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My nanna can't tell an amphetamine from a methamphetamine!

special t b k, i watch my dealer get base and cut it with glucose to make speed, are you saying that base isn't methamphetamine?

and yeah its a gram a day, 2 8balls a week, but i think it only got to be that much they were having for the past month. before that it was an 8ball every week or 2 for probably 3 or 4 months. i have seen my friend make lines, half a gram in 3 fat lines. before work.
so you people reckon i should say something to my friend or just let them go?
 
Special-T.B.K says:
No speed is not cut Meth, I can not count how many times I've read that question... NO IT'S NOT....
Click to expand...

mate I really don't think you can back up your claim I quote above. It has been proven many times over and over again that speed is GENERALLY impure methamphetamine in the Australian context. Impure could suggest a product that was cut or one that was simply a bad synth. sadly its usually a bit of both.

somegirl: regarding you question I would say that many of the regulars who have seen the topic come up before actually refer to both "ice" and "speed" when talking about methamphetamine. If your unsure what the product your getting contains I suggest testing it with Marquis and Simon's to differentiate.
I would hypothesis that "speed" is considered a little less nasty by many people because of its relative impurity (in general). This makes it much harder to get the same effect from it, in particular smoking speed generally doesn't result in the same immediate "rush" experience with crystal meth also know as ice. Due to this many users tend not be as compulsive and may not consume as large quantities.

I think its hard to gauge a "OK" level of use as speed is notorious for huge variations in purity. So 100 mg of your speed may be the equivalent of 1000 mg of mine for example.
Hence I think its a very bad idea to look to people here for reassurance about any particular level of use.
Having said that I would recommend keeping any use to a minimum and to compartmentalize it to a occasion such as going out. This may help you avoid its use spilling into your everyday life. If this happens your probably using to much, regardless of the quality of the product.
 
^good post mongman.
i would say that the reason people find ice to be more addictive is because it has a quicker route of administration and is not due to any chemical differences between speed and ice. smoking provides a quicker onset of effects and hence a stronger initial rush. If your using a reinforcement modle it would mean that the behaviour (smoking ice) results in reinforcement (euphoria), the quicker a behaviour is reinforced the more likely it is that behaviour will be repeated and the stronger the association between behaviour and reinforcement is. that said, there is a flaw to this modle in that humans are complex and have thoughts, expectations blah blah.
As to whether or not your friend is addicted, do they get withdrawel symptoms? strong cravings? Using the substance regularly and in most situations? IMO thats alot of speed to use and since its everyday, then this will probably result in an addiction if it already has happened. Stand by your friend, maybe express to them about your concern, but that point of the matter is they are not going to give up until they are ready.
 
General rule of thumb: daily use of any drug is too much.

Anyone up for a coffee?
 
Threads merged = this is the meth vs speed debate thread. Yep, there's 7 pages of replies now, some of them very very good.

BigTrancer :)
 
Dr Shulgin puts my nanna right

My nanna can't tell, but Dr Shulgin knows best...
Check out his explanation here:

Ask Dr. Shulgin Online
Manufacturing a World with Real Drug Education
Wednesday, April 06, 2005
Ice, Crank, Speed, Methamphetamine
Dear Dr. Shulgin:

What exactly is "ice" and how does it differ from "crank" “speed” or “methamphetamine”? What are the adverse effects of this drug on an individual? -- Jennifer

Dear Jennifer:

There has been quite a flood of questions recently about "ice" so I suspect that there might have been an upsurge of the use of "ice" itself.

First, a statement of simple fact. "Ice" and the hydrochloride salt of d-methamphetamine are identical chemicals and thus have identical effects. They differ in their appearance, however, and in their usual routes of self-administration. d-Methamphetamine hydrochloride has classically been seen as very fine white powder. However, if you dissolved it in boiling water and either put the solution into a refrigerator, or let the water evaporate slowly, it forms large transparent crystals that can vary in size from grains of rice up to the last joint of your little finger.

The white powder form has classically been taken orally or injected, whereas the "ice" crystalline form is usually smoked. This product is always the optically active "d" isomer -- efforts to make large crystals from water solutions of the dl-racemic methamphetamine have always failed.

The first seizure of "ice" by the Federal authorities was in Hawaii, in 1985, and it had been imported from Japan (where it was known as Shabu) and from South Korea (where it was known as Hiropong). It rapidly became very popular for smoking, being sold in penny-size plastic bags known as "paper." Each contained 100 milligrams, about four hits and, as each hit was usually well over 12 hours in duration and each "paper" cost $50.00, the high ran less than a dollar an hour. Tripping was referred to as "amping" and the use of smokable crack cocaine virtually disappeared! Another stimulant, 4-methylaminorex or U4Euh), appeared a few years earlier in the eastern United States and was given the name of "ice" but in the long run the Hawaiian smokable methamphetamine got all the attention. In 1989 there were multipage articles in Newsweek and Time, followed early the next year with large spreads in Rolling Stone and Good Housekeeping.

d-Methamphetamine when taken orally peaks in the plasma in about three hours (at 20-30 nanograms per mL), and has a half-life of about 10 hours, but I don't know of any studies of subjects who were given it by smoking. Under normal conditions, about half the administered dose is excreted in the urine in 24 hours, and about a tenth of this amount is the metabolite, amphetamine. But diet can very much influence this -- with acidic urine the excretion can be up to 75%, and with basic urine as low as 2%. A second metabolite in man is the 4-hydroxy analogue.

The Drug Law Enforcement crowd launched a strong, and memorable, radio campaign to deter the spread of "ice" use but may have inadvertently succeeded in popularizing it. This was the very first use of the airwaves for public announcements in the history of the DEA, and it took place in early 1990. It was a 60 second public service radio clip declaring that there is a new form of methamphetamine called "ice" that was very dangerous. The tape begins with a deep voice accompanied by descriptive sound effects:


The ingredients. Sulfuric acid: an industrial corrosive used in lead storage batteries ... it can eat through cloth, metal or flesh (hiss). Red phosphorus: used to make fireworks and the striker surface on packets of matches (sizzle). Mercury: Banned from toxic paints. Used in electronics, fluorescent lamps and cathode ray tubes (click, hum, crackle). Phenylacetic acid: commonly used in insect repellants (buzz). Aluminum foil: commonly used to bake your Christmas turkey (sizzle).


The announcement concluded with:


Nine out of ten chemists say it's a bad idea to put these materials in your brain. It all goes into making methamphetamine hydrochloride, "crank," "ice" or "speed." Nine out of ten chemists say, "Don't." The tenth chemist (explosion) was unavailable for comment. This is the Drug Enforcement Administration urging you to think twice before you speed.


-Dr. Shulgin
posted by CCLE at 8:20 AM
 
i skimmed through this thread, yet haven't found a clear answer to what I am after



I have smoked ICE (meth) once (well I was told it was meth - it was a great rush, and a pretty bad comedown...

Recently i've been getting from a VERY reliable source something he told me is "pure speed" (pure amphetamine), I have smoked it a few times now - and it is NOTHING like smoking the ICE (presumably) I had tried once before. It is a bit less intense, and definetely has a smoother come down, it's compareable to eating 'street speed' (which I get very good quality).

After reading this and other threads I now have doubts that it is actually pure amphetamine - doubts only as I have read many people saying "finding actual amphetamine in au. is almost impossible".

I wasn't anything special in grade 12 chemistry so I don't know if it's likely that only methamphetamine is being produced - All I know is the effects I have experianced - and what i've been told - again from a VERY reliable source.



The stuff is coming out of sydney anyway...




Basically I am wondering if I am getting meth or amphetamine (i know it's impossible for any of you to tell me but what are the chances!)



:)
 
In all likelihood, it's probably methamphetamine. Until a few labs are found that are producing meth via a ketone intermediate, then it's impossible to say if the smarter cooks are using alternatives to pseudoephedrine.

My bet though, is that it will happen eventually if pseudo becomes nigh on impossible to obtain. In which case, in the same way that MDA is substituted in MDMA, amphetamine will likely be found in meth, or passed off as meth.

Although meth can be turned into amphetamine, it would be less than a straightforward process for anyone only familiar with a basic pseudo reduction. And it would be producing something users don't want, so it wouldn't make economic sense. However, if a time comes when meth is being produced from other starting materials, and the desired amine is unavailable, then ammonia might well be used to produce amphetamine instead.
 
Be on the lookout for a synthesis regarding plastic(styrene). If that turns out to work, good luck trying to stop meth.
 
mmm...well that would mean either purchasing the styrene outright - and as it's a carcinogen and a mutagen, that might not be so easy - or depolymerise polystyrene. That has been talked about before, although any method that requires heat has it's problems as styrene becomes potentially explosive at the mid point temps required (Kirk Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology) There's one route using styrene oxide to produce the ketone, but that uses a grignard reagent, and that would require a bit more knowhow than the typical synths from pseudo.

Other methods I once read of involve making or purchasing methylstyrene, but most of these methods require either hard to get chems or extremely toxic chems, or both, and all go through P2P. So unless some break-through has been made that I'm unaware of - always possible - I doubt methods starting from styrene would be a first choice replacement for pseudoephedrine reduction.
 
thanks for the replies - so hypothetically speaking *if* i knew someone who was cooking "speed" and was starting with pseudo, they would most likely be making meth, not amphetmine if they had VERY basic knowledge of chemistry...
 
^ Absolutely correct.

I am not going to repeat everything that has been said by myself and others but there are many factors that may cause differences in how one perceives the effects of certain drugs.

Long gone is the day that "speed" is taken to mean amphetamine. That is a slang term and it is unhelpful. A lot of "speed" in the UK is amphetamine which is perhaps where the connection between the drug and the street slang is propagated.

I do have one solution for you. Test it with an Extreme tester and in a fraction of a second you will know categorically if it is amphetamine or methylamphetamine. Debate over. My bet is you will have meth.
 
No SOMEGIRL- I am not referring to Speed as being cut Meth (the slang getting dragged through the dirt)

Methamphetamine= Speed, Ice(wot e're told is ice), Glass, Shards, Base, Goo, Pink Champagne, Ox Blood etc...

When you were saying *Meth* I thought you were referring to *4-Mar* ICE...

Mongman- No I don't think Cut Base isn't speed, or vice versa. Merely got confused with the words being used!

SpecTBK=D
 
In perth there seems to be yellow crystal meth with a strong dead ant smell that you used to get from the oldschool paste/whizz. It's actual crystals and smokes up really well, leaving nice clear puddles, although the high seems to be quite mellow, so im really confused. You dont get the normal rush and euphoria that im used. this stuff makes your mind run at a million miles and hour and last for ages and i mean ages. Peoples are calling this 'smokeable whizz' but like... 8)

Any ideas?
 
Yeah, i had some yellow crystal in melbourne a few weeks back, just a wierd yellow tinge - like opaque yellow.

smoked up well, tasted a lil bit dirty really, and left some residue in the pipe after a few burns. IMO just hadnt been washed properly..

Fry-d- would you have any idea what would cause it to be yellow in appearance?
 
zaineaol.nu said:
Yeah, i had some yellow crystal in melbourne a few weeks back, just a wierd yellow tinge - like opaque yellow.
Click to expand...

Impurities, of course. :)

Possibly un-reacted pseudoephedrine of low purity. The pseudoephedrine was probably extracted from cold and flu tablets, it's unlikely that utmost care was taken to ensure that the extracted precursor was washed, ridding it of any unnecessary compounds like codeine phosphate, paracetamol and triprolidine hydrochloride, which are also possibly present and cause for the yellow colour.

It could also be un-reacted iodine.

A dual solvent recrystallization will clean it up, but without knowing the method of synthesis that the cook followed, it could be anything.

Ashley.
 
I have come across meth that ranged from yellow-to-pink-to-brown (yes, brown!). It's most definitely impurities that haven't been washed out properly, I doubt anyone would bother putting food dye in to make it more appealing, because quite simply... whenever a tweaker comes across something pink that's being sold off as speed, their initial reaction is going to be, "wtf!??!" and possibly not buy it.
 
What smell, if any, does high purity crystal methamphetamine HCl have?

I suspect the strong chemical smell of what's sold as "base" is mainly solvent and synthesis byproducts. I also understand that smell is no way to gauge strength and/or purity. :)

Ashley.
 
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