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  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Mysterious stimulant in Slim Xtreme dietary supplement

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GC trace

for those who are skilled in reading these graphs, here is the GC graph, that was just sent to me:

scan000111.jpg
 
vecktor said:
^ the substance was identified from a posted Mass spectrum. that mass spectrum shows the molecule contains the diphenyl methyl group also known as the benzhydryl group there is no doubt about that. diagnostic ions are M/z 70 for substituted pyrroles C4H8N+ and 165 for diphenyl methane C13H9+

so if the mass spectrum posted here was obtained from GC-MS of a genuine sample, then Slim xtreme contains either 2-(diphenylmethyl) pyrrolidine or 3-diphenylmethyl pyrollidine.

case closed. no further debate required.

I am slightly concerned that the mass spectrum is no longer visible :-(
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Thank you for your diligence in this.

As for us that are unfamiliar with these compounds, can you tell us if either of these would be scheduled or be able to speculate on safety and/or toxicity?
 
Oooohkay, so the GC indicates something with a higher melting point/boiling point than caffeine, assuming it's caffeine anhydrous whose MP is 228°C. The retention time is about 7% greater than caffeine, so if you're scaling linearly (not really great science) that puts our compound at around 245°C for the melting point, which is slightly lower than that of the hydrochloric salt of desoxypipradrol (2-(diphenylmethyl)piperidine; ~250°C). So mostly guessing here from the trace vecktor is correct and the compound is 2-(diphenylmethyl)pyrollidine, and from the AUC it's in comparatively larger amounts to caffeine. I'm guessing it's not nearly as potent as desoxypipradrol.

I don't know much about GC though so you more experienced chemists can rag on me if I'm off base. :P
 
seep said:
I bet AX's sales are skyrocketing due to BL's thread. I think they owe otto a good amount of commission.
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The scope of this thread was to gain insight about a supposed designer stimulant substance, and not to draw attention to companies or products.

After repeated request, per PM and in public I posted the name of the product, but deleted my post a few minutes later in order to avoid either drama or advertising.

Moderators can certainly confirm that all visible mentions of the product name in this thread - including the thread title - have not been written by me.

It would be cool if the discussion in this thread would return to where it started: discussing the chemistry of an unknown substance and making qualified and educated assumptions on its structure and function.

I am grateful to all who have provided essential contributions, especially vecktor and nuke.
 
otto said:
The scope of this thread was to gain insight about a supposed designer stimulant substance, and not to draw attention to companies or products...After repeated request, per PM and in public I posted the name of the product, but deleted my post a few minutes later in order to avoid either drama or advertising...Moderators can certainly confirm that all visible mentions of the product name in this thread - including the thread title - have not been written by me...It would be cool if the discussion in this thread would return to where it started: discussing the chemistry of an unknown substance and making qualified and educated assumptions on its structure and function.
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I never accused you of shilling. I think this is a fascinating thread. The product's identity was obvious from the beginning, but it's funny that it didn't become a hot topic at its primary promotional site until Ingredient X was so deftly identified in this thread. I mean even PA posted a link to Vecktor's posts.

You don't seriously think that ethics, money and politics are irrelevant here, do you?
 
seep said:
I never accused you of shilling. I think this is a fascinating thread. The product's identity was obvious from the beginning, but it's funny that it didn't become a hot topic at its primary promotional site until Ingredient X was so deftly identified in this thread. I mean even PA posted a link to Vecktor's posts.

You don't seriously think that ethics, money and politics are irrelevant here, do you?
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I was very pleasently surprised to have found people here who appear to be not only kind and helpful but also extremely knoweldgable.
Because of that and because of being unfamiliar with this board and its board politics and rules, i might very well be a bit overcautious and trying to avoid anything that could be interpreted as stirring up drama or shilling.

But I have to agree with you. This issue is certainly closely linked to ethics (or lack thereof) and financial interests.
When you quickly search databases like Pubmed/medline you will find many published work on adulterated dietary supplements from around the entire world.

Inventing novel substances or re-inventing old substances for novel uses can be a good thing. But it needs to follow certain ethical standards, otherwise there is lot of potential for damage and harm.
 
bad news said:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolic-xtreme/135556-whatd-you-sell.html#post2131618

the makers say that you have it all wrong here
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From that thread:

Now that our patent app is about to go live and become public information, and because this ingredient is brand new, we hired one of the best chemists to write an accurate name for the new compound and we are now listing it as such.
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We formulated it, but we had to hire "one of the best chemists" to tell us what the fuck it is.
 
If this is in fact the product in the formula,

What they seem to mostly mean by "having it all wrong" is that they completely bypassed the FDA's drug approval process, in favour of doling out a synthetic drug with what seems to be no animal or human toxicology assessment and no jurisprudence as to the drug scheduling system.

Which will get this drug pushed into schedule I, after which the analogue law will be applicable and all these stimulants will be banned.
 
It doesn't even need to get pushed into schedule I. Can't the FDA, IRS, and USPS send this bitch away like they did the owners of the company pushing Enzyte without involvement from the DEA or federal scheduling?
 
^^ Oh no. This is a compound that potentially has an effect as a central nervous system system. It could be dopaminergic--leading to things such as enjoyment (saying nothing of its potential physiological dangers, which are completely unknown, but there's always a possibility for something completely untested)--hence, the DEA must be involved. Enzyte just tricked stupid people into paying for dried, ground weeds that fail to give them a boner. Scamming people on the corporate level is petty misdemeanor in this country; the Enzyte people get a nice letter, a whole lot of warning time, a firm but polite suggestion to 'cut that out.' A dopaminergic, however, that's a felony, a big one.
 
The posts on that anabolic forum are getting progressively more insane.
 
Riemann Zeta said:
The Enzyte people get a nice letter, a whole lot of warning time, a firm but polite suggestion to 'cut that out.' A dopaminergic, however, that's a felony, a big one.
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Uh, no. The Enzyte CEO is now serving more than 20 years in federal prison for fraud, conspiracy, and tax evasion charges or something like that. The entire case was based on making unapproved medical claims, brought forward by the FDA. The conspiracy/etc. charges were probably because the entire enterprise was criminal as it sold only unapproved medication.
 
well given the structural similarity to Desoxypipradrol i caved and got got a box, needless to say im keeping it on ice until more information comes out.

could someone please post an image with the molecules diagrams for desoxypipradrol, diphenyl-2-pyrrolidinyl-methanol, 2-diphenylmethyl pyrrolidine and 3-diphenylmethyl pyrollidine for comparison?
 
hamhurricane said:
well given the structural similarity to Desoxypipradrol i caved and got got a box, needless to say im keeping it on ice until more information comes out.

could someone please post an image with the molecules diagrams for desoxypipradrol, diphenyl-2-pyrrolidinyl-methanol, 2-diphenylmethyl pyrrolidine and 3-diphenylmethyl pyrollidine for comparison?
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come on, how lazy do you get??
do you expect spoon feeding?
get chemdraw or similar and type in the structure names. or spend 10 minutes with google.
 
this thread has run its course and is now acting as an advertisement.
the thread is now closed

PM me if you have pertinent (read on topic) information to add.

Vecktor
 
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