My nanna can't tell an amphetamine from a methamphetamine!
- Thread starter D&AWg
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I must confess i forgot about the rather obvious formaldehyde option. Makes things a bit more viable.
The other thing about any primary amine to secondary amine conversion is precursor losses are losses of something that is actually ACTIVE.
Its all very well to lose MD-P2P making MDMA and pseudoephedrine making meth during those respective syntheses but to be using and losing rather valuable MDA and Amphetamine is another thing entirely.
The other thing about any primary amine to secondary amine conversion is precursor losses are losses of something that is actually ACTIVE.
Its all very well to lose MD-P2P making MDMA and pseudoephedrine making meth during those respective syntheses but to be using and losing rather valuable MDA and Amphetamine is another thing entirely.
Note on formaldehyde synth: the product will be far from pure meth. There will be amphetamine present in the final product as well as dimethylamphetamine (~6%).
Also it must be noted, that this discussion applies solely to the conversion of amphetamine that is extracted from
d-amphetamine containing pills. When amphetamine is manufactured, there are fairly easy methods of producing meth from the stages prior to the formation of amphetamine, but from same precursors.
So in conclusion of this discussion, yes, there ways to go from amphetamine to meth, but for all the reasons stated by Biscuit, phase_dancer and myself, it could never serve a practical purpose. (unless of course a truck load of dexies falls from the sky into your backyard
Also it must be noted, that this discussion applies solely to the conversion of amphetamine that is extracted from
d-amphetamine containing pills. When amphetamine is manufactured, there are fairly easy methods of producing meth from the stages prior to the formation of amphetamine, but from same precursors.
So in conclusion of this discussion, yes, there ways to go from amphetamine to meth, but for all the reasons stated by Biscuit, phase_dancer and myself, it could never serve a practical purpose. (unless of course a truck load of dexies falls from the sky into your backyard
BigTrancer
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*bump*
^^^ either the operative part of your post is "street grade" or you don't quite know what you are talking about. The high of meth (whatever concentration as long as it hasn't got any nasties in it) is infinitelly better the amphetamine. I'm sure there might be a few freaks out there that will say otherwise just to be different, but its a pretty well accepted psuedo-fact.
The only case where I can see amphetamine may be the prefferred substance is when someone is trying to get off meth.
The only case where I can see amphetamine may be the prefferred substance is when someone is trying to get off meth.
Sllip
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Well unlike nanna I can definately tell the difference between the two. And the other week I tried a little amphet for a change and didn't really enjoy it. Felt the same rushiness like I do off meth, but couldn't be fucked doing anything. Usually if I have meth then straight away it's like gotta do this, gotta do that. Today I'm going to do everything I have been putting off for the last 2 years!
But on amphet it's like, "Meh, I really should do it, but can't be fooked."
Plus off amphet I get nasty comedowns that last days, plus I tend to get shitty and angry at people for no reason.
But on amphet it's like, "Meh, I really should do it, but can't be fooked."
Plus off amphet I get nasty comedowns that last days, plus I tend to get shitty and angry at people for no reason.
phase_dancer
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^ Interesting. I find the exact opposite, although I haven't seen amph for some time, and I have no interest in meth use without some special purpose anymore. So, if applied to study, cramming etc, amphetamine wins hands down for me (and most people I think) but it does have more immediate side effects than meth.
I'm not doubting your claims Sllip, as depending upon personal chemistry, amphetamines seem to do different things to different people. The medical fraternity certainly holds this view or we'd see them handed out more freely 8(
Although Ive seen some people take meth for years and years with no apparent ill effects, for others a short binge can spell a hasty doom. So there's lots of variables. Not wishing to suggest more drug taking, but to exclude some less obvious variables may require repeating the comparison; maybe standardising your environment, energy levels, mood [through objective assessment] etc.
for the feedback
I'm not doubting your claims Sllip, as depending upon personal chemistry, amphetamines seem to do different things to different people. The medical fraternity certainly holds this view or we'd see them handed out more freely 8(
Although Ive seen some people take meth for years and years with no apparent ill effects, for others a short binge can spell a hasty doom. So there's lots of variables. Not wishing to suggest more drug taking, but to exclude some less obvious variables may require repeating the comparison; maybe standardising your environment, energy levels, mood [through objective assessment] etc.
Sllip
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^^^
I hear ya!
I've found that I'm back to front compared to most people I know. Every second person I talk to says they enjoy the meth high, but the comedowns are not worth the high and do prefer amphet. But I'm the total opposite, and get no real comedown off meth.
That's probably why I have to be careful with how much I take because it is almost the perfect drug for me!!
I hear ya!
I've found that I'm back to front compared to most people I know. Every second person I talk to says they enjoy the meth high, but the comedowns are not worth the high and do prefer amphet. But I'm the total opposite, and get no real comedown off meth.
That's probably why I have to be careful with how much I take because it is almost the perfect drug for me!!
I agree with phase_dancer's comments here. People do vary in their responses to amphetamines (plural, meaning the class of drugs).
Perhaps the most well-known paradoxical effect is that of Ritalin, which calms down children who have attention deficit disorder instead of speeding them up. Years ago my nanna was (incorrectly, imo) prescribed Ritalin for chronic fatigue. She didn't have ADD and found it very unpleasant - she was jittery and wired, and not in the nice way!
I have known a fair number of adults who find amphetamines sedating or demotivating and have suspected that they might have suffered from ADD as kids, although this disorder is notoriously problematic to diagnose in adulthood. (Just my hypothesis, I haven't seen any research to back that up.)
As for drugs of choice, it is really is about personal choice and personal chemistry. For example, most opiate users don't like amphetamines, and vice versa, as they have such opposite effects (and yes, there are those who migrate from one drug extreme to the other). Runner2, I take your point that you prefer the effects of meth to those of amphetamine, but I don't think you can generalise about others. My nanna, skanky old crackwhore that she is, loves a bit of speed on the dancefloor to get her revved up and her heels clicking, but she definitely prefers meth for a cruisy laidback day-after recovery. Mind you, we've had to hide her ice pipe to stop her humping people's legs - it makes her ever so horny, which speed doesn't do. And speed makes her sound focused and intelligent, while meth makes her spout endless amounts of crap and get very scattered.
As for using amphetamine to get off meth, I'm not so sure. With most drugs, if you are using frequent high doses and stop abruptly, you will have a bad comedown/withdrawal. Tapering off the amount and frequency of the meth dose towards the end of the binge will often take the edge off the comedown. Of course you would need the motivation to be able to ration yourself in that way... Perhaps amphetamine might help achieve this inasmuch as it is a less intense drug, but so might smaller amounts of methamphetamine, methinks.
Having said that, I believe there are plans in Sydney for a clinical trial of dexamphetamine as a withdrawal management treatment for heavy methampetamine users. (No details, sorry, but the source is reliable.)
Finally, I am always a little skeptical when know-alls like nanna make very definite claims about which variety of drug does what. With pills, we know that just because the dealer swears it's MDMA, it doesn't mean it is. Ditto with the various amphetamines. I always wonder how people know for a fact that they have taken meth or amphetamine, let alone particular isomers, without having a reliable lab test to verify. (Some of our finest Bluelighters do just that, of course
I think in previous years speed was presumed to be amphetamine. However, solid sources such as NDARC tell us that the vast majority of the stuff currently available in Australia is methamphetamine, including most of the cut powder sold as speed. From memory I think at least some of the NDARC stats are based on Customs seizures.
On the other hand, I have see many, many local (Sydney) urine drug screen results that show up amphetamine - sometimes together with methamphetamine, sometimes independently. Could it be that most of the street stuff is imported methamphetamine, while local backyard chemists are still cooking up amphetamine, though less so now that it is more difficult to obtain pseudoephedrine? (I would ask nanna, but she's busy out in the shed, so I'll just throw that question out there.)
And could it be that there is a spectrum of different effects (for example, from wired/buzzy to laidback/cruisy) that is more dose-dependent than variety-dependent - in other words that the effects of low doses of various amphetamines are qualitatively different from the effects of high doses?
Now please excuse me... nanna's just blown up the shed.
Perhaps the most well-known paradoxical effect is that of Ritalin, which calms down children who have attention deficit disorder instead of speeding them up. Years ago my nanna was (incorrectly, imo) prescribed Ritalin for chronic fatigue. She didn't have ADD and found it very unpleasant - she was jittery and wired, and not in the nice way!
I have known a fair number of adults who find amphetamines sedating or demotivating and have suspected that they might have suffered from ADD as kids, although this disorder is notoriously problematic to diagnose in adulthood. (Just my hypothesis, I haven't seen any research to back that up.)
As for drugs of choice, it is really is about personal choice and personal chemistry. For example, most opiate users don't like amphetamines, and vice versa, as they have such opposite effects (and yes, there are those who migrate from one drug extreme to the other). Runner2, I take your point that you prefer the effects of meth to those of amphetamine, but I don't think you can generalise about others. My nanna, skanky old crackwhore that she is, loves a bit of speed on the dancefloor to get her revved up and her heels clicking, but she definitely prefers meth for a cruisy laidback day-after recovery. Mind you, we've had to hide her ice pipe to stop her humping people's legs - it makes her ever so horny, which speed doesn't do. And speed makes her sound focused and intelligent, while meth makes her spout endless amounts of crap and get very scattered.
As for using amphetamine to get off meth, I'm not so sure. With most drugs, if you are using frequent high doses and stop abruptly, you will have a bad comedown/withdrawal. Tapering off the amount and frequency of the meth dose towards the end of the binge will often take the edge off the comedown. Of course you would need the motivation to be able to ration yourself in that way... Perhaps amphetamine might help achieve this inasmuch as it is a less intense drug, but so might smaller amounts of methamphetamine, methinks.
Having said that, I believe there are plans in Sydney for a clinical trial of dexamphetamine as a withdrawal management treatment for heavy methampetamine users. (No details, sorry, but the source is reliable.)
Finally, I am always a little skeptical when know-alls like nanna make very definite claims about which variety of drug does what. With pills, we know that just because the dealer swears it's MDMA, it doesn't mean it is. Ditto with the various amphetamines. I always wonder how people know for a fact that they have taken meth or amphetamine, let alone particular isomers, without having a reliable lab test to verify. (Some of our finest Bluelighters do just that, of course
I think in previous years speed was presumed to be amphetamine. However, solid sources such as NDARC tell us that the vast majority of the stuff currently available in Australia is methamphetamine, including most of the cut powder sold as speed. From memory I think at least some of the NDARC stats are based on Customs seizures.
On the other hand, I have see many, many local (Sydney) urine drug screen results that show up amphetamine - sometimes together with methamphetamine, sometimes independently. Could it be that most of the street stuff is imported methamphetamine, while local backyard chemists are still cooking up amphetamine, though less so now that it is more difficult to obtain pseudoephedrine? (I would ask nanna, but she's busy out in the shed, so I'll just throw that question out there.)
And could it be that there is a spectrum of different effects (for example, from wired/buzzy to laidback/cruisy) that is more dose-dependent than variety-dependent - in other words that the effects of low doses of various amphetamines are qualitatively different from the effects of high doses?
Now please excuse me... nanna's just blown up the shed.
phase_dancer
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Let's just say it was amphetamine........
^^ Hey that's a bit quick off the mark Runner2. It could be some old Benzedrine his nanna has had in the medicine cabinet for 40 years
^^ Hey that's a bit quick off the mark Runner2. It could be some old Benzedrine his nanna has had in the medicine cabinet for 40 years
mongman
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sorry I took so long to reply but I stick by my comment. If I had amphetamine (which I have had many times in the past, ie "dexies") and the abbility to convert this to meth I would not do so. I prefer the high from the amphetamine more than meth. This is a personal choise and was not ment to imply any more than this. But what would I know.....
EDIT: and by "street grade" I mean I did not make it myself and hence have not known the purity. However it was always reagent tested to confirm its identity. Potency wise 20mg /30 mg of the substance smoked would be more than enough for someone with no tollerance.
EDIT: and by "street grade" I mean I did not make it myself and hence have not known the purity. However it was always reagent tested to confirm its identity. Potency wise 20mg /30 mg of the substance smoked would be more than enough for someone with no tollerance.
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Sllip
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It was definately amphetamine since I'm well familiar with the effects of meth. Plus the much shorter half life (Only 6 hours) plus it was a very different kind of buzz. Plus the pain factor from railing was much less, and it was relatively pure since it was smokable with virtually no residue. The colour was a beigy brown, similar clour to the beige rock, but the beige rock was meth.
syntech
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its funny cos for me too, the times that i have been given or bought "speed" i've been extremely irratable, snappy and not at all the cheerful person i usually am.
as for meth i have no nasty side effects like horrific comedowns or yelling at my friends.
my comedowns from speed are incredibly painful, i hurt physically.
thats just my two cents worth
as for meth i have no nasty side effects like horrific comedowns or yelling at my friends.
my comedowns from speed are incredibly painful, i hurt physically.
thats just my two cents worth
As I had hoped the this thread had established that virtually all illicit "speed" is methamphetamine, I'm curious to know how people can be sure they have had amphetamine rather than methamphetamine?
Excluding dexamphetamine in the form of dexies of course.
Have you had it lab tested?
Have you done an Extreme test?
IMO over the last few years somewhere between 95-99 out of 100 samples of speed have been methamphetamine. Amphetamine is virtually never found - this is in WA at least and Im guaranteeing you of this fact. And its based on more than the odd extreme result but that is all that will be said.
For the ordinary user however an Extreme result will prove it categorically one way or the other.
For those that can be positively sure they have amphetamine, I have no opinion on what is better or whether the two can be told apart. In 5 years I cannot be sure I have ever seen amphetamine except in the form of dexies. However since i have bought an Extreme tester I can be sure ive only ever seen methamphetamine.
Metabolites in the urine:
Drug tests will generally show methamphetamine and amphetamine after taking meth. This is because methamphetamine is partly metabolised to amphetamine before excretion.
Of course if the drug test showed amphetamine with no methamphetamine that would be a different story. And my first bet on that one is that the amphetamine came from dexamphetamine and not an illicit source. Otherwise perhaps ALL the methamphetamine was metabolised and only amphetamine remained to be detected. Not sure if that is possible but the evidence indicates to me that it is more likely than there being appreciable supplies of illcit amphetamine out on the street.
Excluding dexamphetamine in the form of dexies of course.
Have you had it lab tested?
Have you done an Extreme test?
IMO over the last few years somewhere between 95-99 out of 100 samples of speed have been methamphetamine. Amphetamine is virtually never found - this is in WA at least and Im guaranteeing you of this fact. And its based on more than the odd extreme result but that is all that will be said.
For the ordinary user however an Extreme result will prove it categorically one way or the other.
For those that can be positively sure they have amphetamine, I have no opinion on what is better or whether the two can be told apart. In 5 years I cannot be sure I have ever seen amphetamine except in the form of dexies. However since i have bought an Extreme tester I can be sure ive only ever seen methamphetamine.
Metabolites in the urine:
Drug tests will generally show methamphetamine and amphetamine after taking meth. This is because methamphetamine is partly metabolised to amphetamine before excretion.
Of course if the drug test showed amphetamine with no methamphetamine that would be a different story. And my first bet on that one is that the amphetamine came from dexamphetamine and not an illicit source. Otherwise perhaps ALL the methamphetamine was metabolised and only amphetamine remained to be detected. Not sure if that is possible but the evidence indicates to me that it is more likely than there being appreciable supplies of illcit amphetamine out on the street.
phase_dancer
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Thanks for the info Biscuit.
Reason why amphetamine made is seldom made in Clandestine labs:
There's a single and widely available - relatively speaking, still widely available - precursor which produces methamphetamine virtually from a one pot reaction. This is ephedrine and comes in the correct optical isomer to produce a (relatively) pure enantiomer (optical isomer).
(1R,2S)-(-)-Ephedrine
The equivalent amphetamine precursor does exist. Phenylpropanolamine (PPA) could be used to make amphetamine, but it's usually present as a mixed isomer. So, while the process may work, the product is virtually half as active, for a product which is already lower that of meth anyway (mg for mg).
DL-Norephedrine hydrochloride or (+)-(-)-Phenylpropanolamine
Reason why amphetamine made is seldom made in Clandestine labs:
There's a single and widely available - relatively speaking, still widely available - precursor which produces methamphetamine virtually from a one pot reaction. This is ephedrine and comes in the correct optical isomer to produce a (relatively) pure enantiomer (optical isomer).
(1R,2S)-(-)-Ephedrine
The equivalent amphetamine precursor does exist. Phenylpropanolamine (PPA) could be used to make amphetamine, but it's usually present as a mixed isomer. So, while the process may work, the product is virtually half as active, for a product which is already lower that of meth anyway (mg for mg).
DL-Norephedrine hydrochloride or (+)-(-)-Phenylpropanolamine
aunty establishment
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Sllip said:
That certainly sounds like badly cleaned methamphetamine which has been heavily cut, to me. All the things you report (shorter life, less pain, beige colour) point to a lower than normal dose. The effects of the same drug can be very different at varying dose points (think about E, for an example).
RyanM
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hm I have a question is there a site that tells the added dangers of snorting Adderall? recently I got a speech about snorting adderall by some kid and they were like "it's too much too fast you have an added risk of heart failure" or some nonsense like that
So uh because I only snort adderall now not a lot though only around 80-120mg daily I know there is a little tiny bird paw of nose damage snorting adderall but is there any more? hopefully there isn't then I can prove my point and be right
So uh what are they added dangers with snorting adderall? any>?
So uh because I only snort adderall now not a lot though only around 80-120mg daily I know there is a little tiny bird paw of nose damage snorting adderall but is there any more? hopefully there isn't then I can prove my point and be right
So uh what are they added dangers with snorting adderall? any>?