my spiritual conflict with meth

[tantric]

according to my weird version of buddhism, dukkha, suffering or the dissatifying nature of life, is basically addiction. suffering comes from grasping (at things, mostly), seeking out sensations only to find that the pleasure lasts only an instant, leaving a hole that must be filled by more sensation. according to buddhist philosophy, true joy comes from abandoning this grasping and leading a moral life of peace. i personally associate these two things, suffering/pleasure and joy/bliss, with dopamine and serotonin. thus, logically, meth is the devil, right?

the other day, my sister caged me into smoking a bit, while i was on a 2nd plateau DXM trip. that day, i got an ENORMOUS amount of work done. i finished assembling and ordering my room, which i'd been putting off for weeks then cleaned out and rearranged my drawers and closet. before i had to laundry baskets for clean and dirty clothes. now i have a drawer for tshirts and undies, plus a closet with areas for coats, pants and shirts, all hung up. i have a *wardrobe*. thing is, i also jacked off about 5 times, including a few times in a video chat room. though i hadn't masturbated for 3 weeks previously - i usually don't. cathartic, much. afterwards, i went to sleep, go up the next day and went on with my business, no craving.

so what the hell? i KNOW its evil, but damn, it gets shit done. and since i'm a dxm daily doser, i'm totally immune to addiction. how should i look at this?

 

[Mysterie]

taking dxm every day makes you immune to addiction to meth?

i thought it helps reduce tolerance or somesuch

 

[tantric]

i take 150 mg - and i just don't get addicted nor develop tolerance. likewise i can smoke if i ant to, no danger, take pain meds as directed, even though i used to be a hardcore morphine/methadone addict.

 

[Foreigner]

"Suffering" in Buddhism has been mistranslated. It means dissatisfactoriness. Buddhism isn't about achieving joy or eliminating suffering, it's about contentment. Contentment comes from understanding impermanence, emptiness, and independent arising/dissolving. Joy and suffering are transitory states. Trying to avoid one while chasing the other is attachment.

So I'm not quite sure what you're asking. You seem to be implying that meth is a good thing because it makes you feel good and helps you accomplish a lot, but as any Buddhist will tell you, activity and productivity are not really indicators of realization. Our whole world is based on productivity and look where it has lead us... people doing things for the sake of doing them leading to wholesale destruction and suffering.

My sense is that you have the freedom to do whatever you want. If this is about attainment or enlightenment, then what matters most is the inner state you maintain through any situation. If you still feel dissatisfactoriness or still need something to augment your experience, then you're not there yet. If your life is "better" with meth than without then attachment is happening.

Btw I'm not Buddhist so I don't claim their way is correct or not, I just know it well.

 

[tantric]

"Suffering" in Buddhism has been mistranslated. It means dissatisfactoriness. Buddhism isn't about achieving joy or eliminating suffering, it's about contentment. Contentment comes from understanding impermanence, emptiness, and independent arising/dissolving. Joy and suffering are transitory states. Trying to avoid one while chasing the other is attachment.

So I'm not quite sure what you're asking. You seem to be implying that meth is a good thing because it makes you feel good and helps you accomplish a lot, but as any Buddhist will tell you, activity and productivity are not really indicators of realization. Our whole world is based on productivity and look where it has lead us... people doing things for the sake of doing them leading to wholesale destruction and suffering.

My sense is that you have the freedom to do whatever you want. If this is about attainment or enlightenment, then what matters most is the inner state you maintain through any situation. If you still feel dissatisfactoriness or still need something to augment your experience, then you're not there yet. If your life is "better" with meth than without then attachment is happening.

Btw I'm not Buddhist so I don't claim their way is correct or not, I just knDow it well.

i did say "dukkha, suffering or the dissatifying nature of life" ;-) what you call contentment, i call joy - the same idea, the feeling one gets from following the eightfold path. for me, though, some of the experiences are VERY intense, especially when i'm being strict. the bliss can be overwhelming, i suspect this is in part due to the daily DXM. i can sit outside on my lunchbreak, meditate for a few, and feel like i've had half a dose of x. and the joy isn't something you pursue, it's a state of being. i seem to remember the buddha himself sat for seven days after defeating mara, lost in meditation.

you are right, in a sense - samsara and nirvana are nondual. pursuing enlightenment is itself a form of attachment, which leads to suffering, but i think you're misunderstanding me.

So I'm not quite sure what you're asking. You seem to be implying that meth is a good thing because it makes you feel good and helps you accomplish a lot, but as any Buddhist will tell you, activity and productivity are not really indicators of realization. Our whole world is based on productivity and look where it has lead us... people doing things for the sake of doing them leading to wholesale destruction and suffering.

i'm not trying to tweak out and get the light, nor am i a monk. i way real, physical labor i must do to carry on my life. two months ago, my only niece, 23yo, was diagnosed with malignant brain cancer (anaplastic astrocytoma). i was with her when the doc told her, and i asked him to show me which type of astrocytoma on my phone. i read the prognosis while he went on to tell her how chemo would be, never once mentioning that she would die within 5 years after having several more lumps of her brain removed. she was smiling and nodding, assured that everything would be fine. then i had to refuse to tell her mother, at the hospital, until i got her home so she could have her breakdown. i don't get to have a breakdown - i'm going to be the one who helps her die. my family pretty much told me its my job. so, i don't really feel much like doing work right now, and i've gotten behind on my horticulture and writing. i used the meth to catch up, and it was DAMN helpful. if i'm hurt, should i refuse narcotics? that's nonsense. the middle path suggests that use isn't abuse.
and i'm the mortal enemy of consumer capitalism. i've written oodles about materialism as an addiction and how it will destroy our society.
?
is my life better with meth? well, it's better with caffeine - all buddhists use caffeine to meditate, so what's the dif? my life is DECIDEDLY better with opiates - have you ever had a kidney stone? yes, i know, that's silly. if meth only let me get stuff done, it wouldn't be an issue. it's the b uncontrollable porn sex crap that bugs me. that is WAY bad. i really think porn is basically wrong. and i'm SURE jacking off on a webcam site isn't healthy.

frankly, i think i'm going to buy some modafinil. it never game me any kind of conflict.

 

[swilow]

and since i'm a dxm daily doser, i'm totally immune to addiction

But ironic...

 

[tantric]

no - not the same. i also take insulin everyday, and melatonin.

Dextromethorphan as a potential rapid-acting antidepressant

Abstract: Dextromethorphan shares pharmacological properties in common with antidepressants and, in particular, ketamine, a drug with demonstrated rapid-acting antidepressant activity. Pharmacodynamic similarities include actions on NMDA, μ opiate, sigma-1, calcium channel, serotonin transporter, and muscarinic sites. Additional unique properties potentially contributory to an antidepressant effect include actions at ß, alpha-2, and serotonin1b/d receptors. It is therefore, hypothesized that dextromethorphan may have antidepressant efficacy in bipolar, unipolar, major depression, psychotic, and treatment-resistant depressive disorders, and may display rapid-onset of antidepressant response. An antidepressant response may be associated with a positive family history of alcoholism, prediction of ketamine response, increased AMPA–to–NMDA receptor activity ratio, antidepressant properties in animal models of depression, reward system activation, enhanced erythrocyte magnesium concentration, and correlation with frontal μ receptor binding potential. Clinical trials of dextromethorphan in depressive disorders, especially treatment-resistant depression, now seem warranted.


An extension of hypotheses regarding rapid-acting, treatment-refractory, and conventional antidepressant activity of dextromethorphan and dextrorphan

Abstract: It was previously hypothesized that dextromethorphan (DM) and dextrorphan (DX) may possess antidepressant properties, including rapid and conventional onsets of action and utility in treatment-refractory depression, based on pharmacodynamic similarities to ketamine. These similarities included sigma-1 (σ1) agonist and NMDA antagonist properties, calcium channel blockade, muscarinic binding, serotonin transporter (5HTT) inhibition, and μ receptor potentiation. Here, six specific hypotheses are developed in light of additional mechanisms and evidence. Comparable potencies to ketamine for DM and DX are detailed for σ1 (DX > DM > ketamine), NMDA PCP site (DX > ketamine > DM), and muscarinic (DX > ketamine >>>> DM) receptors, 5HTT (DM > DX ≫ ketamine), and NMDA antagonist potentiation of μ receptor stimulation (DM > ketamine). Rapid acting antidepressant properties of DM include NMDA high-affinity site, NMDR-2A, and functional NMDR-2B receptor antagonism, σ1 stimulation, putative mTOR activation (by σ1 stimulation, μ potentiation, and 5HTT inhibition), putative AMPA receptor trafficking (by mTOR activation, PCP antagonism, σ1 stimulation, μ potentiation, and 5HTT inhibition), and dendritogenesis, spinogenesis, synaptogenesis, and neuronal survival by NMDA antagonism and σ1 and mTOR signaling. Those for dextrorphan include NMDA high-affinity site and NMDR-2A antagonism, σ1 stimulation, putative mTOR activation (by σ1 stimulation and ß adrenoreceptor stimulation), putative AMPA receptor trafficking (by mTOR activation, PCP antagonism, σ1 stimulation, ß stimulation, and μ antagonism), and dendritogenesis, spinogenesis, synaptogenesis, and neuronal survival by NMDA antagonism and σ1 and mTOR signaling. Conventional antidepressant properties for dextromethorphan and dextrorphan include 5HTT and norepinephrine transporter inhibition, σ1 stimulation, NMDA and PCP antagonism, and possible serotonin 5HT1b/d receptor stimulation. Additional properties for dextromethorphan include possible presynaptic α2 adrenoreceptor antagonism or postsynaptic α2 stimulation and, for dextrorphan, ß stimulation and possible muscarinic and μ antagonism. Treatment-refractory depression properties include increased serotonin and norepinephrine availability, PCP, NMDR-2B, presynaptic alpha-2 antagonism, and the multiplicity of other antidepressant receptor mechanisms. Suggestions for clinical trials are provided for oral high-dose dextromethorphan and Nuedexta (dextromethorphan combined with quinidine to block metabolism to dextrorphan, thereby increasing dextromethorphan plasma concentrations). Suggestions include exclusionary criteria, oral dosing, observation periods, dose–response approaches, and safety and tolerability are considered. Although oral dextromethorphan may be somewhat more likely to show efficacy through complementary antidepressant mechanisms of dextrorphan, a clinical trial will be more logistically complex than one of Nuedexta due to high doses and plasma level variability. Clinical trials may increase our therapeutic armamentarium and our pharmacological understanding of treatment-refractory depression and antidepressant onset of action.

 

[punkftl]

When one is confronted with a mental illness such as addiction, adhd, or depression...science should come first. The reason why methamphetamine is great at relieving depression is it's ability to increase dopamine levels. People who have adhd or depression have shown to be deficient in serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine. Where does the Devil come in? Really???. The devil is a manufactured evil and is meant to scare people...thanks Christianity

 

[tantric]

it comes down to preference, i guess - i prefer to have a dopamine modulator, so that my DA levels are constant regardless of the situation (which means junk food tastes like junk) then work with serotonin. having that serotonin bliss in your daily life is worth it, IMHO.