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MXE Blackouts - other experiences

onetwocatpoo

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Joined
Mar 20, 2014
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My friend took MXE for the first time at the weekend and found he had blackouts and time lapses, he also found he went totally loopy, he can't fully remember hallucinating but was doing and acting strangely. :?

He frequently as Ketamine and has no problems with this but took MXE and found that he has time that he can't account for or is told things happened during this time that he doesn't remember.

He has never blacked out before and wondered if anyone had the same issues, he currently takes SSRI's (citalopram) and wonders if this is a contributing factor. He's usually very careful with mixing substances with SSRI's and knows that Ketamine and SSRI's are okay but he should steer clear of MDxx and other things that could lead to serotonin syndrome.

Any feedback would be appreciated, it's just strange as this hasn't happened before.
 
I often black out on MXE and there is no doubt in my mind that this is partially because I've just spent an hour in hell.

I don't remember my MXE holes other than they absolutely scare the shit out of me. It's pretty common to not remember dissociatives IME. I never remember ketamine these days but I always used to.

I find it's because I take too much in one go. Maybe it's the same for your friend?
 
I've taken mxe, gone into a deep trance/hole (whatever you want to call it) then come to; completely unaware I'd taken anything.
i was rather certain I;
a) either hadn't dosed yet
or
b) had passed out for the entire trip, and woken up thinking i was completely sober. Which was wrong. My motorskils were fine and I had a seemingly clear head. Fully believed I was "straight" (but in hindsight, clearly not - I'd just taken more in a single dose than my tolerance could accommodate. No idea how long I was in dissociative dreamland for, but it felt like seconds.

The fact that I'd just had a total out of body experience involving a carved stone staircase and a cave of ancient rituals in some faraway land (that seemed more real than my apartment) didnt really occur to me at the time, oddly enough.
Music sounded normal - if a little dull - and even my perception and motor skills seemed fine. Not wonky, not a damn thing!
I was bothered by this at the time.

Basically I took too much; an anaesthetic dose after a long tolerance break.
Really bad, because I proceded to (stupidly) take more and spent the next few hours trying to work out what day it was, whether it was day or night (the clock didnt help; neither did looking out the front door; I was convinced it was early sunday afternoon, when in fact it was just after midnight on a Sunday morning. The darkness didnt clear things up, nor did the "1:05 am" [or whatever time it was] on my phone. Just insane, in a pointless way).

Was too confusing to be enjoyable or enlightening and my re-dosing was haphazard, poorly considered and a complete waste of (what for me) has become a very scare material.
Fucking dangerous, really.
Lesson learned - dissociatives are only as safe as the actions of the user. And I completely lost track of my logical thought processes on this occasion.

Oh, and no other substances were in the mix either.
It was actually the first time I'd taken mxe on its own (without a generous dose of a 4-sub tryptamine of some sort) for well over a year.

Quite a sharp reminder of how wild and 'psychedelic' - to use the term loosely - methoxetamine can be.
I always approached it with caution, and if I ever come across it again, will do even more so.

Magical stuff if you get the sweet spot (dose, set+setting etc) though - but slightly scary in it's own way.

As Tranced says above; sounds like "two much in one go".


To get to that "sweet spot", I highly recommend you titrate the dose
Work your way there; it's not like LSD where instant tolerance sets in and the initial dose sets the level of your experience.

The safest, and most reliable way to get 'where you want to go' is to dose in small to moderate increments (depending on individual's response to mxe generally, the potency of the batch and tolerance. this may vary considerably) and wait ~40-60 minutes and seeing how you go from there. If you feel like taking more - take a (pre-determined; preferably already weighed out)

Start low, if it is unfamiliar territory. I think this is especially true for those accustomed to taking ketamine.


I find when my favourite records start sounding completely unfamiliar, it is time to lie down with all the lights off and watch the music as it orbits my disembodied consciousness.

Mmmmmmmm. Sort of glad it's appearance in my life was fleeting, but I do hope we meet again some day.
Listening to vinyl was like experiencing music on a molecular level or something; every single element of the sound was laid bare. Anyway...enough reminiscing!

Play safe :)
 
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I haven't done enough MXE to hole really but with ketamine there is a certain point I need to hit to remember my holes, if I overshoot that mark I usually come to like 8 hours later with my whole baggy gone, once 2 grams gone in a night with no recollection.
I must have came to enough to bust another line then hole again but have no memory of it
 
I was under the impression that "black outs", time lapses, and missing memories were normal with disacociatives. I'm pretty new to MXE, I've only done it 3 times but the last time I'm pretty sure I entered into the "m-hole" or was very very close to it. After my 4th 25mg bump (spaced out throughout the night) I felt a strong urge to lay down and felt the sensation that there was a stream of energy at around my eye level of my head and it was a stream flowing downward. When I shut my eyes, that stream of energy I felt became a flood of images and memories. I could sit up and be right out if the experience and lay back down and go right back into it.
It was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. While this was happening it felt like I was being cradled in the very hands of God. It was truly remarkable.
Anyhoo, I definetly, have blotchy parts in my memories of everything that happened. And I just chalk that up to the fact that it's a disacociative ( seeing it disacociates parts of your brain from communicating with eachother normally), I've read about similar effects from pretty much every dissociative (K, PCP, DXM,MXE). I think it's a normal part of taking disacociatives.
 
A friend of mine who has a lot of experience with ketamine overdid his MXE lines one night and apparently blacked out and smashed his face pretty badly falling over. I saw him a few days after it happened and he looked horrible, gash on his nose, both eyes black and a swollen/bruised face.
I saw this same friend falling over uncontrollably in the snow while we stepped outside for a smoke one night (it may have been the same night that he messed his face up, can't recall) when he had done a bit too much MXE. Another friend and I were just coming down from 2C-B so it was pretty concerning to us. I helped him inside and eventually left to go home, leaving the two of them.
He had little recollection of either events occurring, and only pieced together that he must have fallen face first on the television in his room based on the damage.
 
MXE blackouts are fairly common in my experience.

I've had plenty where I've been arrogant with my dosage, or been on a break and forgot to calculate a tolerance drop. MXE has caused me multiple train wrecks (two actually involving physical trains).

There was a while where I must have been getting bad batches (during an abuse period), and then I got a good batch that just vanished with no memory.

Etizolam and MXE is a bad mix period (I've gone catatonic multiple times).

I can only reiterate what has been said before, titrate your dosages.

If I was to ever use it again, I would say x dosage is my max, then I would divide it into x amount of lines, line them up. hide my baggy (or get someone else to), and then just dose in 30 minute increments.

MXE at a low dose is beautiful experience anyway, put some music on and watch the itunes visualiser, you'll feel your body move to the motion.

I wish I could heed to my own advice, I never do.

I've had the most amazing experiences with MXE, I've rekindled with deceased relatives (hole, my first experience, my best drug experience in life), I've had the most amazing OEV's, out of body experiences, and huge insights into the darker side of the mind. It's the only drug where I've experienced olfactory hallucination (phantosmia?)

Like all dissociatives, there's a sweet spot, overshoot it and you'll feel cheated. But at least with mxe, if you undershoot, you'll still have a good time. I've never been able to find my dose for mxe, it's an unpredictable beast at the best of times for me.

This class of drugs requires the utmost respect and appreciation. Ketamine will immobilise you from doing anything ridiculous, mxe, pcp's, pce's won't.

I learnt to love mxe before I learnt to love ketamine, mxe is my DOC hands down. Ketamine is my safe option, it's consistent, predictable, and I know my sweet spot.
 
This actually may be due to an interaction with SSRI's as MXE, here's a post from someone on DF. It's kinda long so I made it NSFW. Also, ketamine doesn't affect serotonin as strongly as MXE does which is why MXE and monoamine releasers can be dangerous but ket and monoamine releasers, while not completely safe, is a safer option. I'll let someone with a better grasp on pharmacology elaborate.

NSFW:
"Be very, very careful, sir.

I was taking MXE regularly (at least once per week) and started taking 50 mg of sertraline. I stopped MXE for two weeks when I started sertraline in order to let the SSRI get a foothold in my system, so to speak. Then I started taking MXE again (at high doses 100-150 mg) and I experienced memory blackouts.

Blackouts.

As in, 1.5 hours into the trip I knew what was going on and then boom, I did not form any memories over the next 1-2 hours. After three hours of intially taking a dose, I came back to reality, having totally forgotten what I had done or felt that night. The day after I could remember a snapshot of brushing my teeth and exchanging a few words with someone, but that is it. The executive function of the brain basically broke down, I had no recollection of the decisions I made. Luckily I didn't do anything offensive or dangerous to myself or others. People the next day basically told me I just looked "out of it" and I bumped into a few things and went to bed to sleep it off.

I experienced a handful of these blackouts, so please be careful. It's possible that you can safely use a low dose of MXE 20-50 mg with sertralinebut you should eitherhavea trip-sitteror keep yourself in a safe environment where you won't havepeople around (i.e.yourroom atnightbehindclosed doors). If you blackout, you will have little to no ability to hide the fact that you have taken drugs. You will just act bizarrely.

I never experienced blackouts like this when I took MXE and was not on sertraline."

Here's the link to the thread:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177994
 
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I'll just do a quick c/p as I'm about to shoot to bed, but I've had the ACMD report in my bookmarks for a while, It's a good read for anyone who's not seen it.

I just skim read your post, but I'm interested if I've understood you correctly in saying that SSRI's (or sertraline) reduces the risk of blackout? Although MXE has serotonin activity so wouldn't that be a bad combo?

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Taken from here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ata/file/119087/methoxetamine2012.pdf#page=13
 
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No lol, I'm saying that a user from another forum said that combining MXE with sertraline (an SSRI) caused them blackouts. The OP says that the person in question has combined Ketamine with SSRI's with no problem but I was pointing out that MXE affects serotonin more drastically than ket due to stronger re-uptake inhibition? but I'm not sure as I never got into MXE or it's pharmocology therefor I'm gonna let someone with a better understanding of pharmacology see if there should be any reason for contraindications when taking MXE while on SSRI's :)

Edit: So after looking at the graphs, I guess what I was trying to say was that MXE is an SRI while Ket isn't therefore Ketamine should cause less interactions than MXE regading drugs that affect serotonin. Obviously I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to MXE, I was just throwin some stuff out there for others to work with and/or take into consideration.
 
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I had a massive trainwreck on MXE with constant blackouts shifting in and out of consciousness, but i blame it on the fact that i was awake for 40+ hours and had taken 4 XTC pills the night before. Yes that was quite stupid
 
I just want to note, that those graphs from the ACMD report say ketamine has no SERT activity, I later found a paper elsewhere (not from the ACMD) that said ketamine did have SERT activity. I'll try and find that.

I might be mistaken on that though, this report is over a year old, and that's the memory I'm going from.

It might be wise to assume that ketamine does have activity in that regards, so combinations should be taken cautiously (poly drugs usage is something that should be carefully considered before hand, imho).

Addition: CaptainKratom, I skim read your post last night I see what you said originally now. I'd be quite interested to find something that could reduce blackout (or increase memory) during higher doses.

I was always under the assumption that "black outs" were caused mainly by NMDA antagonism. Thus a blackout occurring from lack of signalling.

Mxe blackouts, which can be likened to a catatonic/stupor state, being antagonism only in certain areas relating to consciousness (this is a vague interpretation, not based on anything but my own anecdotal experience/opinion).
 
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I'd be quite interested to find something that could reduce blackout (or increase memory) during higher doses.
Have you tried nootropics? I'm not sure they will reduce blackouts but I've read alot of reports of people taking piracetam to make the experience more lucid however I think it may also kill your buzz a bit, again, not very informed on the subject therefor of little help.

Also, if ketamine does in fact have SERT activity, which I kinda swore it had some, it's definately not as significant as MXE's SERT activity and you'll typically hear mods and other sharp people reccomend ketamine over MXE when it comes to risky combos like for example Ket + MDMA over MXE + MDMA. I'm not sure if combining SRI's (MXE) with SSRI's (AD's) is a recipe for blackouts or what but that post I NSFW'd makes it sound like it wouldn't be a wise combo and it could explain the OP's friends' blackouts and time-lapses.
 
I don't think serotonergic actions have anything to do with it, unless you are experiencing a massive crash like serotonin syndrome I do not think that there is any relationship to cognition and memory. The glutamate and choline system including NMDA receptors are involved in cognition and memory and NDMA antagonism can be directly associated with a cessation of functioning cognitive faculties.

My opinion is that combining something like anti-depressants with MXE might potentiate effects when they are both being broken down by the same enzymes (some CYP P450 I figure), so when the anti-depressants occupy enzymes there might be more MXE to act.
 
Have you tried nootropics?

I take noopept intermittently (month on, month break kind of regiment, but not religiously followed)

I don't use a choline supplement with it, but I do increase consumption of food that contains choline, for example eggs and mushrooms.

My understanding is that the RDA/AI of choline for an adult male is 550mg, with 100g of egg (roughly 2) containing approximately 317mg [1]

My anecdotal opinion is that I've noticed noopept having no influence in regards to the likelihood of an mxe blackout, and that my mxe blackouts are always purely dose related

I skimed through the 3-meo-pcp megathread the other day and someone did mention an anecdotal interaction with noopept and 3-meo-pcp, but I couldn't find what they were referring too.

[1] http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/s...okup=eggs&offset=&format=Full&new=&measureby=

I don't think serotonergic actions have anything to do with it, unless you are experiencing a massive crash like serotonin syndrome I do not think that there is any relationship to cognition and memory.[/QUOTE]

I was under the impression that it was to do with NMDA antagonism, and possibly interaction with Glutamate receptors and as an anticholinergic, is it plausible that MXE could posess anticholinergic properties which would attribute to it.

Here are two quick c/p extracts which may be of interest, they relate to Ketamine Subanesthetic pharmacodynamics.

Extract 1

Subanesthetic doses of ketamine, an N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) antagonist, have a rapid antidepressant effect which lasts for up to 2 weeks. However, the neurobiological mechanism regarding this effect remains unclear.

In the present study, the effects of subanesthetic doses of ketamine on serotonergic systems in conscious monkey brain were investigated.

Five young monkeys underwent four positron emission tomography measurements with [(11)C]-3-amino-4-(2-dimethylaminomethyl-phenylsulfanyl)benzonitrile ([(11)C]DASB) for the serotonin transporter (SERT), during and after intravenous infusion of vehicle or ketamine hydrochloride in a dose of 0.5 or 1.5 mg/kg for 40 min, and 24 h post infusion. Global reduction of [(11)C]DASB binding to SERT was observed during ketamine infusion in a dose-dependent manner, but not 24 h later.

The effect of ketamine on the serotonin 1A receptor (5-HT1A-R) and dopamine transporter (DAT) was also investigated in the same subjects studied with [(11)C]DASB. No significant changes were observed in either 5-HT1A-R or DAT binding after ketamine infusion.

Microdialysis analysis indicated that ketamine infusion transiently increased serotonin levels in the extracellular fluid of the prefrontal cortex. The present study demonstrates that subanesthetic ketamine selectively enhanced serotonergic transmission by inhibition of SERT activity.

This action coexists with the rapid antidepressant effect of subanesthetic doses of ketamine. Further studies are needed to investigate whether the transient combination of SERT and NMDA reception inhibition enhances each other's antidepressant actions.

Abstract taken from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23880871




Extract 2

Ketamine pharmacodynamics
7. Ketamine and related arylcyclohexylamines produce a wide range of effects mediated by a variety of
pharmacological mechanisms. Primarily, they all act as non-competitive antagonists at N-methyl-D-aspartate
(NMDA) receptors where they bind at the so-called PCP site on the NMDA receptor (Anis, 1983; Roth, 2013).
These receptors, which play a critical role in glutaminergically mediated excitatory neurotransmission, are
believed to be the principal molecular targets for the anaesthetic action of ketamine and for its
psychotomimetic properties. Its reported antidepressant activity has also been attributed to this mechanism in
the brain (Zarate, 2006) and its analgesic properties, in part, to the same mechanism in dorsal horn neurons
(Quibell, 2011).

8. Systemic administration of NMDA receptor antagonists such as ketamine is known to increase the release of
dopamine in the nucleus accumbens region of brain (Matulewicz, 2010), an activity which is typically associated
with addiction liability (Cadoni, 2007). In addition to its action on NMDA receptors, ketamine also acts at
dopamine D2 and 5-HT2A receptors (Kapur, 2002; Waelbers, 2013). Activation of 5-HT2A receptors is thought to
be related to perceptual disorders and hallucinations (Dursun, 1992). At the concentrations employed in human
models, ketamine also shows both a stereospecific high-affinity for mu; delta; and for sigma opioid receptors
(for a review see Kapur, 2002) and it also affects monoamine transporters (Nishimura, 1999). The complex
neurochemical profile of ketamine reflect its actions as a dissociative anaesthetic, psychostimulant and
analgesic.

9. Overall, recent studies suggest that ketamine leads to a state of increased glutamatergic transmission, which is
linked to psychotic disturbances (Kraguljac, 2013; Sos, 2013). Ketamine also enhances the descending inhibiting
serotoninergic pathway and may exert antidepressant effects (Mion, 2013), possibly because of the significance
of glutamatergic pathways in depression. Treatment with NMDA receptor antagonists has shown the ability to
encourage the formation of new synaptic connections and reverse stress-induced neural changes (Zarate, 2013).
However, it has been suggested that there may be a substantial relationship between ketamine antidepressant
and psychotomimetic effects. This relationship could be mediated by the initial steps of ketamine action through
NMDA receptors (Sos, 2013).

10. Experimentally, ketamine may promote neuronal apoptotic lesions but, in usual clinical practice, it does not
induce neurotoxicity. The consequences of high doses, repeatedly administered, are not known. Cognitive
disturbances are frequent in chronic users of ketamine, as well as frontal white matter abnormalities (Mion,
2013).

11. Contributing to ketamine’s analgesic action is the inhibition of nitric oxide synthase resulting in a decrease in
nitric oxide production (Aroni, 2009). Ketamine also binds to opioid receptors but the binding affinity is too low
to contribute to analgesic effects (Rowland, 2005) although there are suggestions that the binding to sigma
opioid receptors may also play a role in its antidepressant activity (Robson, 2012).

12. Other actions, probably contributing to analgesic activity include blockade of voltage-sensitive calcium channels,
sodium channel depression and inhibition of monoamine reuptake (Quibell, 2011; Meller, 1996). Ketamine also
possesses anticholinergic activity (antagonist activity at muscarinic acetylcholine receptors) which may also
contribute to its psychotomimetic properties (Dunieu, 1995).

Taken from: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...264677/ACMD_ketamine_report_dec13.pdf#page=12

 
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Hmm interesting, it seems there may be some contraindications between mxe and ssri's...I do wish there was some more information out there about this.
 
Ive blackout on IV mxe....was running around the house screaming things about god coming to collect us all.......The slight bit that I did remember of it was the most glorious feeling of realizing that I myself...was god. After I came too i was totally normal and my friends told me i was acting like a raving lunatic
 
While I haven't had what I would describe as a blackout, I have had MXE trips where I don't remember parts of it but I assume that's due to the disassociation.
Also, when I've gone up to 125mg nasally in 25mg bumps once every 30mins I usually end up puking at the peak. Very similar to puking while being extremely drunk on alcohol ( violent purging of eveything). I remember one occasion where I knew I was about to puke and managed to robo-walk to the bathroom in time and puking my guys out. I have no memory of cleaning anything up but I must have and just not remember doing it. The main reason I remember all of this is because at one point just after vomiting, I remember looking around my bathroom utterly confused about where I was or why I wasn't feeling well sitting in front of the toilet. After a few mins everything seemed to click back into my memory and I thought it was actually really funny.
Since then I keep my maximum doses to around 100mg (25mg bumps with re-dosing ever 15mins) which I find more successful to achieve holing.
It's such a strange drug. I would say that every time I I've done it it's been a somewhat unique experience. I also limit my use to only once or twice a month.
 
Serotonin definitely contributes to that. MXE is a reasonable SSRI at regular doses, and using it whilst on an SSRI potencies the manic / psychotic / fucked-up state. MXE alone is much clearer and more similar to K with some added 5-HT action.

In an individual without SSRI history that overshoot the MXE dosage, it acted like regular ketamine inducing a catatonic state of dissociative anesthesia with normal vital signs. The come-up phase was characterized by psychotic imaginery and thoughts though.

The same goes for DXM - it's a strong SNRI on it's own, leading to quite psychedelic / psychotic trips above a certain threshold. Combining with even low-dose or low-potency SSRIS potentiates that.
 
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