MXE might be eliminating my nicotine cravings?

[Aetherius Rimor]

I've been experimenting with MXE recently and noticed a pattern. When I start using MXE, my smoking will start slowing down and I'll just quit altogether. First time was a few weeks ago, I went from about a pack a day to quitting, and again I've basically quit. This is with a usage pattern of using about 200mg over the course of 2 to 3 days.

I know the psychological reason for it already, every time I smoke when I'm on MXE, I don't feel any of the effects of smoking. I gradually just stop since the craving disappears from never being fulfilled. After I stop taking MXE for awhile, the cravings are still gone, so I have far more choice in my decision to smoke. After my recent usage of MXE, I've gone down to about 2 cigarettes a day, and have not had one yet today (still deciding on if I even want one).

According to Wikipedia:

Methoxetamine is thought to behave as a NMDA receptor antagonist and dopamine reuptake inhibitor, though it has not been formally profiled pharmacologically.

Nicotine's entry had the following:

By binding to nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, nicotine increases the levels of several neurotransmitters - acting as a sort of "volume control". It is thought that increased levels of dopamine in the reward circuits of the brain are responsible for the apparent euphoria and relaxation, and addiction caused by nicotine consumption.

With what we know about Nicotine, could the current beliefs about how MXE behaves be responsible for what I have experienced?

If not, assuming MXE is also performing other functions than the one's currently speculated, what functions might those be that could cause this reaction?

Has there been any research, or even personal reports, that may contribute to the possibility of MXE having an effect on nicotine cravings?

 

[Amu]

I've been experimenting with MXE recently and noticed a pattern. When I start using MXE, my smoking will start slowing down and I'll just quit altogether. First time was a few weeks ago, I went from about a pack a day to quitting, and again I've basically quit. This is with a usage pattern of using about 200mg over the course of 2 to 3 days.

I know the psychological reason for it already, every time I smoke when I'm on MXE, I don't feel any of the effects of smoking. I gradually just stop since the craving disappears from never being fulfilled. After I stop taking MXE for awhile, the cravings are still gone, so I have far more choice in my decision to smoke. After my recent usage of MXE, I've gone down to about 2 cigarettes a day, and have not had one yet today (still deciding on if I even want one).

According to Wikipedia:



Nicotine's entry had the following:



With what we know about Nicotine, could the current beliefs about how MXE behaves be responsible for what I have experienced?

If not, assuming MXE is also performing other functions than the one's currently speculated, what functions might those be that could cause this reaction?

Has there been any research, or even personal reports, that may contribute to the possibility of MXE having an effect on nicotine cravings?

Certain people who are addicted indeed have reduced levels of dopamine, which MXE could be raising to an appropriate level, do note that excessive dopamine does not reduce impulsivity as it is an inverted U relationship between D1 receptor functioning in the prefrontal cortex and impulse control, enhancing said functioning just slightly will reduce the "noise" signalling in the PFC, improving the signal to noise ratio, and improving your ability to stop smoking, and I think because MXE has NMDA antagonistic properties it prevents dopamine transmission from getting too high, or does it? Either way, too much MXE might not control your smoking habit as effectively. I bet if you replaced MXE with 5 mg of methylphenidate you would experience the same improvement

 

[negrogesic]

In theory, it 'might'. However, you may have difficulty finding research that explores the relationship. I have not personally experienced nicotine withdrawal, but I am rather certain that there is a significant difference between having 'almost quit' and total cessation.

One concern: Upon total cessation, the emotional lability caused by the withdrawal may 'conflict' with MXE-induced psychotomimesis ......

 

[Aetherius Rimor]

If I end up getting sucked back into nicotine, I'll definitely give methylphenidate a shot and report on results. Thanks for the thoughts.

Negrogesic, could you clarify what you mean in your concern please?

Elaboration on my situation:

My nicotine addiction has confused me enough already, I've done 2 week coke binges (~.5g a day) and just stopped because I got bored, did 20 to 30mg of hydrocodone a day for a few weeks, done same thing with benzos. Nothing has ever given me a craving, or the desire spend money I shouldn't be spending, except nicotine.

I smoked my first time when I was 23, and smoked every day since except for one quit attempt where some shroom trips + a girl got me to quit smoking for 3 months, and the recent use of MXE which has gotten rid of cravings or at least strongly reduces them. Failed after 3 months the first time due to staying awake for 36 hours, then having to make a 3 hour drive to be at work on time. Half way there was starting to fall asleep at the wheel and got a huge craving to smoke. Smoking woke me up, and got me addicted again.

New Question:

Are there other systems other than the dopamine system that affect addiction to substances that nicotine interacts with? Dopamine is the only one I've been aware of, and I know most of the drugs I haven't gotten addicted to interact with it as well, hence the confusion on how I so easily get addicted to nicotine, but nothing else.

 

[Coolwhip]

Oral fixation, instant gratification, cheap and always available, socially acceptable, no hangover, used from morning to night under normal circumstances..it's no wonder to me.

If you did any of the drugs mentioned from wake to sleep, everyday, for months on end..don't worry, you'd be addicted.

 

[sekio]

I thought MXE (as well as ketamine, and DXM) were antinicotinic drugs similar to that ugly pyrazine (varencicline) and Wellbutrin... in theory they should decrease the effects of nicotine.

MXE itself also encorages dopamine levels to rise, maybe you're just substituting one for the other.

 

[ColtDan]

dunno if this could be connected but found it eliminated my craving for mephedrone when i drink alcohol, used to have a problem with mephedrone cravings when drunk, it was messing me up, so it massively benefited me and helped me stop doing meph.

 

[sekio]

I think that's more of MXE substituting as a dopaminergic and intoxicant than any magic caused by NMDA or what-not. It's relatively easy to do when one of the drugs it's replacing is illegal, impure, or both...

Also it seems there is a certain subset of people, "the 1/3" if you've ever read the DXM FAQ, that truly enjoy dissociative drugs and derive some sort of transcendent pleasure from their usage where others would simply feel poisoned and confused. Maybe NMDA is involved to some extent in this, or maybe it's just the result of an introverted or detached personality. I don't kow.

 

[Nagelfar]

Also it seems there is a certain subset of people, "the 1/3" if you've ever read the DXM FAQ, that truly enjoy dissociative drugs and derive some sort of transcendent pleasure from their usage where others would simply feel poisoned and confused. Maybe NMDA is involved to some extent in this, or maybe it's just the result of an introverted or detached personality. I don't kow.

I speculate, but nothing beyond speculate, that this is more likely not a type of person's biology or physiology so much as their learned preset habits and mindset that they condition themselves to being in, consciously or not, when taking them.

Each and everybody, with very few exceptions I would like to presume, is open to such experiences. Much like how many do not derive the euphoria from stimulants until they figure how to get into that specific mode of comporting their disposition. To one the type which is conducive to dopaminergic subjective enhancement that the substance provides.

 

[sekio]

I speculate, but nothing beyond speculate, that this is more likely not a type of person's biology or physiology so much as their learned preset habits and mindset that they condition themselves to being in, consciously or not, when taking them.

Exactly my thoughts, I've got a fairly wacky idea that like of dissociatives is correlated to myers-briggs personality types.

 

[Aetherius Rimor]

Oral fixation, instant gratification, cheap and always available, socially acceptable, no hangover, used from morning to night under normal circumstances..it's no wonder to me.

If you did any of the drugs mentioned from wake to sleep, everyday, for months on end..don't worry, you'd be addicted.

Very true, had not considered that. Smoking is so accepted and casual, that I don't even think of it as a drug until the cravings kick in, or I haven't had it in awhile and have to sit down to a head rush. I am very cautious to discipline myself with everything else, but I never tried to moderate my smoking until it was too late.

I thought MXE (as well as ketamine, and DXM) were antinicotinic drugs similar to that ugly pyrazine (varencicline) and Wellbutrin... in theory they should decrease the effects of nicotine.

MXE itself also encorages dopamine levels to rise, maybe you're just substituting one for the other.

Ah, that was the word I was hoping to discover, "anti-nicotinic". Was wondering what the classification was of drugs that nicotine receptors.

Just did a quick search and found this:

DXM and dextrorphan noncompetitively block alpha3beta4 neuronal nicotinic acetylcholine receptors; other nicotinic receptor subtypes may also be affected by these drugs.

So it appears DXM blocks some at least. Since MXE is also a dissociative, I suppose it does lend credibility to it possibly also blocking some of the receptors.

---

It's been a week, and the timeline of smoking has been like this (made no effort to quit).

Day 1 (day of MXE) Stopped smoking after several attempts. Was smoking out of habit, but I couldn't feel anything when smoking, so I felt like there was no point to continue. Quit for the rest of the day.

Day 2: Had one cigarette at night, no cravings through out the day. Didn't hit me as hard as I'd anticipated.

Day 3-5: Went to about 2 to 3 cigarettes a day.

Day 6: Smoke about 5

Day 7: Smoked 4 so far. Probably will go smoke again in a few hours.

---

With information/speculation presented so far, I think it's at least useful for me to use it for quitting, should I decide I really want to.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[negrogesic]

Also it seems there is a certain subset of people, "the 1/3" if you've ever read the DXM FAQ, that truly enjoy dissociative drugs and derive some sort of transcendent pleasure from their usage where others would simply feel poisoned and confused. Maybe NMDA is involved to some extent in this, or maybe it's just the result of an introverted or detached personality. I don't kow.

I am puzzled by this as well, particularly when it comes to the habitual 'street' users of PCPs-variants. The street drug is rather expensive, the clandestine synthesis is relatively difficult (at least, compared to methamphetamine), and one would think that the precursors involved could be put to 'better use'. And unlike the erowid reading 19-year old college freshman, the habitual street user of the drug is unlikely to be searching for some sort of entheogenic experience. Personally, I did not care for ketamine's psychedelic properties, and the only way to derive 'pleasure' without significant psychedelic 'noise' was through intravenous administration. This is however extremely dangerous and should never be attempted.

 

[sekio]

Day 1 (day of MXE) Stopped smoking after several attempts. Was smoking out of habit, but I couldn't feel anything when smoking, so I felt like there was no point to continue. Quit for the rest of the day.

I'd say this is pretty solid evidence of anti-nicotinic action.

PCP compounds for quitting smoking, now this is something I can get behind. People think Zyban or whatever the fuck that pyrazine was is bad and causes rage... wait till you see a juiced up guy on 20mg of 3-meo-pcp who's come off a 3 pack a day habit...

I am puzzled by this as well, particularly when it comes to the habitual 'street' users of PCPs-variants. The street drug is rather expensive, the clandestine synthesis is relatively difficult (at least, compared to methamphetamine),

Well, (admittedly crude) meth can be (apparently) manufactured in a soda pop bottle, so that puts almost every drug as being harder to make. It's considerbaly easier to make PCP or derivatives than, say, fentanyl... but I digress. I'm no expert in the subject but I think that the (at least according to my precocnceptions) rate of dissociative usage may simply be higher among lower social classes as PCP becomes a 'nouveau alcohol' - an escape from one's problems but minus the hangover...

 

[Aetherius Rimor]

I'm no expert in the subject but I think that the (at least according to my precocnceptions) rate of dissociative usage may simply be higher among lower social classes as PCP becomes a 'nouveau alcohol' - an escape from one's problems but minus the hangover...

Here's my view on dissociative use.

DXM appears to be the choice of minors due to ease of access.

PCP appears to be used by lower social classes as you say. I never even knew anyone who knew someone who'd done PCP, until I started talking to people from that class. Most appear to not even know it's PCP, calling it "wet" or "embalming fluid".

MXE appears to be the choice for anyone who has something to lose by getting caught.

Ketamine seems to be the choice for almost everyone else.

 

[Aetherius Rimor]

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...ose?p=9582530&highlight=nicotinic#post9582530

Atara said the following:

Methoxetamine is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, a nicotinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist, an uncompetitive NMDA channel blocker, a dopamine D2 receptor agonist, and a mu-opioid agonist, according to the current SAR as well as subjective reports consistent with this effect profile.

I asked him for something I could cite, that mentioned Nicotinic antagonism, and he gave me this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arylcyclohexylamine#Pharmacology

which states

Arylcyclohexylamines varyingly possess NMDA receptor antagonist,[2][3] dopamine reuptake inhibitor,[4] and μ-opioid receptor agonist[5] properties. Additionally, σ receptor agonist,[6] nACh receptor antagonist,[7] and D2 receptor agonist[8] actions have been reported for some of these agents.

The citation for the nACh receptor antagonist portion is:

^ Eterović, V. A.; Lu, R.; Eakin, A. E.; Rodríguez, A. D.; Ferchmin, P. A. (1999). "Determinants of phencyclidine potency on the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors from muscle and electric organ". Cellular and molecular neurobiology 19 (6): 745–757. PMID 10456235.

-----

So with the possibility for arylcyclohexylamines to behave as nACh antagonists, and reports of MXE lowering/eliminating cravings for nicotine (especially reports like mine not tainted by confirmation bias), I'd say that MXE has a high probability of being an nACh antagonist.

 

[Shameful]

I get the same effect from DXM. When I take DXM I have absolutely no desire to smoke, and if I do smoke, the experience is far less pleasurable.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

I can verify the same effect on nicotine reward and desire to smoke.

Whilst taking MXE daily, I felt absolutely bugger all desire to smoke. I went from a pretty heavy smoker to smoking at most 1-2 daily. Didn't even bother with those much of the time, at first, I would roll one ready to smoke after administration, along with a couple more doses of MXE, avoiding doing so before, due to the vasoconstrictive effects of smoking.

Immediately after locating a vein and shooting up (the MXE), to begin with, I would go ahead and light up, but after the first couple of days, I realised that I didn't really want one much at all, smoke all of half a rollup before putting it out. Even tasting the MXE, a few moments after use, in the short time it took from arm to tongue is more rewarding whilst on the drug than smoking. (I find that using MXE via IV I can taste it just the same as I could from either the nasal drip, or licking some off my finger)

After a few days, those few smokes I did have were purely out of reflex, if that makes sense. Ended up thinking 'why the fuck am I smoking this, when I don't want it to begin with, and feel no withdrawals if I don't', so stopped almost completely, while using MXE.

 

[Nexus298]

As a child I used DXM every chance I could get my hands on it. There was a small period where I smoked but could always tell DXM made any desire to smoke fade.

 

[Isidor]

I have the same experience. Smoking does very little for me for several days after using MXE. And I won't get cravings for it, either. I will still smoke occasionally, and sometimes I even smoke *more* because I don't feel it does anything, so I can as well smoke again shortly after I'd just smoked and not worry that it increases my addiction. Just to try it out, I quit smoking cold turkey a few days ago and felt almost no cravings. At the pub I had a few cigs of my friend's pack, but this didn't do very much at all, and I hadn't taken mxe for several days. Sounds weird, I know, but there you have it.