Music vs Silence on Psychedelics or What helps deep exploration

[GRNBTTSTY]

I've been on a bit of a bent lately, watching as many videos of the Shulgins on youtube (specifically ones that I hadn't already seen) as I could find. Something Sasha said in one of the videos reminded me of something I've wanted to start a thread about for awhile.

The refined concept entered my mind after hearing comments from Terrance McKenna. He was saying something along the lines of a lot of the time when I'm tripping I'm sitting in a hut in near perfect silence with nothing but me and a candle flame but then when I come back to civilization I see these people who dose twice as much as myself and go to raves or concerts. I've seen these places and I don't know how they can do it with the loud music all the flashing lights and people, what are they doing to themselves?!?

That was when the concept of sensory overload/over-stimulation during trips entered my mind. The power of this effect was driven home to me after taking 800 DPH at Halloween Horror Nights (A giant Halloween event at universal studios {a theme park}). I was definitely "high" but other then feeling off kilter, looking awful, and having dry mouth and slight difficulty moving, really not much happened. My vision was slightly off and different but this was one of the most underwhelming drug experiences of my entire life. It seemed clear to me that the only reason my trip turned out this way was because of the massive sensory overload. There where thousands of people running around, screaming, chainsaws, costumes, haunted houses, explosions, etc.

I've had one other experience as extreme and that was doing Methylone over the course of 4 days (and a very small amount of Mushrooms on top of that one night) at DragonCon 2010 (a gigantic yearly anime/sci-fi/science/fantasy/fandom convention in Atlanta, GA). The opposite happened here. The throbbing masses of people definitely added to my drug.

It seems to me that in both cases what the sensory over stimulation was really messing with was the mind-scape. I was very high in both cases (as was the case with all the concerts and Festivals that I've attended), but the "head" part of each experience was downplayed. There were less revelations, less connections, less mind-fuckery, less thought loops. Visuals seem to be variable. Some experiences they where downplayed and in others they where not.

This all in turn got me thinking about the differences over stimulation makes in general, not just in massive doses. In most of my trips (as in most of my life) music plays a central role at some point, and it is common for it to be on for the duration of the trip or thereabouts. If I'm not listening to music I'm usually trying to do something interesting and fun (to many activities to list, lol). And often there is also a portion where me and my trip companions avidly talk, either of our trip or any other subject of interest.

I rarely trip alone and I rarely have a trip without some music. There is one I had however that seemed to provide me with more solid things I could take back to my regular life with me to help improve myself and my situation. I by no means intend to stop doing psychedelics just for "fun" but I would very much like to attempt to get more solid answers and help out of myself through their use. Is music (as well as other various tripping activities) possibly, at least sometimes, a distraction rather then a help in the journey to self knowledge?

I am loathe to say so. I had an experience recently at a concert whilst on some Subutex (which I posted up in the trip report section here) that, while not bringing me back any lessons, gave me many new ideas and connections in my ever on going quest to write interesting and satisfying stories. It seemed to me that the trance like qualities of the music (as well as events leading up to that show) helped to put me in zone. I do this sometimes with music in general, using it to help focus my mind and point my consciousness like an arrow. I know the answer is probably, like most other factors involved in tripping, heavily based on set, mindset, and setting; but I really wanted to hear you're guys' opinions.

On any trip from here on out, if I am going in with a specific question or problem that I would like answers to or help with I will try my damndest to "meditate" on it the preceding week and very much that day as well as probably trying to reduce extraneous sensory input for the vital parts of the trip, at least.

So what do you nice folks think? Has anyone thought of this before? Does anyone have any personal experience?

tl;dr: Does sensory overload, specifically music, make deep thinking/self exploration more difficult while tripping?

 

[Folley]

Wow.. damn good question!


For me, it's music or nothing. I really couldn't imagine a trip without it... but it always has to be a VERY specific type of music. I get extremely picky on psychedelics... on 4-AcO-DMT I had a fucking MAGICAL experience melting into the music.. my body turned into plasma and dissipated into the cosmos. Then, the song changed and I was snapped out of it and spent the whole time TRYING with all my might to get back to that state..



For me though, whether is be 25i, LSD, MDA or 2C-B... I need music! That bass.. get a subwoofer pumping out LOUD and crank that shit up. The pure vibrations it puts out... bass has guided so many of my trips. If the music stops, even for a few seconds... shit just gets so awkward lol!



You're right, it really puts you into a trance.. gives you something else to focus on. That might seem bad, but when you focus on the music, close your eyes.. you'll just drift away, and so will the music. Eventually you won't even notice it, if you can achieve TRUE ego loss


Not to mention, it will block out any of those ANNOYING day to day sounds that can interrupt an amazing trip. Nothing worse and catching a glimpse of the edge of the universe, just to be brought right back by a dog barking








This is the kind of music I prefer to listen to for most psychedelics.. got a hard rythmic bass (almost emulates a shaman's drums ^.^) yet still that distinctly psychedelic edge that can get you dancing OR push you back into your seat as you venture your mind

https://soundcloud.com/dj-anima/27-09-2012-acid-hard-trance


LOVE that mix on ketamine! Snort a fat line just as you hit play

 

[GRNBTTSTY]

I very much agree about positives of music, Folley. I'm addicted to no drug but Musique! It's very nice to put headphones on and drown out most everything but the music in the background of your mind! :3

I'm glad you where the first one too post in my thread over here. You post makes me feel a little better. When I posted the TR that wonderful experience I talked about in the opening post, while everyone was very nice and polite in the typical Bluelight way, most of the people who responded to that thread essentially chalked everything that occurred that evening to taking a large enough dose to make me nod. The music and building up of emotional stresses the week and a half before didn't really ad much to it. They may have flavoured your experience but it occurred because of the nodding. That's how it works. That's what it does.

I am want to disagree with them. Music and the Mind are very powerful in their own right and set and setting have very important roles to play even in "non-hallucinogenic" drug experiences. But I digress.


Oh wow. I must have gotten a little less sleep then I thought. I forgot which thread I was in. lol.

Anyways, I've only had a couple of experiences on drugs where the music became "important". It's always amazing and euphoric and a driving force in the experience and it often influences my thoughts and feelings during that time but rarely is it what gives me answers or revelations. It does often help carry me into that trance state though. And it is a wonderful tool for that. But like you I haven't had but barely any experiences without it. And the one that sticks out in my mind is just me talking to and encouraging and learning from myself. I'm interested in experimenting with more drugs and stimulation at the beginning and end of the experience but just sitting and thinking for a large portion. Could be interesting.

 

[xx001]

I think that either way is great but the trips will be different.

One thing to consider is the purpose of the trip. If I am taking a psychedelic and going out to a rave, it is going to be serving a different purpose than if I took it and relaxed in a quiet dark room, or went for a hike in the woods. In some cases, the drug is enhancing the experience, but in others, the drug is the experience.

So, yes, strong external sensory experience, like being at a rave, will change the nature of the trip, usually by reducing the intensity of the effects. This is not to say that this is the wrong way to use psychedelics. It can be wonderful, but it involves only a small part of the wide spectrum of effects that can be experienced, and excludes most of the deeper states that aren't suited for such an environment.

Of course, listening to music during a trip doesn't necessarily mean that you are in a crowded club with a loud sound system, flashing lights, dancing, etc. It could mean putting on some headphones, laying down in bed, and closing your eyes. I have had plenty of excellent trips like this that have given me new insights and appreciation of the music, as well as general enhancement of the pleasure.

Music and psychedelics are perfect for each other, but I feel that the deepest, most explorative states come from having minimal sensory input - McKenna's "five dried grams in silent darkness" thing. At least half of my trips have been in such an environment, and they tend to be the most intense.

So I think each method is valuable and can be used for different reasons. I do feel sorry for the people whose only experience is dropping acid at a concert or a club, as they certainly are not getting the full experience.


Also, here are some excellent videos with James Kent explaining the interaction between music and psychedelics and why feedback systems in the brain produce stronger experiences without sensory input.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tAZwWYmHXM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwxNUQfonVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53CuQjrPMpo

 

[jam uh weezy]

Both are great. Although i frequently forget to listen to music with so much going on. One of my favorite things too do on the come down of mescaline is listen to some music through quality headphones and closing my eyes in a dark spot. The show inside my eyelids that sync flawlessly with the music is pure bliss.

but I also find most trips are more beneficial with minimal sensory experience. The dampening of psychedelics' effects with music events is somewhat of a turnoff for me, and and but the body load feelings are still there. The overloading of sensory stimuli of these events just doesn't really mix well with me on high doses.

 

[kidklmx]

Sensory overload can be too much yeah. One time I was at a glow in the dark paint rave thing (yeah yeah, cheesy as hell) and everyone and everything was just too much so I went home. At a certain point I wasn't even aware there was a floor and I fell down the steps really hard..

On solo-trips I find that a bit of music really gets my mood going, never does it take away from my thinking or anything. Well, maybe when I'm drifting away in psychedelic bliss but that's kind of the point right? Though when the peak has gone I often just turn off the music and listen to the ambiance of the world around me. That's a really grounding experience and allows me to really connect to the world around me.

If I'm having really dark thoughts it's great listening to something I've heard a ton of times before, I think it has saved me from some trips I just wasn't ready to have. So yeah maybe it does dampen the psychedelia a bit but not once has this held me back on a good trip.

Though, the Terrence McKenna trip certainly has it's place and if you're purely looking for answers then it's the best way to go. A huge chunk of my trips are more about the total experience though, and in that sense music has really enhanced those trips. There's a certain synchronicity between the experience and the senses so it all depends on what your goal is really.

 

[thatdreamer123]

LSD? Music fuck yes the whole time.

Mushrooms? Sensory overload big time, not to mention my communication skills are shot as is on mushrooms, so music adds another dimension to this.

Music is great with psychs, I can't think of one where the music does not have an influence on the visuals, which i love the most.

But for instance, music on mushrooms is always a bit intense for me: can never figure out my ipod, headphones get tangled, stereo is too complicated, can't decide how loud i want it, everyone's is trying to say something, or so i think, music increases visuals a lot, etc.

I love the effect sub bass has on LSD though.

 

[IamMe90]

I always listen to music while tripping. It's one of my primary reasons for tripping, given how much of a musical person I am. The way music sounds and affects you while tripping is just indescribably beautiful.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

You're right, it really puts you into a trance..you'll just drift away, and so will the music. Eventually you won't even notice it, if you can achieve TRUE ego loss

Yes, and this is certainly desirable in terms of recreation (going an entire trip without music is not something I like to do, though I don't like it to have it on 100% of the time either), but does it edify?

What you report, and what I'm thinking myself, is that music is being used to make the trip more escapist, sure different music can take you all kinds of different places, but you're still tripping on rails. Fun is certainly a legitimate use of psychedelics, and a primary goal of their use, but when a focus on therapeutic use (introspection, inspiration, & integration) is desired it may be best to abstain. That's not to say music will prevent you from progress either, it's not a zero-sum game. Heck, I guess we could just say focus on what you want to accomplish, working through your head or musical fun, and you'll get what you ask for, whether or not the other is present.

It's always amazing and euphoric and a driving force in the experience and it often influences my thoughts and feelings during that time but rarely is it what gives me answers or revelations.

Hear, hear.

 

[2002Tii]

I've found that cycling between loud music and utter silence works best for me, they each make the other so much more dramatic and the shift in consciousness associated with the constant shift in sound has taken me to some very deep places.

 

[Northern LIGHTS]

when i used to trip, i would enjoy listening to either chill vibed out music or full dj sets and mixes. never really liked silence as i never dealt with the auditory hallucinations well. they often freaked me out a bit and would keep me too trapped within my own thoughts, while having a constant stream of music would keep in perspective which sounds were real and which were just in my head.

 

[mozaik0000]

Music does things for me, transports me , heals me, disturbs me, crushes me, releases me,...
Silence shows me how i can transport myself, heal myself, disturb myself, crush myself, release myself,...

 

[xTalK]

Sensory overload isn't solely just the sound. I find movement plays a big factor too, physical presence and visual sight. After taking a heavy dose of a psychedelic indoors and sitting about, listening to music, go outside around the peak. There will no longer be music, but if in a city the likes of the cars, traffic lights, bird tweeting, people bustling about and looking immediately overwhelm the senses. However this can be avoided by coming up in this space in the first place - to an extent.

I'm not a fan of silence, I like my hard techno. However, if really looking to get a deep introspective side of the trip it is possibly worth avoiding the music. As while I love it, it does add quite a different depth to a trip. This is speaking solely with psychedelics though. Adding music to the introspection can lead to it being swayed. Some of my best introspection have just been lying, cuddling close to the girlfriend either sitting or lying down, no words require to be spoken and in the comfort of that slipping into my mind.

With ketamine, I'm a k-holer and music is essential. It's too difficult to deprive your senses enough to k-hole with tolerance/quality these days without music to drift off into. However this doesn't result in introspection.

 

[EarthBounded]

I used to trip at shows or even when I was by myself music was necessary...
However now that im a tad older my last couple of trips I have had to turn the music off right away.. I now prefer tripping or even my sober thinking time to be without music.

Too each is own...Im guessing I will eventually go back to the music

 

[Reverend Random]

Here's a suggestion if you want to use music for introspection. It's what therapists in the sixties and seventies used, and the CSP (Center for Spiritual Practice) compiled a pretty long list. It might take you some time to get all these tracks together (and no doubt you won't be getting the same versions either) but it's worth a shot, I think. I've already made an attempt to collect a lot of it, put it in the right order and play it over headphones the next time I trip alone.

http://csp.org/practices/entheogens/docs/bonny-music.html

 

[GRNBTTSTY]

Here's a suggestion if you want to use music for introspection. It's what therapists in the sixties and seventies used, and the CSP (Center for Spiritual Practice) compiled a pretty long list. It might take you some time to get all these tracks together (and no doubt you won't be getting the same versions either) but it's worth a shot, I think. I've already made an attempt to collect a lot of it, put it in the right order and play it over headphones the next time I trip alone.

http://csp.org/practices/entheogens/docs/bonny-music.html

Oh man. That's a very cool list with a very interesting story. Thank you! :3 I shall definitely make the attempt at some point.

 

[purpled]

Generally I prefer having music to keep me company. Sometimes silence is just boring and music always makes a trip that much for interesting and thought provoking for me. You need to have a good choice of music to put on though, don't play something violent or just plain stupid.

 

[Reverend Random]

Oh man. That's a very cool list with a very interesting story. Thank you! :3 I shall definitely make the attempt at some point.

You're welcome. Do report back if you've tried it. I'm very curious myself, especially because the research that's been done on facilitating religious or mystical experiences in a specific setting and with a specific goal in mind (and with to the point preparation) seem to result in a much higher percentage of serious introspective experiences than you generally see in us 'recreative users'... And I mean that - although many of us do consider ourselves psychonauts - we're still just messing about. Most of us don't use psychedelics in a completely ritualized way like many indigenous peoples do. I strongly suspect that greatly influences the experience. Really, we're just messing about in comparison, despite how serious and responsible we think ourselves. And that's not to say I disapprove, it's just something I discussed with my gf during our last trip.

 

[kidklmx]

Yeah in that context I've been meaning to try things like A = 432hz tuned music and such things like that. Really look in to detail what Shamans do to enhance their trips and learn to apply it.

 

[oar9fi]

I usually prefer music & good headphones.

For the best of both worlds, nothing beats sitting out on the dock on a lake late at night & hearing the music & rhythms the frogs crickets & other critters make. (well, if mosquitoes don't get you it's great!) It's both silence and music. it's complex & hypnotic. The mosquitoes aren't really out yet here & the cool spring nights are great. Beaches at night are another great place for "natural music."