Hello ALL. This is my first post. Wow I can remember coming on here 4 years ago when I was trying to taper off of OXY's. I forgot about this site somehow until I was reminded on another forum the other day by NSA. So I started taking opiates in 2005 at 19. i use to mess around with them at parties here and there. Mostly Lortabs and Percocets. Around the end of 2007 I started eating them more and more. Maybe about twice or three times every week. In 2008 I was introduced to Oxycontin and the idea of snorting them. I fell in love. From 2009 to the beginning of 2011. I was motivated in life by only oxycontin or large amounts or lortabs or percocets. I was 24 at the time. At the end of 2010 I told my parents because I could not quit and I wanted to get off of them. I hated them now. They controlled my life and I never wanted to do them again. Well I could not stop so they sent me to an outpatient rehab. I was in rehab for about 6 weeks. Well when I first got to rehab they put me on suboxone. DId not get high from them, but I would never think or crave opiates. I told myself I was done with that life and would never touch them again. In rehab they kept telling me I had a disease and I would never recover without NA/AA. I tried to go to meetings, but I could not get into it. I must have went to 30 meetings where everyone would tell me I was going to die if I did not go back. Not everyone really but a few. Well I told myself I was going to do it my own way. I stayed on the Suboxone until May 2012. I jumped off at a fairly high dose and have been drug free since. I really enjoy being drug free. Life is still hard, but it is life. But now I face a big problem everyday. You see I have an obsessive mind. I obsess over things. Now I obsess over relapse or I do not know if it is cravings or what. i just keep thinking what my guidance counselor told me at rehab that I was going to obsess and fear so much I was eventually gonna relapse.Any advice on how to cure these obsessions would be helpful besides aa/na. I read something that NSA said that I would have to find out why the need for drugs was there in the first place. Thank you all for reading my story. STay strong as I will everyone. Goodnight.
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My Story. Please Help
- Thread starter deuce85
- Start date
THECATINTHEHAT
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2005
- Messages
- 8,186
Nice to here your story, I can relate to an awful lot of it.
An obsessive mind is definitely a common theme among addicts (and one I can relate to), and in my experience can push me to some pretty uncomfortable places. I was an absolutely obsessive drug user from a young age, nothing could happen in my life without the aid of drugs. Naturally if you then take away the drugs one is likely to be left with an awful big hole that needs filling with something.
I think that for everyone there is a root cause/s of why they end up addicted to drugs. Everything we do as humans is done to gain some sort of pay off, absolutely everything. The question then becomes, what is it that was my payoff for using drugs? In the end people end up using in an addictive pattern because the drug grabs hold of them either mentally or psychologically and even though the payoff is beginning to fade into the background in comparison to the negative consequences the drug has it's hooks in and it's not as simple as just quitting or returning to the state where the consequences were worth the payoff.
I think that for successful recovery one needs to first identify what the payoff for using was, and that could be anything.....pleasurable physical feeling/blunted emotions/sharpened emotions/helped form an identity/gave confidence/cured boredom/relieved pain/a feeling of excitement.....you get the picture. If we then return to that obsessive mind you're talking about, I think the key to recovery is to use that natural tendency towards obsession to get yourself that payoff that drugs were giving you, but in a healthy and positive manner. Now, anything that takes over your life to the extent drugs have with most people who consider themselves addicts can be unhealthy, even if it appears to be positive. The difference is most of the positive activities/behaviours that one can engage in and utilise that obsessive mind to positive ends don't have the tendency to spiral out of control in the way using drugs do (although it is possible).
So the basic question becomes....how am I going to utilise that obsessive mind to give me the payoff that drugs did and fill the hole that they have left? What am I going to do in my life that fulfills that need in a positive and healthy manner, thus allowing my obsessive tendencies to be focused on something positive? This means I can engage with that character trait in a positive way rather than it being something that bothers me, and at the same time I'm filling the void in my life left by drugs. All the time it is important to be vigilant of the level to which I am engaging with this activity though, not allowing it to take over in the way drugs did.
That might make some sense to you, it might sounds like absolute bolllocks. I'm not entirely sure myself to be honest! That's where I'm at with beliefs on addiction and obsessive tendencies myyself at the moment though, I'd love to hear other peoples ideas as well because this is a massive stumbling block for many people.
An obsessive mind is definitely a common theme among addicts (and one I can relate to), and in my experience can push me to some pretty uncomfortable places. I was an absolutely obsessive drug user from a young age, nothing could happen in my life without the aid of drugs. Naturally if you then take away the drugs one is likely to be left with an awful big hole that needs filling with something.
I think that for everyone there is a root cause/s of why they end up addicted to drugs. Everything we do as humans is done to gain some sort of pay off, absolutely everything. The question then becomes, what is it that was my payoff for using drugs? In the end people end up using in an addictive pattern because the drug grabs hold of them either mentally or psychologically and even though the payoff is beginning to fade into the background in comparison to the negative consequences the drug has it's hooks in and it's not as simple as just quitting or returning to the state where the consequences were worth the payoff.
I think that for successful recovery one needs to first identify what the payoff for using was, and that could be anything.....pleasurable physical feeling/blunted emotions/sharpened emotions/helped form an identity/gave confidence/cured boredom/relieved pain/a feeling of excitement.....you get the picture. If we then return to that obsessive mind you're talking about, I think the key to recovery is to use that natural tendency towards obsession to get yourself that payoff that drugs were giving you, but in a healthy and positive manner. Now, anything that takes over your life to the extent drugs have with most people who consider themselves addicts can be unhealthy, even if it appears to be positive. The difference is most of the positive activities/behaviours that one can engage in and utilise that obsessive mind to positive ends don't have the tendency to spiral out of control in the way using drugs do (although it is possible).
So the basic question becomes....how am I going to utilise that obsessive mind to give me the payoff that drugs did and fill the hole that they have left? What am I going to do in my life that fulfills that need in a positive and healthy manner, thus allowing my obsessive tendencies to be focused on something positive? This means I can engage with that character trait in a positive way rather than it being something that bothers me, and at the same time I'm filling the void in my life left by drugs. All the time it is important to be vigilant of the level to which I am engaging with this activity though, not allowing it to take over in the way drugs did.
That might make some sense to you, it might sounds like absolute bolllocks. I'm not entirely sure myself to be honest! That's where I'm at with beliefs on addiction and obsessive tendencies myyself at the moment though, I'd love to hear other peoples ideas as well because this is a massive stumbling block for many people.
Thank you for your response. It definitely makes sense. I just wish I could now how I am going to become a happy, and not having these excessive thoughts all the time. My therapist wants me to take medication to block the OCD, but I do not really want to. She also says we will get to the root causes. I do not know. In the back of my head it keeps telling me AA/NA is the only way to become happy, but I do not really like it or agree with it.
Hey deuce and a very warm welcome to BL
I think the biggest step we can take is when we are able to go from resisting the use of a substance to no longer desiring to do it. This does not remove the addiction, but it removes so much of its power.
If you want we can try and work through this. What addiction does is promotes a fantasy of what drug use was about. When it makes us obsess and crave it sends us a highly glorified picture of what the use of the drugs we are addicted to does,.. it whispers it will make us feal amazing.. it lies. To see through the illusion or delusion we need to develop a true honest picture of what the use of these drugs actually does.
So if you are in a safe place I would suggest that you post exactly how the crave makes you think the use of the opiates will be. In order to protect others from being triggered by this all we need to do is to post a quick warning that you will be exploring this.. then we use nsfw tags.. so after a little warning please in brackets [] post nsfw before and then /nsfw in brackets after. In order for this to be a good thing to do we will need to explore this after you post this. I in no way want you to get triggered and then not be able to see through the trigger.
Then we can look at the lie honestly and see how full of shit it is. By doing this you can develop a sound strategy for shutting cravings down cold.. it takes practice but works wonders. The part of the brain we are fighting against isn't very good at problem solving so once its game is exposed it has large obstacles.
If the NSFW is confusing then By quoting this post you will see what I did.
I think the biggest step we can take is when we are able to go from resisting the use of a substance to no longer desiring to do it. This does not remove the addiction, but it removes so much of its power.
If you want we can try and work through this. What addiction does is promotes a fantasy of what drug use was about. When it makes us obsess and crave it sends us a highly glorified picture of what the use of the drugs we are addicted to does,.. it whispers it will make us feal amazing.. it lies. To see through the illusion or delusion we need to develop a true honest picture of what the use of these drugs actually does.
So if you are in a safe place I would suggest that you post exactly how the crave makes you think the use of the opiates will be. In order to protect others from being triggered by this all we need to do is to post a quick warning that you will be exploring this.. then we use nsfw tags.. so after a little warning please in brackets [] post nsfw before and then /nsfw in brackets after. In order for this to be a good thing to do we will need to explore this after you post this. I in no way want you to get triggered and then not be able to see through the trigger.
Then we can look at the lie honestly and see how full of shit it is. By doing this you can develop a sound strategy for shutting cravings down cold.. it takes practice but works wonders. The part of the brain we are fighting against isn't very good at problem solving so once its game is exposed it has large obstacles.
If the NSFW is confusing then By quoting this post you will see what I did.
NSFW:
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Sounds good.. Please make sure as you explore this that you will be able to have someone help you to see through it lies.. cause its a very strong illusion.. but just with any illusion once you see through it we cant go back
THECATINTHEHAT
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2005
- Messages
- 8,186
What was your payoff for taking drugs?
AA/NA is definitely not the only way to become happy. It is a way that works for many people, but I would encourage you to think about whether it will work for you if you don't really like or agree with it?
I was in and out of the rooms for a couple of years and I definitely learnt an awful lot of good stuff there, but in the end I couldn't assimilate the basic premises with my way of thinking in the end so I'm trying to put together a different kind of care plan for myself this time.
I applaud your desire to not just take meds and try to conquer your difficulties through working on your mind and thought patterns, I think that says a lot about your willingness and desire to stay clean and not just take the easy route out when something dofficult pops up. Really, I think it's great that you're fighting to deal with this without meds.
Would definitely like to hear other people's opinions on this matter, it's a really big issue for lots of people and know it will probably be a problem for me once I've detoxed.
Thanks Owen. Hope all is well my friend. Ok so today was kind of rough just to give you a little background I think like this alot. I use to think like this about nothing but opiates, but over the past month my mind discovered that alcohol could also make me relapse so now it has been focused on that. Here is how my thought patterns go and they have been going on like this for about a year. But now of course my mind tells me it is worse.
I wake up and my mind "today you may relapse. you are heading down for a path for relapse. ALcohol is everywhere and eventually you will relapse on it and then be addicted to that. Fuck that I do not want to relapse and I do not even like alcohol. Now I am at work and I feel horrible. This feeling inside my chest will never go away. Yeah it wont go away without AA. Yeah but I do not like AA. Then you will never get sober. You cannot make it. You want to relapse. No I do not that is the last thing I want to do. Yeah but now it is worse and your first counselor said that if you do not go to AA you will feel so bad you will eventually relapse. How about you relapse at your high school reunion this week. NA Im good. How bout I never relapse because it will not get me anywhere. Fuck I hope I am not close to relpasing."
And this is how it has been for about a year except for the past month with alcohol. I am a little scared because alcohol is everywhere and I can feel my mind just craving something.
I wake up and my mind "today you may relapse. you are heading down for a path for relapse. ALcohol is everywhere and eventually you will relapse on it and then be addicted to that. Fuck that I do not want to relapse and I do not even like alcohol. Now I am at work and I feel horrible. This feeling inside my chest will never go away. Yeah it wont go away without AA. Yeah but I do not like AA. Then you will never get sober. You cannot make it. You want to relapse. No I do not that is the last thing I want to do. Yeah but now it is worse and your first counselor said that if you do not go to AA you will feel so bad you will eventually relapse. How about you relapse at your high school reunion this week. NA Im good. How bout I never relapse because it will not get me anywhere. Fuck I hope I am not close to relpasing."
And this is how it has been for about a year except for the past month with alcohol. I am a little scared because alcohol is everywhere and I can feel my mind just craving something.
And I also Have this empty, dead, angry feeling in my chest alot. Like for hours at a time. ANd my leg shakes. Relapse is not an option. I mean I been sober for 2-3 years, but I cannot take these feelings. Any help would be great. Thanks y'all
Hey deuce.. can you expand on this a little. Three years in is a long time to still be having any physical symptoms. Do you think the feeling in your chest is anxiety?
Also i you want to share what you are currently doing for your recovery plan we may be able to lend some wisdom there.
Also i you want to share what you are currently doing for your recovery plan we may be able to lend some wisdom there.
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NSA I really do not know if it is just anxiety. It feels like it, but it is much stronger. It just feels like an uneasiness in my chest that will not go away. I do not want to do drugs. I think it is because in my rehab they told me I was going to die if I did not go to AA. My counselor told me if I did not do the steps that the anxiety and depression would get so bad that I would relapse. SO I think I am going to relapse and each time it feels worse. I am sick of it. I have not really did anything for my recovery. I do not know what to do. My therapist says it is definitely more OCD than cravings, but I do not know. The idea of having a progressive disease really messes me up. Thanks for your time.
i did the steps years and years ago.. they made an overall positive difference in my life.. I use things I have learned from the fellowships on a daily basis.. but it never kept me clean.. even when I bought into it hook line and sinker... you're in a really safe place so whatever you have ever wanted to share.. this is a great place.
addiction has more than one level..
roots
and symptoms are the main two.. tho this is even a simplified deal.
some are able to be dealt with.. one of the symptoms is still up in the air.. but even if it never goes away completely we can devise a proper plan of action that allows us to crush it when it comes up.
Your doing great.. now how can you find peace?
addiction has more than one level..
roots
and symptoms are the main two.. tho this is even a simplified deal.
some are able to be dealt with.. one of the symptoms is still up in the air.. but even if it never goes away completely we can devise a proper plan of action that allows us to crush it when it comes up.
Your doing great.. now how can you find peace?
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So how did you wind up staying clean? It is not very hard for me to stay clean. I dont think. My mind is constantly messing with me. I am all messed up in the head. But hey at least I am sober. I have bad OCD. I use to worry about all kinds of stuff. Now I worry about this and it feels so real. Thanks for your response. What helped you stay clean and change your life?
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I got clean, stayed clean, and destroyed all this by identifying, understanding, planning and implimanting way to deal with and apss through four main areas.
1) the acutes
2) the paws
3) the addiction
4) the roots to the addiction.
from where you have gotten to you should be clear through the acute and post acute.
From the brain and addiction thread and other things you have learned.. what do you feal addiction is. What have you done to address it. What has worked and what hasn't. What symptoms do you still struggle with
.. what have you not tried?
What have you done to try and identify and address the roots to your addiction.. or why was the use of drugs so positive in the begging that you used to such an extent that the addiction happened.. or what did drugs do so positive for you in the begging. A good way to think of this is when you first used that drug what changed in your perception of life that was so good initially?
Once again just some questions to think about and feal free to share whatever you feal like.
Contrary to much of the current system, even though the shoe is often similar, its not a one shoe fits all foot. So instead of me sharing what I did right off the bat.. if you want share some of the struggles and triumphs you have had and we all can try and brain storm some good ideas.
One thing though.. do you exercise?
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. I worked all that out
1) the acutes
2) the paws
3) the addiction
4) the roots to the addiction.
from where you have gotten to you should be clear through the acute and post acute.
From the brain and addiction thread and other things you have learned.. what do you feal addiction is. What have you done to address it. What has worked and what hasn't. What symptoms do you still struggle with
.. what have you not tried? What have you done to try and identify and address the roots to your addiction.. or why was the use of drugs so positive in the begging that you used to such an extent that the addiction happened.. or what did drugs do so positive for you in the begging. A good way to think of this is when you first used that drug what changed in your perception of life that was so good initially?
Once again just some questions to think about and feal free to share whatever you feal like.
Contrary to much of the current system, even though the shoe is often similar, its not a one shoe fits all foot. So instead of me sharing what I did right off the bat.. if you want share some of the struggles and triumphs you have had and we all can try and brain storm some good ideas.
One thing though.. do you exercise?
Exercise 4 Health, Mental Health, and Addiction vs. I worked all that out
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It took me a while to try to answer this question. Truth is I really do not know personally what to think of addiction. I mean i have been addicted to something since I was 10 years old.
First addiction was food.Now what I cannot figure out and I probably never will is did I become addicted to food because I was in emotional pain. Which around the time I went through a couple of things that were emotionally disheartening to me.
Or am I just cursed with the genetic makeup of addiction. I do not know.
I do agree with you that once you are addicted your brain is hijacked and it does get worse and harder to quit. I still battle junk food cravings everyday. I try to quit everyday, and it just does not happen. When I was hooked on opiates.
I did this at first to have fun. I did not really like drinking so I figured after I got out of a big test or ended a semester most students go to the bar and drink. Well I did not like that so me and my friend would go see the pill man and get loaded.
I still get excited thinking about it. My addiction escalated within two years after that and I was taking them in the morning so I could not quit. I went to rehab and they put in my head that I would relapse without 12 steps and I had a chronic progressive disease that would get worse and worse without aa/na. I think this kicked my ocd in overdrive.
I hate the thought of being an addict for life. I hate addiction. That is why I am so hard on myself. i cannot accept the fact that I am an addict. Or I would like to say was an addict. But I am still addicted to food. The symptoms I still struggle with are the thoughts that seem so real. Thoughts of relapse. I do not want to use at all, but I am obsessed with the thoughts.
I have tried working the steps and doing aa/na and I do not really care for it. They say I am not letting go and letting my higher power deal with things. I just do not want to be in them meetings the rest of my life.
I never tried meditation. I use to exercise a good bit when I came off Suboxone in 2012, but messed up my leg and shoulder so I am kind of limited. I just worry. it is frustrating, not really tempted to use. I do not know. I am kind of lost right now. It has to get better. I will keep pushing, but there is work to be done. I just have to figure out how to do it. Thanks
First addiction was food.Now what I cannot figure out and I probably never will is did I become addicted to food because I was in emotional pain. Which around the time I went through a couple of things that were emotionally disheartening to me.
Or am I just cursed with the genetic makeup of addiction. I do not know.
I do agree with you that once you are addicted your brain is hijacked and it does get worse and harder to quit. I still battle junk food cravings everyday. I try to quit everyday, and it just does not happen. When I was hooked on opiates.
I did this at first to have fun. I did not really like drinking so I figured after I got out of a big test or ended a semester most students go to the bar and drink. Well I did not like that so me and my friend would go see the pill man and get loaded.
I still get excited thinking about it. My addiction escalated within two years after that and I was taking them in the morning so I could not quit. I went to rehab and they put in my head that I would relapse without 12 steps and I had a chronic progressive disease that would get worse and worse without aa/na. I think this kicked my ocd in overdrive.
I hate the thought of being an addict for life. I hate addiction. That is why I am so hard on myself. i cannot accept the fact that I am an addict. Or I would like to say was an addict. But I am still addicted to food. The symptoms I still struggle with are the thoughts that seem so real. Thoughts of relapse. I do not want to use at all, but I am obsessed with the thoughts.
I have tried working the steps and doing aa/na and I do not really care for it. They say I am not letting go and letting my higher power deal with things. I just do not want to be in them meetings the rest of my life.
I never tried meditation. I use to exercise a good bit when I came off Suboxone in 2012, but messed up my leg and shoulder so I am kind of limited. I just worry. it is frustrating, not really tempted to use. I do not know. I am kind of lost right now. It has to get better. I will keep pushing, but there is work to be done. I just have to figure out how to do it. Thanks
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Give NA and or AA another shot. Try SMART. Try everything, just do not use no matter what.
Personally, I now realize that I cannot stop on my own. I need help. I am currently finding it "in the rooms", but it is far far far from the only way. Everybody is different. Whatever happens for me now though is that I know I cannot stop by myself. Sure I can temporarily not use, but my thinking is all fucked up sometimes and can get extremely obsessive. I am trying to be as obsessive about recovery as I am about using. Its worked for six days and it did work previously for me before. Only time I have ever been able to put in a year clean has been through going to support groups and 12 step meetings. In my experience, I stopped going, thought I could control it and was lost right then and there. Doomed to go back out again and now here I am totally raw in sobriety again, crying one minute, laughing and weeping with joy the next. At least I have some joy today.
I know one alcoholic who has OCD who just celebrated her 5th year of total sobriety. She had to put in tremendous work though, but she is doing good now.
Personally, I now realize that I cannot stop on my own. I need help. I am currently finding it "in the rooms", but it is far far far from the only way. Everybody is different. Whatever happens for me now though is that I know I cannot stop by myself. Sure I can temporarily not use, but my thinking is all fucked up sometimes and can get extremely obsessive. I am trying to be as obsessive about recovery as I am about using. Its worked for six days and it did work previously for me before. Only time I have ever been able to put in a year clean has been through going to support groups and 12 step meetings. In my experience, I stopped going, thought I could control it and was lost right then and there. Doomed to go back out again and now here I am totally raw in sobriety again, crying one minute, laughing and weeping with joy the next. At least I have some joy today.
I know one alcoholic who has OCD who just celebrated her 5th year of total sobriety. She had to put in tremendous work though, but she is doing good now.
Thanks for your response phactor. I tried AA/NA a few times. Been to countless meetings, and I just grew tired of it. I really do not think it is for me. Smart I read up on, but they do not have any in my area. I tried the online thing, but it did not seem real enough. I know there is a way out there for me to strive, but I just have to figure it out. Thanks again.
Man this sucks. I am back with the anxiety and the nagging voices in my head. But I will not break. Maybe bend a little. I am sick of this though. I just want to be a normal fucking person who does not even think about drugs. I do not like drugs personally, but my brain fucking loves them. I wish I could just be normal and drink a beer here and there. WHO knows I never was hooked on alcohol so maybe I will.I felt so good for a few days this week. Now this black depressed anxious cloud is back. ANy advice would be great. Thanks
What do you feal you are missing out on?
Well everyone of my friends drink. The ones who never had a problem with drugs. I do not like being a drug addict and having to deal with this the rest of my life. Never knowing when I am going to relapse or not. I am 27 years old and single. I want to go out and enjoy myself. Only place I know where people go are bars. I do not even really love the alcohol. I just like knowing I could drink a few without having a full blown relapse like my rehab told me I would. I am going to go at least another year before I try a drink. I am just sick of these feelings and thinking and obsessing about drugs and relapse.