my unborn niece or nephew is dead... in shock

Maybe she didn't want the baby? If so, problem solved.
It's sickening to me that if it hadn't have been ruled accidental she could have faced charges.
 
Sorry to hear this, it must be very tough for you. Did she go to court? If not, they can definitely re-open the case. However it is not that common for people to get convicted for harming themselves, even if they are pregnant and lose the fetus (although in many places it is illegal). Is she getting any mental help?

Some great posts in this thread btw.
 
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I know she didn't want the baby but how is this act justified? I mean I wouldn't have cared if she had gotten an abortion but shooting yourself in the stomach and killing a baby that old is really messed up. She could have at least given the child up for adoption at that point but she had to murder the kid (who I found out was a boy). I am pro-choice but how this situation was handled was very wrong. For her to cause my brother to lose the kids because she wanted things done her way is also wrong. Now they have to fight to get the kids back and it just scares me to know she will be around my nieces.... What if she has another episode? I mean I've tried to like her but she has done nothing but cause me to not want to be involved with her. I don't want to end up seeing her on dateline because she drowned or shot all her children. I know it sounds like a joke and I wish it was but I honestly could see her doing such things.

^that was for Libby.

And swimmingdancer I do believe she needs mental help and she does see a therapist but they say there is nothing they can do but talk to her. Meaning drugs won't help her because it's mainly PTSD for what? I don't know and she will be getting medical marijuana probably to help with that.... I don't even know what the hell is up with that because she needs much more than that. I know there really isn't anything that can be done about this but it just makes me worried for the other children.. Child protective services believes that the kids should be taken away at least for now but I know they will get them back soon.... It just scares me.

I think she went to court.. I have to ask my sister but she is snoring away. We just don't know much about this whole situation because they have been secretive/private about it and if they do say anything it's "their" version of the story.
 
I'm assuming she only shot herself in the stomach because she did not have access to an abortion and would have gotten an abortion if she had the option, hense complaining about her stomach hurting. Fuck I bet it fucking hurt! Say's something about how much it meant to her to terminate the pregnancy don't you think?
I'm not denying the situation could have been handled better, but hindsight is a cocky bitch of a slut, I'm sure she handled everything to the best of her ability. And at the end of the day, whether or not you believe a late term foetus to hold any rights, as long as it is INSIDE of a person who holds rights, parasiting off of her body, then the decision whether or not to terminate a pregnancy at ANY stage for ANY reason logically must lie with the primary right holder.
 
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Libby: I may not agree with what you have to say but I can see where you're coming from but I won't ever justify what she has done. I know we have our own rights because it is our body but she did have the chance to get an abortion. She had the money and it's not as if she ever once thought she wanted the child. She hesitated and it was too late by law for her to get an abortion. It's not as if she couldn't have gotten one but no she has to just take too long in completing what has already been decided awhile ago. So she shoots herself which is so unfair. She did it in the house when the kids were there. She did it when my brother was home and he was so excited to have another child but she still shot herself. It's funny how he still sticks by her side though and she still felt the need to do this to him.

It just baffles me because it's not as if she didn't want a baby ever. She has four kids (one is my brothers and he adopted another who doesn't have a father and is pretty much the father to the two other kids). During each pregnancy and after she had always been an happy mother but this time I know they were going through a hard time already with that many kids so I'm pretty sure she worried a lot about having a fifth child. They could have handled it but it would of been even harder but she just chose to shoot herself. The kid was already so far along so why not just wait it out and give it up for adoption?

It's just so hard to feel any sympathy for her because it's so sick to see how she shows no remorse and acts like what she did never happened.

Swimmingdancer: My brother was so happy to have another baby on the way and I know this probably caused him a lot of pain... He has never expressed his feelings about it to us though but I know my brother and I know that he is strongly against abortion. He wanted the child and I think he makes himself believe that this was an accident. He has stuck by herself the whole way and is still there for her. All I can say is I hope she gets help too but I wish there was something more that can be done because she is the type of person to believe nothing is truly wrong with her or it's not as bad as other's think/say.
 
I do wonder, why she didn't organise for a termination when she found out she was pregnant?

Looks like the reason you have concluded she must just be crazy is because it validates the feelings you already felt towards her having never gotten along, but there's a massive piece of the storey missing here.
 
I know she does have problems and I didn't just think this because I don't like her. We did get along but things happened. One moment she liked me and the next she hated me. Why? I don't know. I treated her the same way as before but she did write a long letter one day only to leave it on the table talking about how she hated the fact that my brother would always love his sisters unconditionally. Then it was odd how she ended up causing my relationship with my brother to be broken. He misses me and yes I have missed him but she just doesn't allow for things to be mended. It's weird since I was always super close with my brother.

I also have been nice to her as of lately but it doesn't mean I don't still think all these things about her. I just want to know why she is this way? I don't judge her because I want to make her seem like a bad person but what I have said about her is what even her loved one's have noticed. This isn't a one sided view. A lot isn't missing either besides the fact on why she did it and what led up to her feeling this way which leads back many, many years even before she had kids or even knew my brother.

She can only help herself but she needs to put others before herself sometimes or at least think before she reacts. She allows her feelings to cause her to reaction without thinking... I do hope she does get help and I mean I do have forgive and forget tatted on me. I have it because I do need to remember I should not hold grudges but it doesn't mean I don't. I do want to mend things but it can't always be done.
 
You may be right,
but have you ever asked her why she didn't organise for a termination when she found out she was pregnant?
Maybe she was being pressured or threatened into keeping the child by your brother or someone else, who knows what was happening.
If it's caused you to be this upset then I would ask her, I would want to know.
 
I want to confront her but I'm afraid about how she will react. I have been acting more mellow about everything and I'm just afraid that my brother will resent me for asking her about it. It's a very touchy issue... and I don't know if I much rather not know and just wonder about it or actually go forward with asking her about it. I'm just afraid things will just get heated and I may never see my nieces. So it's like what do I do? And I do kind of think my brother may have pressured her in not getting the abortion but I still wish she could have found another way of dealing with this. I know she must have been not in the right frame of mind when she did this but it's still hard for me to not feel upset/angry about this even though I know she probably did it without thinking and that she needs help.
 
Well, it doesn't have to be a confrontation you know, and the fact that she's acting like nothing even happened, detached if you will in a way will work in your favour here.
Don't come at her with an accusatory tone or whatever,just say to her,
look such and such, I know we havn't always seen eye to eye, but I am concerned about something,
would you mind if we can maybe go somewhere private and have a little chat? *insert reassuring hand on shoulder here*
sit down next to her for a second, look her in the eyes, and then take hold of her closest hand and hold it firmly.
Say, I understand that, before the accident, you may not have been entirely thrilled with the pregnancy to begin with, and I have to ask
if there was anything, any reason preventing you from making the arrangements that would have been best for you?

Maybe throw in: we're family, and you can talk to me, at the end there if you're worried she'll jump on the defensive,
Whatever you say, you want her to percieve you approaching the issue with her, not you approaching her and opposing her with the issue.

Then you'll know if she was just a bit fragile dealing with depression, and being pressured into continuing a pregnancy she didn't actually want but never managed to work up the courage or self assurance to stand up for herself, then when the time was so close to actually having the baby she was forced to finally assert the problem and wasn't left with many option. Or... if her thought patterns aren't running coherently and she is acting without thinking lacking compassion for other people involved, etc and like you say is crazy and a possible danger to your neices and nephews. Or... something else entirely.
 
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Well, it doesn't have to be a confrontation you know, and the fact that she's acting like nothing even happened, detached if you will in a way will work in your favour here.
Don't come at her with an accusatory tone or whatever,just say to her,
look such and such, I know we havn't always seen eye to eye, but I am concerned about something,
would you mind if we can maybe go somewhere private and have a little chat? *insert reassuring hand on shoulder here*
sit down next to her for a second, look her in the eyes, and then take hold of her closest hand and hold it firmly.
Say, I understand that, before the accident, you may not have been entirely thrilled with the pregnancy to begin with, and I have to ask
if there was anything, any reason preventing you from making the arrangements that would have been best for you?

Maybe throw in: we're family, and you can talk to me, at the end there if you're worried she'll jump on the defensive,
Whatever you say, you want her to percieve you approaching the issue with her, not you approaching her and opposing her with the issue.

Then you'll know if she was just a bit fragile dealing with depression, and being pressured into continuing a pregnancy she didn't actually want but never managed to work up the courage or self assurance to stand up for herself, then when the time was so close to actually having the baby she was forced to finally assert the problem and wasn't left with many option. Or... if her thought patterns aren't running coherently and she is acting without thinking lacking compassion for other people involved, etc and like you say is crazy and a possible danger to your neices and nephews. Or... something else entirely.
I wish I could do what you said above. I know I should and I have to or I'll let this eat away at me... I know I shouldn't confront her in a I know what you did and you were wrong for doing it kind of way; maybe another word would have been better. I just want to have a conversation to understand and maybe not resent her as much as I have/do... If only I could manage a way to make myself do this though :/
 
Well, if you have true concerns for your nieces and nephews safety, or if you actually want to help her I think you should, because even if she has to do counselling sessions if you're right that the court incorrectly ruled accidental then she will have a story to stick to and wont get the chance to deal with the real issues in counselling.
To me it really does seem unlikely she's crazy or a threat to her children though, I reckon your brother probably pressured her, but hey you are there and I'm here, I havn't even met her so you do what you think
 
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I do have true concern but I feel as if I even talk to her that nothing will change. I will only hear what she wants me to know and nothing more. I just don't think she would feel comfortable enough to talk to me about it. It's not as if we're close and we barely know each other which is pretty bad. I will figure out something though. Just have to think about things and yes I truly do care about their safety but right now my mind is more at ease knowing they're not home.
 
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