean( then brags to me how he has Viagra for them ) lol
villian
Bluelighter
this times one million.
Get a new sponser for sure. If he is judging you for being on methadone then he is not helping you at all. Methadone is just a long acting opioid that works well for some people on holding off cravings thus they can give up other opioids like heroin, morphine, etc. It's a matienance treatment and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Anyone who says it is just legal dope 8) are ignorant twats who think the only way to go is completely drug free. They can't understand that one size does not fit all.
As for judgmental people at NA meetings I dont really notice it happening to much. Everybody that goes to meetings are usually somewhat sick and probably slightly twisted but that is what keeps me coming back I suppose. I had a few ppl confront me in a AA meeting a month or so back. I mentioned I had been drinking on the weekends and I dont really see it as a problem. Than they jumped on me asking me if I even wanted to be there, and on and on. I said I am just mainly an addict and prefer AA meetings. Some ppl in AA I notice are much more judgmental, whatever floats there boat I suppose.
As for being on 'meds' [methadone included] there are ALOT of people in the NA meetings that I go to that are on a slew of drugs. The first year I was going I was still struggling to get off subs and nobody ever had a problem with it. Sometimes I would be paranoid because my eyes were always pinned that someone would think I was on heroin or some shit. I just always told the truth about where I was in my recovery, pills or no pills and how I was dealing with it. I personally wish more people would talk about there struggles with pills in meetings, they do but not really, you know?
Sometimes people talk about something and its just totally vague and I dont have a clue about what they are talking about. Sometimes I want to scream, wtf are you talking about, arghh!!! I suppose the same could be said for me though. I do admit freely that I still drink and puff reefer on occasion sometimes I think it might piss off some people but I really dont care.
Funny story -
A this one NA meeting I go to is located in a nice treatment center and they put out some holiday flower decorations outside in their big concrete planters. I was talking to some kid after the meeting and he just reaches in and grabs a nice big poppy pod out of the arrangement. I took a closer look and sure enough there were like 20 pods per concrete planter. lol funny. I had an image in my head of kids stuck in treatment there stealing all the pods and crushing them in the bathroom and using hot faucet water to make tea. Strange.
peace.
seedless
As for being on 'meds' [methadone included] there are ALOT of people in the NA meetings that I go to that are on a slew of drugs. The first year I was going I was still struggling to get off subs and nobody ever had a problem with it. Sometimes I would be paranoid because my eyes were always pinned that someone would think I was on heroin or some shit. I just always told the truth about where I was in my recovery, pills or no pills and how I was dealing with it. I personally wish more people would talk about there struggles with pills in meetings, they do but not really, you know?
Sometimes people talk about something and its just totally vague and I dont have a clue about what they are talking about. Sometimes I want to scream, wtf are you talking about, arghh!!! I suppose the same could be said for me though. I do admit freely that I still drink and puff reefer on occasion sometimes I think it might piss off some people but I really dont care.
Funny story -
A this one NA meeting I go to is located in a nice treatment center and they put out some holiday flower decorations outside in their big concrete planters. I was talking to some kid after the meeting and he just reaches in and grabs a nice big poppy pod out of the arrangement. I took a closer look and sure enough there were like 20 pods per concrete planter. lol funny. I had an image in my head of kids stuck in treatment there stealing all the pods and crushing them in the bathroom and using hot faucet water to make tea. Strange.
peace.
seedless
User Name Here
Bluelight Crew
Try some different groups. NA should be a place in which you feel safe and not feel judged. You shouldn't have to worry about something like that while trying to recover.
calmAnimal
Bluelighter
to the op: i've seen you post alot on TDS and im sorry that i never read any of your stuff. by the time i saw your threads they were already multiple pages long and i didn't have the time to read.
honestly, there ppl that are judging you. its what everyone does. especially i it probably seems over-whelming and makes you just want to leave. its very difficult and frustrating. i feel your pain man. it sucks. you know that some of these ppl want to help you but they don't know how. try talking to an experienced memeber after the meeting and be honest w/ how your feeling.
i was wondering why do you keep relapsing? do you get that thought in your head and just can't fight the urge? does something happen to you and you think getting high will solve it? are you hanging out w/ ppl that are using? i know what its like. when i was first getting clean, they told me that once the thought of using starts to creep into your head, CALL some one you trust from the program. have you been doing this? it will help just to hear from someone who wants to help you.
also something that helps me is "playing the tape out". that means think through what will happen. ie; you go and pick up (maybe get caught), get high feel great etc., then what? you come down and still feel shitty. you didnt get anything new from that experience. you know what was going to happen and how you'd still be left craving more when it was gone.
like others have been saying, you HAVE to find meetings and a sponsor that you are COMPLETELY comfortable with. it let you open up. you should feel that you have the best sponsor.
lacey k: you crack me up. it seems your just as closed minded about meetings as these ppl are about sub/meth.
how do you not let someone judge? you got me there. i mean that just doesnt make sense. you cant control what any one does or think. what can do is not let it affect you.
do you realize the disease of addiction is IN your thinking? and that when you do drugs for awhile, your thinking is very fucked up? let alone how it was to begin with.
and for your analogy about the person admitted to a psychiatric hospital that says he is " totally reasonable, rational, logical, my head is all in one piece, guys please, you gotta let me out, i dont belong here, this is a mistake!" usual you wouldn't be in there if this was true. you gotta get caught doing some pretty crazy shit to get locked up in one of those. and if it was a mistake and then a sane person would go about it differently, ie. calmly explaining to them what happened and being sane. not screaming and begging w/ the staff.
the first thing in NA is stop using drugs. once your able to do that, then its time to start the steps so that you can change your old attitudes and behaviors. its simple bro. i hope you get cuz i've heard of atleast 4 ppl die in the past couple weeks due to OD. i hope you can get through this and move on w/ your life.
honestly, there ppl that are judging you. its what everyone does. especially i it probably seems over-whelming and makes you just want to leave. its very difficult and frustrating. i feel your pain man. it sucks. you know that some of these ppl want to help you but they don't know how. try talking to an experienced memeber after the meeting and be honest w/ how your feeling.
i was wondering why do you keep relapsing? do you get that thought in your head and just can't fight the urge? does something happen to you and you think getting high will solve it? are you hanging out w/ ppl that are using? i know what its like. when i was first getting clean, they told me that once the thought of using starts to creep into your head, CALL some one you trust from the program. have you been doing this? it will help just to hear from someone who wants to help you.
also something that helps me is "playing the tape out". that means think through what will happen. ie; you go and pick up (maybe get caught), get high feel great etc., then what? you come down and still feel shitty. you didnt get anything new from that experience. you know what was going to happen and how you'd still be left craving more when it was gone.
like others have been saying, you HAVE to find meetings and a sponsor that you are COMPLETELY comfortable with. it let you open up. you should feel that you have the best sponsor.
lacey k: you crack me up. it seems your just as closed minded about meetings as these ppl are about sub/meth.
how do you not let someone judge? you got me there. i mean that just doesnt make sense. you cant control what any one does or think. what can do is not let it affect you.
do you realize the disease of addiction is IN your thinking? and that when you do drugs for awhile, your thinking is very fucked up? let alone how it was to begin with.
and for your analogy about the person admitted to a psychiatric hospital that says he is " totally reasonable, rational, logical, my head is all in one piece, guys please, you gotta let me out, i dont belong here, this is a mistake!" usual you wouldn't be in there if this was true. you gotta get caught doing some pretty crazy shit to get locked up in one of those. and if it was a mistake and then a sane person would go about it differently, ie. calmly explaining to them what happened and being sane. not screaming and begging w/ the staff.
the first thing in NA is stop using drugs. once your able to do that, then its time to start the steps so that you can change your old attitudes and behaviors. its simple bro. i hope you get cuz i've heard of atleast 4 ppl die in the past couple weeks due to OD. i hope you can get through this and move on w/ your life.
Legerity
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2010
- Messages
- 2,965
People in NA may judge you, but so will other people, this is what everybody does.
If you think that methadone is helping you, then you need to remain firm and do what is best for you. NA has a general set of guidelines which will be the same for each person trying to get clean, there's not much room for debate. So if you want to do things your way, then you may have to do so without support of other members.
Which personally I think is a good thing. I stopped going to meetings, but I have a lot of respect for people who are able to continue going and still stay true to their own beliefs despite getting shit from other people. That's the only way there will ever be any open discussion on important issues that are often glossed over.
So do what works for you man. Find people that support you and accept you, don't put up with bullshit.
If you think that methadone is helping you, then you need to remain firm and do what is best for you. NA has a general set of guidelines which will be the same for each person trying to get clean, there's not much room for debate. So if you want to do things your way, then you may have to do so without support of other members.
Which personally I think is a good thing. I stopped going to meetings, but I have a lot of respect for people who are able to continue going and still stay true to their own beliefs despite getting shit from other people. That's the only way there will ever be any open discussion on important issues that are often glossed over.
So do what works for you man. Find people that support you and accept you, don't put up with bullshit.
mymindisgoo
Bluelighter
i read in one of the pamphlets "na has no opinion on" using drugs as prescribed. it's not that na is against you, it's just the people get it out of context.
lazywhitefox
Greenlighter
You haven't told your doctor you're a drug addict???? I'm starting to wonder if you even want to get clean. If not, it's fine, but don't blame the program if you're not willing to do the smallest things.
OverDone
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 5,404
Just so there is no misinformation, below is the NA stance on Maintenance programs. To be clear, I am NOT in agreement with this. I have never been on suboxone/methadone and feel that they ARE valid options for improving an individuals standard of living (if not abused). I'm only posting this so that accurate info is given regardless of what I personally believe.
NSFW:
hey guys thanks for replies. im going to maybe switch up meetings or at least not go to them with ppl who are still using. thats one reason they get on me. my boy brian is always using before he goes to meetings and sometimes i give him rides............anyway i gotta run to my fams house for the holiday but when i get home im gonna read all these replies and get back to u all on them. have a good thanksgiving..............
Are you talking to me? I dont use drugs. I been clean for over a year now. I just didnt do the steps to get there. IDK if you were still talkin to me or to jake there. Anyways....
Yes addiction is part of your thinking. (Dont get me started on the "disease" shit, I aint even goin there.) But the point is just becuz it is part of how your brain operates, it dont mean that EVERY SINGLE THING that you think is tainted by it. You can have legitimate concerns or issues with NA without it meaning that "your addiction is trying to trick you."
Also,
The analogy about the psych. patient is a analogy yo. you are completely missing the point of it. The idea aint whether or not he would really be in there. Its like the shit went totaly over your head, the point is that in NA, the "its just your addiction" response is a way to completely dismiss and invalidate everything a person is saying, even if it is true. In the same way that a sane person who happened to get wrongly committed, would be insisting they are sane, but the staff will just dismiss them and be like "yea ok, you crazy." Thats the same attitude they got towards people in NA who got a problem or issue with their program. they just dismiss and discredit the shit you saying by tellin you its your 'addiction' making you say that, trying to make you relapse by making you question NA. It couldnt possibly be that you have a legitimate concern or question, and that there is actually a flaw in their program, that would be impossible, so it must just be your addiction making you talk crazy. When somebody says that, when they dismiss anything you got to say no matter how legitimate it is, and treat you like a dumb child who dont even know wat they talking about, they are really telling you that they want total obedience, they want to have total authority. Thats the idea behind treating anybody with a concern or issue with the program as somebody who is just talking garbage and dont know wat they are even doin. They are basically just tellin you that that person is crazy, dont listen to them, its their addiction talking, a person who is really about their recovery would never question us.
In all the meetings I been in, the overwhelming expereince has been that any questioning is bad and means your addiction is just "making" you question--in their eyes there is no way you could possibly have a legitimate issue with the program, becuz "THE PROGRAM WORKS!" So anybody who says "hey, wats the deal with this, I dont agree, this totally contradicts this other thing that the book says", they just tell you "Dont question! Any questioning is just your addiction trying to trick you into quitting the program becuz it wants you to relapse!" Its like the people who questioned the church back in the middle ages. They told them that anybody who questioned gods word was a heretic and the devil was inside them, becuz any good christian would not question the bible or the teachings of the priests, etc. If a person had an issue with the teachings of the church, they must be possessed by the devil , becuz no sane, good christian would even think to question it, they would just go along with it and listen to it and have faith that the shit they bein told is right. In the program, its just that even if you dont understand something, just listen to it, just follow it, just go along with it, just trust that its in your best interest, just have faith that its the right thing to do , and do it even if you dont understand why or disagree with it, becuz the program is right and the program works.
That attitude is some shit I cant get with. Any program, any group, anything that discourages questioning, that discourages thinking for yourself and using critical thinking to examine the beliefs and teachings that it puts out, I dont trust. If they shut down anybody who questions them by just telling them "Its your addiction making you question , not your intelligence that happened to notice that this shit dont make sense" then they aint exactly being honest.
If any of the times that i questioned the program, and brought up the issues I had with it, and asked for explanations, people had answered those questions, welcomed them as an opportunity to share the shit that they really believe, I would have a different point of view. But all the times i ever raised my hand and asked things that didnt make sense to me, said, 'why is this like this, when you say something completely different somewhere else in the book? How can this be, when ______", and so on....All i was ever met with was the same old shit...."As addicts, our addiction is tricky and powerful, and we always gotta be on guard. As soon as it sees us get involved in something that might kill it or disable it, it goes crazy trying to lead us astray. Having all these questions and problems with the program is your addictions way of trying to lead you away from recovery with NA. Just keep working the steps and have faith and you will begin to understand."
That aint a fuckin answer. thats the answer that I hear applied to everything, and its a fuckin cop-out.
Not only that, but you know wat? you aint always got the same brain. Your brain grows and changes. When you recover and stop using, your brain aint the same brain it was. Just how drugs re-wire the pathways in your brain causin you to be physically changed, causing you lots of issues--The same shit happens in reverse once you quit. The "normal" brain slowly recovers and gets rebuilt. You dont keep the same fucked up drug-shaped brain forever after you be addicted to somethin. Your brain heals and becomes more like the brain it was before you ever used drugs after you stop. Physically, it changes, and mentally as well.
i aint got the same mentality, the same thought patterns, the same mindset, the same NOTHING as i had when I was addicted. I aint GOT the addict brain no more. For me, addiction AINT a disease, it aint permanent, and its something that I am recovered from. My addiction AINT in my brain, tryna trick me and fool me no more--That part of my life is over with. I think different, i act different, I live different, i AM different, in every way, than i was back then. My mind aint even on the same wavelength, it aint even in the same solar system as it was when I was a dopehead. So , when I say this that or the third, questioning the disease model or the steps or wtfever, it aint "my addiction fooling me", becuz my addiction dont even live here no more. From all that i seen in meetings, they dont even allow for that option to be possible.
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