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My girlfriend wasn't really impressed until the 4th date.

Arent we all taught to play it cool and not show too much interests when we first meet someone we dig?
Like "wait three days before calling" after meeting and shit like that?
 
6am-64-14m said:
Arent we all taught to play it cool and not show too much interests when we first meet someone we dig?
Like "wait three days before calling" after meeting and shit like that?
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This depends on your age/generation. My daughter's 21 and she & her friends are so savvy. They also have more freedom than we did thanks to the LGBT+ movement, so if a guy messes them around they just hook up with each other lol.

Well if course it's not that simplistic and she leans toward hetero, but is much more open to relationships with women than I ever was. So the "treat em mean keep em keen" strategy isn't as effective.

It also depends on how delusional serious they are about having a relationship with you. I need that stuff like I need a hole in the head and I'm absolutely straight-up with men about what I want. So it's not a good strategy with some 40+ year olds 😊


mtu mwendawazimu said:
I'm often bad at taking a hint.
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😂 You and 99% of the male species. I think if you truly enjoy a woman's company and aren't thinking with your dick, you can't go too wrong.

Never be clingy and obsessive, but saying "hey I like you, do you wanna hang out again?" is fine. She might be a bitch and use that against you, but in the long run you really don't need a bitch.

Females are generally very intuitive and know if you're just trying to get into their pants. Lots are also very insecure though (like I was) and they'll let you, but that's not what they really want.

People just need people and *friendship* is so important. The whole "friendzone" concept makes me sick.. Like being friends with a woman is some kind of chore. Stemming from this is the Nice Guy who thinks if he puts enough "nice" in, sex is sure to come out sooner or later 🙄

Sounds like you're doing good though! 👍

 
Also, with women (and just people in general) *never* mistake kindness for weakness or stupidity. This seems to be very common and is a cardinal sin in my book.

☺️
 
AbbeyLee said:
Also, with women (and just people in general) *never* mistake kindness for weakness or stupidity. This seems to be very common and is a cardinal sin in my book.

☺️
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Totally-totally.

That misconception can not only make you the weak one, but will give you a very cynical and largely unrealistic perspective on life
 
mtu mwendawazimu said:
Totally-totally.

That misconception can not only make you the weak one, but will give you a very cynical and largely unrealistic perspective on life
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I read this thing ages ago about how the biggest badasses are those people who've lived lives of crime or drugs or whatever shady stuff, but retained their kindness and morals.

It was about George Jung (the guy Johnny Depp played in Blow). He dealt with the likes of Pablo Escobar and finally got out of jail in 2014 (I see he died in 2021). But by all accounts he was still a decent guy.. And in jail that can mean life or death I think.

Speaking of which, I'm about to watch Chopper again ☺️ He made it out of prison (while other members of the Melbourne underground had their skulls bashed in within a couple of years).

He wasn't a saint obviously, but he was selective about his victims. He also had a great sense of humour. He died of liver cancer and they offered him a transplant but he said give it to a kid or someone more deserving.

 
I've always been pretty transparent about what I want. I certainly am not one to usually impress on first time meeting, my friends are very aware of this and I definitely rub off on people over time for whatever that means or is worth. Like, rarely do people like me less as they get to know me.

In saying that, when I met my gf 7+ years ago I had it in my mind I was ready for a long term life partner and that is what I was looking for. I didn't advertise that though, and had been 'off the market' for a year or two.

The very first girl I met after making that decision was the one I ended up with and is totally awesome in every way. Love at first sight? Not really. But I could tell she was a keeper probably by end of our 2nd date. Some people you just click with and can really communicate. I think that can be hard to develop so if you have that right from the start then it's a great foundation, and we did.

Sometimes the stars align and we had a whole bunch of little weird tests over those few dates just by 'chance' that kind of showed where we were at in our attitudes towards life. I think that really helped.

But yeah if I didn't feel some kind of 'something' on even a first date then move on. Maybe if I lived somewhere really remote with limited options I'd give a bit more of an investment.
 
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I've usually decided whether I like them before I go on the first date, since much 'meeting' in the gay world is often done online. This has plusses and minuses. On the one hand, I usually impress very easily IRL because I understand intuitively how to read people and give them what they want. But online you're just one of a million options and can easily get lost in the ether, so that technique isn't particularly effective. So I'll give them lots of chances to demonstrate some kind of connection, but they usually haven't the stamina or interest to return the favor.
 
mtu mwendawazimu said:
But I feel like I've heard your strategy before.
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Not just me it's a US thing (or was) that may or may not be a "thing" anymore cause devices have had major changes in how we relate to others these days.
But you are correct in your recall: I use to get more attention from being "aloof" in situations where everyone else were like dogs in heat. Used to.... My younger years - pre SO/wife.
 
6am-64-14m said:
Not just me it's a US thing (or was) that may or may not be a "thing" anymore cause devices have had major changes in how we relate to others these days.
But you are correct in your recall: I use to get more attention from being "aloof" in situations where everyone else were like dogs in heat. Used to.... My younger years - pre SO/wife.
Click to expand...

I mean, you don't want to seem desperate. This one's always weird for me. But pretty much every girl I've ever known or been with knew I had other girls or at least was being hit up by other girls. The exceptions to that, who at the time were the only girl I was dating/hooking up with and knew this, were way more difficult to get time with and looking back, definitely changed the vibe for the worse.

Whatever it is, for chicks I've known anyway it seems the majority are more interested if other women are interested.
 
I think it’s quite hard to recover from someone’s initial view of you. If they don’t view you as a potential romantic partner I’m not sure if “convincing ” them after a few dates will end in your favor.

I actually have been thinking about this quite a bit the last couple days… I was just on a university sponsored camping trip last week. Met a really cool girl. We hit it off pretty quickly. Or at least I thought we were ?

I worked up the nerve to ask her out to coffee yesterday and she said that she would like to get to know me and that we can go “as friends”

To me that pretty much signals that she is not interested in any sort of romantic relationship. You’d think she wouldn’t qualify her response with “as friends” if she was right ?

So supposing I even go on 4 dates with this girl, will that truly change her perspective on me ? I’m not really sure. But I will admit I’m not particularly hopeful

Ok with my own personal ramble aside I guess I’ll answer the OP now

I’ve only had one SO for any significant length of time, and even that was only 6 months.

I was never awe struck with this girl. It was fun being with her, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t think I can say I truly saw a future with her. And I knew this from date # 1 or 2 if I’m being completely honest

I ended up breaking up with her. She was laying a lot of responsibility on me with regards to her mental health. I was like a comfort teddy bear/shitty therapist. If I had seen a future with this girl maybe I wouldve embraced that. But I just couldn’t commit to that with her so I broke it off.

I really don’t think it about much at all tbh. But I know that she is still deeply troubled from the breakup. At least according to the mutual friends we had. So i guess on her end, it ended pretty badly.

I think those gut feelings on the first few dates often ring true
 
@thegreenhand

First impressions are apparently extremely important. I've heard a lot about this as well.

The fact that you have "your foot in the door", though - that's huge. She obviously hasn't ruled you out yet. Many friend situations I've known to develop over time. It may not happen over night, and I wouldn't invest too much into her at the moment, but if she sees you are consistent, honest, make her feel secure, things like that, she may learn to find your idiosyncrasies endearing
 
True, the foot in the door definitely helps

I suppose it’s possible she is just being cautious ? Idk I guess we’ll find out. She is on a trip for the next two weeks she said, so for now I just sit around and wait lol

I asked one of my best friends for advice about it yesterday. She’s actually my college bestie’s girlfriend (and we have become great friends as a result) so I normally go to her for girl advice as there’s no judgment there and she really is the only best friend I have who is a girl.

She was of the opinion that “this bitch got no right” and that it essentially is setting me up to fail.

This may have just been my friend’s way of trying to console me, i.e. by painting the girl’s actions as not cool. But she does have a point… You’d think she could at least give me a proper shot on the first date (during which she will be getting free coffee) and not entirely kill my confidence with the “as friends” line

Who knows lol, now I’m just venting. Sorry for hijacking the thread
 
thegreenhand said:
You’d think she could at least give me a proper shot on the first date (during which she will be getting free coffee) and not entirely kill my confidence with the “as friends” line
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That is interesting to me as well, being a coffee lover.

As I get older I've come to learn that it's really, really hard to know with a good amount of certainly what other people are thinking and going through. That said, body language can be very telling. We can usually rule things out based on body language etc, but it's hard to know what the true underlying reasons actually are.

She could have sensed that you are into her and wanted to set the pace slower, she could have been hurt before and being cautious as you mentioned, she could have just been fucking with you or woke up in a weird mood or maybe, not to get grim, her boyfriend recently passed away and she's not over it.

But dude, don't let that word "friends" stop you from being you and trying to get what you want.

Like I said, you don't need to invest 100% into someone who's not matching your level of investment, but I think this is hardly a reason to give up.

Just my 2 cents
 
I know on an objective level that it’s impossible to know how others feel (unless they explicitly tell you, but even that can be misinterpreted tbh)

But that doesn’t stop me from making those sorts of assumptions based on things like body language. I am usually fully aware when someone is flirting with me , and that’s what I thought was going on here. Hence why i asked her out.

All of those reasons you listed are perfectly plausible explanations, and I probably should give her the benefit of the doubt. Still feels shitty to see that response tho

At the very least I won’t spend the next 4-6 months kicking myself over not shooting my shot and wondering what could’ve been. Done that before too many times

Thanks mtu, I actually feel a lot better after our exchange here
 
AbbeyLee said:
Also, with women (and just people in general) *never* mistake kindness for weakness or stupidity. This seems to be very common and is a cardinal sin in my book.

☺️
Click to expand...
Goes the other way round too. Plenty of girls think you're a wuss or a doormat if you're 'too nice'.

Also I find it infuriating if the person can't seem to make their mind up what the fuck they want from you, and I've had that issue. One second you're getting complaints about not listening to their problems, then when you do you're suddenly not manly enough, and you just become their emotional dumping ground while they go fuck some other bugger.

In my opinion the trouble with a lot of women is that the kind of man they like to have sex with isn't the kind they'd want a long-term relationship with.

As for the 'friend zone' thing you mentioned in your other post, I kinda get you but I also think you're missing the point. It's definitely not a 'chore' to be friends with a woman, I've had some great female friends but the point is I didn't have a thing for any of them in the first place. Being offered 'merely' friendship is a let-down if you have a thing for that person and were hoping for something else. 'Cause let' s face it, if all you want is some company and someone to hang out with, you can do that with your same-sex friends. If you're spending time with a cute member of the opposite sex OF COURSE you fucking wanna get laid in most cases.
 
TheUltimateFixx said:
In my opinion the trouble with a lot of women is that the kind of man they like to have sex with isn't the kind they'd want a long-term relationship with.
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That's interesting. I think I tend to agree.

It's really a balance. That goes for a lot of things in life.

I think, women want security both in the sense of finding someone who can "protect" them and have their back, but also someone loving who can make them feel special.

Sex is part of the equation, but doesn't necessarily shine light on the softer qualities of the guy, that may not be as important during no strings sex, but definitely important in a long term relationship
 
AbbeyLee said:
People just need people and *friendship* is so important. The whole "friendzone" concept makes me sick.. Like being friends with a woman is some kind of chore.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a misogynistic concept, there's nothing more irritating than a man whinging about someone who thinks he's her friend not wanting to sleep with him. Either (a) be straightforward and tell her what you really want, then stop seeing her if she has no interest; or (b) just enjoy the friendship and be a good friend to her even if it's not everything you want. I thought in terms of "friendzones", too, but I realized it was misogynistic and immature by my late teens.
 
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