whiteroom67
Bluelighter
Alright everyone I have been meaning to start this thread for awhile and have finally found the time and motivation to do it. My experiential story is far from over, but I may as well get started. This may be a little long, but for those of you who have been, currently are, or possibly may in the future be addicted to oxy or other opiates, it would behoove you to read my experience here, as I personally feel it contains some valuable info.
To start a small background. I've been on and off opiates for several years now, with oxy being my all-time favorite (even topping heroin, but I've never IV'd so I can't say I know what that is like). Anyway this is hopefully my last and final detox as I am determined to stay off of opiates once and for all (Kratom notwithstanding).
This past detox has been quite the interesting, albeit unpleasant, experience. In the past year, since my last detox, I discovered Kratom. Oh the loves and joys of my sweet little trickster Kratom. I loved it. In stark contrast to actual opiates, I actually found it to be self-regulating. If I took to much, it would just increase the side effects and get shitty. If I started taking it too frequently, I would feel my body start to stagnate and it would be easy to cut back and take short breaks. I thought I had found what I was looking for. Well, eventually, I got bored and lonely and depressed, like I always do, despite whether or not I am using any other substances at the time. I started oxy again. I was able to keep it sort of under control, and limit my use to the point where my withdrawals were minimum. Unfortunately my body is at the point now where if I use for more than 2 days, I will withdraw. Of course that happened, but that's also part of what kept me in check - a constant reminder of what was to come if I didn't listen to what it was telling me. Well, it still got bad. And then I stopped for a week and I felt better. Then it got a little worse again. And then a little better. This went on for a few months from late 2013 to early 2014. Well, turns out I needed surgery again. AGAIN. Third year in a row. Nothing major, but annoying nonetheless. So I went, got a script for percocet. Told the doc my tolerance was high and it wasn't enough. Got another script for pure oxy. Downed those like candy too. Around the clock - probably about 100 mgs of oxy or so a day. All while at the same time, you guessed it, chugging Kratom to potentiate. And taking grapefruit juice and magnesium and Tagamet to potentiate the potentiator. And I would take antacids to potentiate the potentiator of the potetiator. It was glorious. Every day was just another pocket of light embraced within the blissful embryonic fluid of Papaveraceae. Well of course it had to end, I knew this and I thought I was ready. When the time came, only about 2 weeks after starting my 'round-the-clock script, I cut out the oxy - finished the script, but UPPED the Kratom exponentially to cover the withdrawals - probably about 4 huge heaping teaspoons of powder 4 times a day or so (Red Vein Kali - my favorite and what feels like to me the strongest - even moreso than Maeng Da), mixed with the potentiators of the potentiators and so on and so forth...
When I cut the oxy out I felt some withdrawal, but it was totally manageable with the Kratom. "Wow," I thought, "this is great, now all I have to do is cut out the Kratom dose by dose like I always have and I'll be off in no time." And I was on plain leaf too - never messed with extracts, so I figured now I was in the clear.
Oh how wrong I was.
I cut out ONE of my 4 doses, while at the same time switching to Bali. I also started measuring my doses to keep track of how much I was taking so I could accurately taper.
Oh God the horror. It. Was. HORRIFIC. Worse than any other feeling of withdrawal I had been through, and I had been through a lot.
Here is the key people... quitting Kratom on its own, and quitting Kratom after using it to get off of opiates, are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FUCKING ANIMALS.
Quitting Kratom on it's own had always been easy. I would cut out one dose, wait a few days, then another dose, and so on. A few days of discomfort, but nothing a little phenibut, healthy eating and exercise couldn't take care of.
This? No. It was like the worst oxy withdrawal I ever felt, coupled with a Kratom withdrawal that was what seemed to be 10x worse than any Kratom withdrawal I had experienced before it. And this was from cutting out one dose! And switching to a weaker type of course. I knew I would have to taper slowly after this. I wanted to go back up, but after a couple days I said no, I have to stay. I was determined, I stuck with it, waiting for my mind and body to stabilize. Well. here's the kicker: it never did.
That's right, my body NEVER stabilized after 2 weeks of waiting. And at this point I was back at work - still having panic attacks and suicidal depression. I literally felt PSYCHOTIC. NOTE: Psychosis is a VERY REAL Kratom withdrawal symptom that is truly brought to fruition when directly connected with a true opiate withdrawal. Along with the chills, sweats, restlessness and everything else.EVERYBODY knew something was up. I had to take more again. So I did. But now get this, within a couple days yeah I felt better, but not really that much better. I was still withdrawing even after upping my dose back up! What the fuck?! I knew I had to get off as quickly as possible, that I had to get ALL of it out, but I was torn on how to do it. So this time I cut my dose in half. THE SAME FUCKING THING HAPPENED. Now I'm starting to panic. What the hell was going on? My body should be able to stabilize. This can't be happening. Why didn't it stabilize? Well, I don't really know why. I know that Kratom has a unique mix of alkaloids, agonists and antagonists, so maybe that had something to do with it. I was crying everyday now, not just because of the withdrawal directly causing it, but because I was so frustrated that I couldn't even taper. The withdrawal was THAT powerful. Cold turkey was out of the question. There was no way. I couldn't take more time off of work. This is a great job, I'm a supervisor, I hadn't even been there a year, I didn't yet quality for FMLA and I was already out for a month because of the surgery I had just had. I started to taper again...
1 gram per WEEK. And even THAT hurt, a LOT. But it was bearable... barely. But after a couple of weeks, I noticed the same thing... while it would get a little better by the end of the week, my body still never fully stabilized between each taper week. By this point it had been about 4 weeks and I was just starting to accept the fact that withdrawal was my life. I didn't want to use any benzos because I realized the withdrawal wasn't getting better anyway and then I knew I would come out probably still not able to get off of Kratom, along with a newfound benxo addiction.
I now understood this was because taking the oxy around the clock had gotten my body addicted to it fully, and so even long after stopping it, while my body detoxed form some of it, the Kratom simply MAINTAINED a majority of my oxy dependence, you see because they both affect some of the same receptors, specifically the mu and delta opioid receptors. So even though I had previously taken the amount of Kratom I was taking and was easily able to stop, this time, it was simply DELAYING my oxy withdrawal, while still keeping me dependent on Kratom at the same time. I was happy I figured this out, and this is a point that should be noted to anyone planning on attempting to use Kratom to detox from oxy or any other opiates - but I was still freaking out because I didn't know what the fuck to do about it. I called people, I talked to doctors, treatment centers. Nobody even fucking heard of Kratom. I seriously contemplated suicide. It was so fucking painful, and it felt hopeless... and I felt stuck because my withdrawal was never ending. I could never actually bring myself to commit suicide though. I HAD to figure out a way. I wouldn't give up. FUCK YOU DRUGS. I am done.
So then I came across something that to me was a godsend. THIS website. Bluelight showed me the light (and it was Blue). Now I had heard of Clonidine, but it's blood-pressure lowering effects had me concerned, since at work I am on the road driving a majority of the day. Something about it just didn't sit right with me if I was to be up and about doing my day-to-day. But then I came across a thread that mentioned a little something called Gabapentin. Long story short, I went to a treatment center where I signed up for IOP (hence another reason why I couldn't take Valium or Xanax for withdrawal - because they drug test), and after telling the practicing nurse there my situation, she was at first reluctant, not having any experience with Kratom, but hooked me up with some Gabapentin under the guise that "she didn't know it was for Kratom". Well at this point I was taking 3 grams of White Vein Borneo in the morning, the same at lunch time, and then 5 grams of Bali at night (all the while still tortuously dying. Well I quit cold turkey the day after reciving my 30 qnty gaba.
No pain.
None.
It was... a miracle.
Day 1 passed... day 2... day 3 I felt the symptoms worsen a little underneath, but no problem... day 4 came and went, day 5...
A little loperimide helped for the first couple of days (normal doses - not the 48 mg crap I hear of people doing). After day 6 I was done with my script. I couldn't believe it. But now there were a few lingering symptoms, my script was done, and PAWS was starting hardcore... horrible cravings, anxiety and depression. It was the PAWS of Kratom mixed with lingering OXY, not Kratom, physical withdrawals. So, I started taking Kratom again, but not as much! And it took care of it. I'm not planning on quitting Kratom, only getting rid of that God-awful oxy dependency it was maintaining, so I can then use Kratom how I originally did. But I still have ways to go. My tolerance still is pretty high, and there are some of those lingering symptoms underneath still. Well I'm getting some more gabapentin, it will have been about a week since I stopped the gaba and started using Kratom again by then time I get the refill. But my body will have MUCH LESS to get rid of this time around, I will be able to spread the gaba out more, and after another 8 or 9 Kratom-free days on GABA, I think I will be right where I'm comfortable with, or close enough.
So I just wanted to tell my story, and let everyone know what happened.
A few points:
- Don't get addicted to oxy. As a matter of fact, don't even fucking do it. Ever.
- Kratom is great to me as it has many oxy benefits while also seeming self-regualting under normal circumstances.
- Kratom does NOT make it easier to withdraw from opiates. It does NOT make it easier to "taper off". It makes it easier to maintain in the sense that it is safer, legal, and probably cheaper, depending on what you're doing (assuming you stay away from extracts), but that's it. So it still may be a good idea depending on your situation.
-Gabapentin was a lifesaver in the end. As the Kratom withdrawal was much shorter than normal oxy withdrawal would be, waiting for the oxy to get out of my system while maintaining on Kratom, considerably shortened withdrawal when I finally did cut the chord and went on the gaba. The gaba took me through 90% of the entire withdrawal as opposed to just "the worst part of it".
I went back on Kratom somewhat even though I really wanted to wait longer before starting again because: I am a pussy. Lol. I had had enough and I don't want to feel withdrawal ever ever again after this. But I am confident because I know most of that oxy level dependency is gone now. I feel my second cycle of gabapentin shall carry me through to the end clearly.
Keep in mind every individual is different and unique, but this was my experience. Oxy? God willing, never again (and I'm an atheist!).
Though I do believe in spirits and alternate dimensions, thanks to Ayahuasca
Any questions or comments and I'll be happy to discuss.
Peace.
To start a small background. I've been on and off opiates for several years now, with oxy being my all-time favorite (even topping heroin, but I've never IV'd so I can't say I know what that is like). Anyway this is hopefully my last and final detox as I am determined to stay off of opiates once and for all (Kratom notwithstanding).
This past detox has been quite the interesting, albeit unpleasant, experience. In the past year, since my last detox, I discovered Kratom. Oh the loves and joys of my sweet little trickster Kratom. I loved it. In stark contrast to actual opiates, I actually found it to be self-regulating. If I took to much, it would just increase the side effects and get shitty. If I started taking it too frequently, I would feel my body start to stagnate and it would be easy to cut back and take short breaks. I thought I had found what I was looking for. Well, eventually, I got bored and lonely and depressed, like I always do, despite whether or not I am using any other substances at the time. I started oxy again. I was able to keep it sort of under control, and limit my use to the point where my withdrawals were minimum. Unfortunately my body is at the point now where if I use for more than 2 days, I will withdraw. Of course that happened, but that's also part of what kept me in check - a constant reminder of what was to come if I didn't listen to what it was telling me. Well, it still got bad. And then I stopped for a week and I felt better. Then it got a little worse again. And then a little better. This went on for a few months from late 2013 to early 2014. Well, turns out I needed surgery again. AGAIN. Third year in a row. Nothing major, but annoying nonetheless. So I went, got a script for percocet. Told the doc my tolerance was high and it wasn't enough. Got another script for pure oxy. Downed those like candy too. Around the clock - probably about 100 mgs of oxy or so a day. All while at the same time, you guessed it, chugging Kratom to potentiate. And taking grapefruit juice and magnesium and Tagamet to potentiate the potentiator. And I would take antacids to potentiate the potentiator of the potetiator. It was glorious. Every day was just another pocket of light embraced within the blissful embryonic fluid of Papaveraceae. Well of course it had to end, I knew this and I thought I was ready. When the time came, only about 2 weeks after starting my 'round-the-clock script, I cut out the oxy - finished the script, but UPPED the Kratom exponentially to cover the withdrawals - probably about 4 huge heaping teaspoons of powder 4 times a day or so (Red Vein Kali - my favorite and what feels like to me the strongest - even moreso than Maeng Da), mixed with the potentiators of the potentiators and so on and so forth...
When I cut the oxy out I felt some withdrawal, but it was totally manageable with the Kratom. "Wow," I thought, "this is great, now all I have to do is cut out the Kratom dose by dose like I always have and I'll be off in no time." And I was on plain leaf too - never messed with extracts, so I figured now I was in the clear.
Oh how wrong I was.
I cut out ONE of my 4 doses, while at the same time switching to Bali. I also started measuring my doses to keep track of how much I was taking so I could accurately taper.
Oh God the horror. It. Was. HORRIFIC. Worse than any other feeling of withdrawal I had been through, and I had been through a lot.
Here is the key people... quitting Kratom on its own, and quitting Kratom after using it to get off of opiates, are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FUCKING ANIMALS.
Quitting Kratom on it's own had always been easy. I would cut out one dose, wait a few days, then another dose, and so on. A few days of discomfort, but nothing a little phenibut, healthy eating and exercise couldn't take care of.
This? No. It was like the worst oxy withdrawal I ever felt, coupled with a Kratom withdrawal that was what seemed to be 10x worse than any Kratom withdrawal I had experienced before it. And this was from cutting out one dose! And switching to a weaker type of course. I knew I would have to taper slowly after this. I wanted to go back up, but after a couple days I said no, I have to stay. I was determined, I stuck with it, waiting for my mind and body to stabilize. Well. here's the kicker: it never did.
That's right, my body NEVER stabilized after 2 weeks of waiting. And at this point I was back at work - still having panic attacks and suicidal depression. I literally felt PSYCHOTIC. NOTE: Psychosis is a VERY REAL Kratom withdrawal symptom that is truly brought to fruition when directly connected with a true opiate withdrawal. Along with the chills, sweats, restlessness and everything else.EVERYBODY knew something was up. I had to take more again. So I did. But now get this, within a couple days yeah I felt better, but not really that much better. I was still withdrawing even after upping my dose back up! What the fuck?! I knew I had to get off as quickly as possible, that I had to get ALL of it out, but I was torn on how to do it. So this time I cut my dose in half. THE SAME FUCKING THING HAPPENED. Now I'm starting to panic. What the hell was going on? My body should be able to stabilize. This can't be happening. Why didn't it stabilize? Well, I don't really know why. I know that Kratom has a unique mix of alkaloids, agonists and antagonists, so maybe that had something to do with it. I was crying everyday now, not just because of the withdrawal directly causing it, but because I was so frustrated that I couldn't even taper. The withdrawal was THAT powerful. Cold turkey was out of the question. There was no way. I couldn't take more time off of work. This is a great job, I'm a supervisor, I hadn't even been there a year, I didn't yet quality for FMLA and I was already out for a month because of the surgery I had just had. I started to taper again...
1 gram per WEEK. And even THAT hurt, a LOT. But it was bearable... barely. But after a couple of weeks, I noticed the same thing... while it would get a little better by the end of the week, my body still never fully stabilized between each taper week. By this point it had been about 4 weeks and I was just starting to accept the fact that withdrawal was my life. I didn't want to use any benzos because I realized the withdrawal wasn't getting better anyway and then I knew I would come out probably still not able to get off of Kratom, along with a newfound benxo addiction.
I now understood this was because taking the oxy around the clock had gotten my body addicted to it fully, and so even long after stopping it, while my body detoxed form some of it, the Kratom simply MAINTAINED a majority of my oxy dependence, you see because they both affect some of the same receptors, specifically the mu and delta opioid receptors. So even though I had previously taken the amount of Kratom I was taking and was easily able to stop, this time, it was simply DELAYING my oxy withdrawal, while still keeping me dependent on Kratom at the same time. I was happy I figured this out, and this is a point that should be noted to anyone planning on attempting to use Kratom to detox from oxy or any other opiates - but I was still freaking out because I didn't know what the fuck to do about it. I called people, I talked to doctors, treatment centers. Nobody even fucking heard of Kratom. I seriously contemplated suicide. It was so fucking painful, and it felt hopeless... and I felt stuck because my withdrawal was never ending. I could never actually bring myself to commit suicide though. I HAD to figure out a way. I wouldn't give up. FUCK YOU DRUGS. I am done.
So then I came across something that to me was a godsend. THIS website. Bluelight showed me the light (and it was Blue). Now I had heard of Clonidine, but it's blood-pressure lowering effects had me concerned, since at work I am on the road driving a majority of the day. Something about it just didn't sit right with me if I was to be up and about doing my day-to-day. But then I came across a thread that mentioned a little something called Gabapentin. Long story short, I went to a treatment center where I signed up for IOP (hence another reason why I couldn't take Valium or Xanax for withdrawal - because they drug test), and after telling the practicing nurse there my situation, she was at first reluctant, not having any experience with Kratom, but hooked me up with some Gabapentin under the guise that "she didn't know it was for Kratom". Well at this point I was taking 3 grams of White Vein Borneo in the morning, the same at lunch time, and then 5 grams of Bali at night (all the while still tortuously dying. Well I quit cold turkey the day after reciving my 30 qnty gaba.
No pain.
None.
It was... a miracle.
Day 1 passed... day 2... day 3 I felt the symptoms worsen a little underneath, but no problem... day 4 came and went, day 5...
A little loperimide helped for the first couple of days (normal doses - not the 48 mg crap I hear of people doing). After day 6 I was done with my script. I couldn't believe it. But now there were a few lingering symptoms, my script was done, and PAWS was starting hardcore... horrible cravings, anxiety and depression. It was the PAWS of Kratom mixed with lingering OXY, not Kratom, physical withdrawals. So, I started taking Kratom again, but not as much! And it took care of it. I'm not planning on quitting Kratom, only getting rid of that God-awful oxy dependency it was maintaining, so I can then use Kratom how I originally did. But I still have ways to go. My tolerance still is pretty high, and there are some of those lingering symptoms underneath still. Well I'm getting some more gabapentin, it will have been about a week since I stopped the gaba and started using Kratom again by then time I get the refill. But my body will have MUCH LESS to get rid of this time around, I will be able to spread the gaba out more, and after another 8 or 9 Kratom-free days on GABA, I think I will be right where I'm comfortable with, or close enough.
So I just wanted to tell my story, and let everyone know what happened.
A few points:
- Don't get addicted to oxy. As a matter of fact, don't even fucking do it. Ever.
- Kratom is great to me as it has many oxy benefits while also seeming self-regualting under normal circumstances.
- Kratom does NOT make it easier to withdraw from opiates. It does NOT make it easier to "taper off". It makes it easier to maintain in the sense that it is safer, legal, and probably cheaper, depending on what you're doing (assuming you stay away from extracts), but that's it. So it still may be a good idea depending on your situation.
-Gabapentin was a lifesaver in the end. As the Kratom withdrawal was much shorter than normal oxy withdrawal would be, waiting for the oxy to get out of my system while maintaining on Kratom, considerably shortened withdrawal when I finally did cut the chord and went on the gaba. The gaba took me through 90% of the entire withdrawal as opposed to just "the worst part of it".
I went back on Kratom somewhat even though I really wanted to wait longer before starting again because: I am a pussy. Lol. I had had enough and I don't want to feel withdrawal ever ever again after this. But I am confident because I know most of that oxy level dependency is gone now. I feel my second cycle of gabapentin shall carry me through to the end clearly.
Keep in mind every individual is different and unique, but this was my experience. Oxy? God willing, never again (and I'm an atheist!).
Though I do believe in spirits and alternate dimensions, thanks to Ayahuasca
Any questions or comments and I'll be happy to discuss.
Peace.
