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MXE and ethylphenidate: marked cross-tolerance

afer

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
218
Lately I was (ab)using ethylphenidate quite extensively while brushing up for my final exams.

Interestingly, this resulted in a remarkable tolerance to MXE. The effects of MXE were severely blunted, if not abolished completely, in spite of >week long abstinence from MXE itself.

This gets me thinking that MXE's action is indeed dependent on dopamine reuptake inhibition after all.
 
I have actually been thinking about this recently. What conclusion (purely by thought, not experimental/experiential) is that the stimulant would work as a benzo would to end a psychedelic trip. It keeps you too stimulated to be immersed in the experience. Any actual science??
 
Not really, MXE acts as NMDA antagonist and serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it has no appreciable affinity for DAT it seems.
And ethylphenidate acts as DA and NE reuptake inhibitor.

So that is... pretty different. :)

Not sure what the explanation is then... just regular tolerance? Not sure. Was it the same MXE product?
psykedenlitenment may have a point somewhere in there: perhaps the reason for your reduced effect is similar to the reason why nootropics seem to have an effect on what dissociatives do.

(data in here)
 
The MXE was from the same batch and normally a week long abstinence resets my tolerance to MXE completely.

In hindsight, I had also been taking pramiracetam regularly, so perhaps this was the cause? I recall reading somewhere that nootropics increase expression of NDMA receptors following regular use. Because of this NMDA antagonists understandably will have a weaker effect or will require higher dosages...I suppose?

Thanks for the link, a lot of intriguing information there.
 
i don't think mXe would be just a dopamine drug(if it somehow is). just because two things share a tolerance doesn't mean that. ie; 5 or 6 MAPB shares tolerance with psychedelics.

as for grade of the mXe, i think some of the RC scene makers are not as good. prob the way the drugs were and now synthd. ie; 4-mmc and even mXe, you can't beat the pre-ban. its like a different drug.
 
Anyhow, the molecular structures of both are strikingly similar, as well as the subjective euphoric comeup phase....this is all unscientific rambling of course, but still...an interesting phenomenon I guess :)
 
as for grade of the mXe, i think some of the RC scene makers are not as good. prob the way the drugs were and now synthd. ie; 4-mmc and even mXe, you can't beat the pre-ban. its like a different drug.

4-MMC is just banned in a lot of places, but high quality MXE is still out there. I think you just have bad luck with your vendors or most likely of all your perspective is skewed by long-term tolerance.
 
I agree that high quality mXe is out there, most of what i have had in the last year has been very good. (several batches)

it is not my long-term tolerance. Tried some old mXe from years ago - WOW, i don't think you can get mXe like that now. But i am still hoping that more will come out like this. My friends can't really tell the difference, but i am the only one in the circle who does enjoy mXe. the old feels like it has a rush to it and much more spiritual over-all. A little less dissociation and more in the mind.


4-MMC(mephedrone) speaks for itself. since its ban, no one else can produce the same synth (yet) or the same quality as China once did. Yeah , its getting close, but you wont find pre-ban quality mephedrone anywhere again. Not for a while anyway.
 
This is consistent with what I have heard from many oldschool MXE users....the new stuff really lacks the magic, according to them. Might be because the old MXE used to be a specific enantiomer, while now vendors sell mostly the racemic mixture...or so I have heard.
Anyhow, MXE which I own required oral dosages of no less than 100 mgs for any noticable effects to occur, and this had been prior to developing tolerance. Which probably means its quality is sub par to say the least.
 
after, that is a perfect way to describe it - it lacks the magic. i had some good mxe i dosed last night, 10mg (oral) caps were keeping me very nice throughout the night. but def lacked true mXe magic like the old-old batches had or have if ur lucky :D


the old mxe had more magic on the after-effects of the drug mostly i notice, but also though out.
 
would this ''old mxe'' the good stuff, be the bright white fluffy powder, and is highly active and magical @ 10-25mg, the other batches are the ''salt'' looking ones and the beige yellow sand crap.

from what I have noticed there are at least 4 different types around right now.

1. the bright white super fluffy powder- this is the potent one above that does not cause a massive drip, last how long its supposed to and will have you in mxe land @15mg has slight numbing effect sublingual.(bitter numbing flavor) has no smell, gets the heart going feels dopamine like ( even though this has been proven wrong) and will m-hole you easy.


2. the yellow sandy kind which seems to cause more vasoconstriction and stimulant-ish effects and does not last long at all takes 100mg+ a dose (salty flavor) will run right out your nose

3. the clear crystalline kind, this causes fast drip, does not have the magic but still has all the hall mark mxe effects but does not last very long.

4. wet salt consistency, has a salty taste, drips quick, but has all the essential effects but takes a additional 7-10mg for any particular level you want.

5. white powder slight chem taste, very low potency and has you wondering if its mxe at all, trash
 
the old mxe is not around any more, in terms with harm reduction there isn't any point at all discussing powder 'looks & effects'

there's no accurate way to look at something and know what it is or how good it is. or even, think it is the same batch / ingredient - it could be totally something else and still look the same.

even if you are dealing with mxe (not 100% true that any mxe user is), it sounds good discussing them but really you can't say for sure by just looking at it.

maybe lab testing could work out how the mxe was synthesized? or human testing of course :S
 
This gets me thinking that MXE's action is indeed dependent on dopamine reuptake inhibition after all.

Not really, MXE acts as NMDA antagonist and serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it has no appreciable affinity for DAT it seems.[/URL]

MXE may not be a DRI, but it's very likely that it's a direct dopamine agonist, just like PCP and ketamine.
So this cross-tolerance can still be explained by dopamine receptor desensitization.
 
In hindsight, I had also been taking pramiracetam regularly, so perhaps this was the cause? I recall reading somewhere that nootropics increase expression of NDMA receptors following regular use. Because of this NMDA antagonists understandably will have a weaker effect or will require higher dosages...I suppose?

Pram being a fairly strong AMPAkine, especially in comparison to the more common racetams, it'll significantly diminish the effects of dissociatives. Have you been taking MXE and Pramiracetam at the same time? If so, then you have almost no tolerance - I made the same mistake myself when using IDRA-21 with DXM, tricking myself into believing I had a massive tolerance, and my lack of forethought (and afterthought as well, for that matter) cost me gravely. If this is indeed the case, just avoid taking any Pramiracetam for at least 3 days before using MXE and you should be fine. If this isn't the case, then I'm stumped. There's no pharmacological reason I could think of for two almost entirely unrelated substances causing cross-tolerance with each other. Science hasn't come to a point where we could give a definitive answer explaining something like this, were it to be true. Given that I've used dextroamphetamine and other weaker stimulants very often in my regime along with MXE without encountering any of the issues you've brought up, I can almost guarantee you the pramiracetam is the root of your "tolerance." Again, stop taking Pram a few days before dosing MXE and you can thank me when your "tolerance" magically disappears. ;)

Mildly OT: On another note, I've been having a bit of a thought lately. I haven't done any research to confirm my theory at this point, but given the ability for AMPAkines to diminish or completely eliminate the effects of dissociatives, I can't help but wonder if they might just be the only substances with the ability to reverse tolerance to dissociatives? If anyone with some noticeable level of tolerance for a dissociative (any dissociative, it doesn't matter) would like to give this a shot, taking AMPAkines religiously on off days in an attempt to reset or, at the very least, halt the continued development of tolerance, I'd greatly appreciate the effort. The racetams may not be the best choice here, despite being more common, cheaper, and better studied compared to their cousins - I feel their potency as AMPAkines, with the possible exception of Coluracetam, isn't quite at the level needed for this to work. While Piracetam did significantly diminish the effects of DXM in my experience, IDRA-21 almost completely wiped out the effects despite having used multiple substances to massively potentiate the DXM. I wouldn't use Sunifiram either due to the possibility of potentiating dissociatives (while we do know this happens with stimulants, I can't say for certain whether or not Sunifiram would potentiate dissociatives as well), an effect which might be confused for a reversal in tolerance only to slowly diminish over time. Unifiram and IDRA-21 would probably be ideal for this type of experiment. Any takers? As soon as my MXE tolerance reaches a significant level (most likely, I'll start once 300mg is required in order to hole), I'll be sure to go crazy with RC nootropics again. For now, PRL 8-53 and Coluracetam are the only "non-conventional" nootropic substances I'll be using, as I'm broke and I've recently run out of my supply of IDRA-21. Sorry to high-jack your thread Afer, although this thought does have some relevance to the topic at hand, albeit a somewhat loose resemblance. If anyone is interested in discussing the theoretical potential for AMPAkines in reducing/inhibiting the development of tolerance to NMDA antagonists, or has some relevant experience to share on the matter, I'd be very interested to hear from you. Please feel free to send me a PM, so as to avoid going even further off-topic here.

Be sure to reply back and fill us in on your results, Afer. Though as I said before, the Pramiracetam is almost definitely the culprit here, I'd be even more interested to be wrong. Good luck, mate. It'd be quite a shame not to be able to experience the full spectrum of such a wonderful substance due to some silly little error like this. I can't say enough how much I love this drug. I hope this post proves to be helpful for you.

And, on another entirely off-topic note: Solipsis, do you mind clearing out your inbox? Unfortunately, my PM didn't seem to go through. Thanks.
 
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there was never a inclination that you should dose on the mere aspect of a substances appearance, and :color/form/smell/taste ect. ect. is never a good way to identify,dose or manage any compound,.
 
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