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Benzos muscle relaxant properties Clonazepam VS Diazepam.

M

Mracid

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 26, 2015
Messages
532
The title says it all; I know they are both considered muscle relaxant benzos and anxiolytic, less hypnotic, but which one works best for muscle relaxation; the most potent,sustained relaxation that last the longest. Diazepam VS Clonazepam

I have tried them both but the last time I used diazepam I had if for a week and it was used for insomnia. But I use clonazepam regularly these days.

And on the same topic, as far as hypnotic goes which is best Lorazepam VS Temazepam? I see that lorazepam has a longer half life, but I only need partial effect once I am asleep, so Temazepam's half life seems OK for me.

Take into account that I am not asking what to take but rather which has best quality for which specific use.

Thank you for taking time to read and possibly comment, have a nice day!
 
Ok I'm just going to state my experience with all 4 of these benzos you are speaking of! I have been prescribed valium, 50 mgs a day, in the past and am currently on klonopin 3-4mgs a day.. Now, I know they say both of those have "muscle relaxant" properties, but I have only really found that to be true, with valium(diazepam), they are probably my favorite benzo of all, at doses 30mg or more, but I don't like them when I only take like 10mg of valium.. I can barely feel it with my benzo tolerance! When I was, prescribed valium at 40-50mg a day, I fucking loved it though.. it took away all signs of anger, anxiety, depression(usually wasn't someone who got depressed, more angry!), and had a very strong muscle relaxing, loosened up, kind of feel to them... with each one I took(10mg at a time throughout the day, after my 20mg am dose) I would get more and more of that relaxed, loose feeling.. and I was just so fucking happy about being alive and just existing in the world! But, maybe 2 years ago I was forced to switch to a different doc, and she didn't like diazepam, only klonopin and Ativan.. she said, Xanax and valium, were much worse, which I don't understand at all! I don't know why, she of rip told me, when I showed her my current prescription to valium, the first day I met her, that my old doctor was irresponsible to prescribe 50mg of valium a day! and she would gladly give me kpin, which I had originally taken, before getting on valium from my old doc as well.. it was the first benzo I ever was scripted.. like 5 years ago.. and I love it, too.. but it does not, seem to do much of the same things as valium to me at least, I get almost zero muscle relaxant type effects from them, at doses 3-4 mg a day.. just calm, happy, and much less anxious about things.. it makes me happy, but not like valium did.. valium made me like, ecstatic, much like an ex pill or mdma would, for real, but not stimulated just the opposite, sedated! I got so fucking happy about everything, and even if my day sucked in reality, I was never bothered..

As far as lorazepam and temazepam.. definitely temazepam! Fuck Ativan(lorazepam), it sucks ass! I never got them to work for me, like other benzos do, they were utter bullshit of a benzo in my experience.. temazepam however, had me feeling pretty nice, the few times I got to try it! Temaz owns lorazepam... anyday!
 
Thanks for the reply! I have tried the 4 of them too but too much time between and too low time of use to be able to compare them. Reading your comment makes me remember some of the effects I had and I now remember how temazepam was wayy better than Lorazepam, but I was on 30mg which equals 2mg lorazepam and am now on 1mg lorazepam so that might mean the difference but still.

I noticed you mention the high and feeling, I am really in no need of getting an effect on my mood, I feel pretty good sober but have these headaches (today like 30 mins ago, I was close to not being able to close my eyes because my eyebrow muscles were so tense and cramping it was awful), all I want is muscle relaxing effect and sedative effect (I have BAD insomnia and respond badly to every other sedatives). But other than that your comment was really helpful for me to understand their differences. I appreciate your help.
 
Yeah no prob.. For sedation and muscle relaxation, diazepam is my all time favorite.. I feel wonderful all day, and sleep great all night.. definitely get the muscle relaxation with diaz.. not so much with clonazepam for me, if any.. I don't know everyone is so different when it comes to benzos, and which ones do what to whoever takes them.. some may work great for one person, but horrible for another.. and vise versa.. I love valium, as do a lot of people, but I also know people who get nothing from it at all.. no sedation, no relaxation.. nada.. and I know people who love lorazepam, but I hate it! I get absolutely no feeling from it.. I feel more from kava tea, than I do from Ativan! lol.
 
I also have had better muscle relaxation effects from valium. I think clonazepam is a better "functional" benzo to take during the day, but that's just my experience and im sure it depends on dosage.

I personally prefer to take clonazepam because valium feels very short acting for me. It has a very long half life, but I don't get that from it. Clonazepam, however, I'll feel during the entirety of its elimination half-life or more.
 
... Diazepam is prescribed for insomnia, and is a very effective sedative/hypnotic.(Taking tolerance and personal neurochemistry into account)

So now that we've corrected that, clonazepam is by far the more effective myorelexant. It is prescribed somewhat commonly for this purpose.

Also, as another poster mentioned, diazepam has a very short duration of action(albeit a fast onset) Clonazepam has a delayed onset generally, but a single dose provides 8-12 hours of effects(again generally) and at steady state, twice a day should work wonders, although it depends upon the type of muscle discomfort.

Case in point: Clonazepam wins this one in very regard.

Good Luck.

(To the above poster, half-life and duration are two very different things. Diazepam is more soluble, penetrates the BBB faster, but exits faster and is distributed to other body tissues where it is useless. But Clono is the opposite: slow penetration, equates to a slow exit, and it is not as widely distributed or protein bound. It unfortunately, still does not hold 30-40 hours(try that w/ epilepsy and you learn the hard way) but, still much longer than diazepam)
 
Also, the half lives of lorazepam and Temazepam are more or less identical, temaz tends to be more variable(it's been listed as low as 3.5h, all the way up to 25) but both average the about the same (10-20h).

But again, duration and half life often poorly co-relate, especially with benzodiazepines.

The duration is pretty similar, it's hard to compare because Temazepam is pretty much exclusively a once daily or as-needed hyponotic, lorazepam is prescribed 3 times per day generally.

I'd say a sufficient dose of either holds longer than one one might think, lorazepam has a slower onset though, and only a *slightly* longer duration, and for me personally, no question Temazepam is the better hyponotic.
 
Thanks for the reply, I think everything points toward Temazepam as best hypnotic, higher selectivity toward a1 and B3 subtype while lorazepam seems more of a a2-a3 subtype selective.

Regarding clonazepam and diazepam, I am having partial relief from my headache from 2mg clonazepam dosage split in 2 1mg 3 to 4 hours apart getting a relief for about 7 to 8 hours, so I was wondering if it is the most myorelaxant, would it be best to look for another benzo or a higher dose, (higher dose might make the hypnotic less effective due to tolerance building and is harder to get.)

Because really my only issue with muscle relaxation is that at the middle of the afternoon I get tension/cramps in my muscles of the forehead, neck and specially eyebrows which sometimes make me unable to close my eyes, I have to force it and even then my eyelids are shaking and I dont have the strength to hold it for longer than 15 mins. I also have the problem of having my doc think its a migraine because when I told him about my headache I said around the eye without specifying muscle of the eyebrow, which led him to make me try triptans which do nothing but gives me vertigo. Altho next time I see her I'll tell her about not being able to close my eyes, that should clear it up, IMO butalbital would be best since it has more pronounced muscle relaxation but its not an option right now.
 
Diazepam, hands-down, both in my opinion and that of the medical community.
 
No, Clonazepam is more often a pure muscle relaxer, and science seems to support this.

But everyone is different :)
 
Lorne??? said:
No, Clonazepam is more often a pure muscle relaxer, and science seems to support this.

But everyone is different :)
Click to expand...

What's your source? I'm not trying to be a dick about it, I would just like to read more about it. Diazepam is very frequently prescribed as a muscle relaxer, and I thought they were both effective for this purpose.
 
I got Trigeminal Neuralgia. I cantell ya for this Clon is way better Mucle relaxant! But that's just my condition.
 
I have taken both over the years, klonopin and valium, and both were different in many ways, but also had some similarities IME.. I got and still get very little to no muscle relaxation from clonazepam.. never really have, when compared to valium, where I definitely feel my muscles loosen up and become much more relaxed.. Valium if your someone like me is the best overall benzo for both anxiety and muscle relaxation.. it has not only the long half life when I take it, but also has a long duration of action IME, everyone's effects will vary greatly from one benzo to another, as I have found this class of drug, to be particularly fickle from one person to another, I.E. someone may get 2 hours of anxiety and muscle relaxation from valium, while they will get close to 15 hours of the a similar type effect, more or less from clonazepam of an equipotent dose.. while people like me get the same duration of action from both of them, they both work great for anxiety, but I have to say, valium feels much more potent as a muscle relaxer than klonopin does, regardless of whatever facts there are out there, this is only my experience with them both, and the OP could have a totally different experience than me.. I mean I am just a "long acting" benzo lover, I much prefer the long acting effects of klonopin/valium to the quick acting effects of Xanax or Ativan, which is not only shorter acting than all other benzos to me, but literally provides me with no anxiety relief whatsoever.. I have taken over 10mg of Ativan with little to no benzo tolerance, and anxiety through the roof and felt no more than I would have felt from 0.5 mg of Xanax, if that, which I found to be pathetic for a benzo.. it just doesn't have much of an effect on me at all, or if it does the effect it has it way to subtle for me to notice.. But some people, I know in person, would much prefer to take 1mg of Ativan to 20mg of valium, maybe even 30mg of valium... I know people who have taken 50-60mg of valium, and had barely anything in the way of anxiety relief/muscle relaxation when compared to them taking 1-2 mg of Ativan, maybe just even if only just anxiety relief, as I have heard even from people who prefer Ativan, that it isn't the best muscle relaxer, at all.. everyone, is totally different with benzos and what one they need/works best for them, and how there body will metabolize them.
 
Slow_Mobius said:
What's your source? I'm not trying to be a dick about it, I would just like to read more about it. Diazepam is very frequently prescribed as a muscle relaxer, and I thought they were both effective for this purpose.
Click to expand...

Diazepam is basically, alongside Lorazepam(Ativan), the benzodiazepine gold standard(although alprazolam is now the most commonly RX'ed, afaik, and these 3, along w/ Clonazepam, are the "big 4", and along w/temazepam, the top 5, in at least the US.

My point is 5-10mg Valium 3-4 times a day is quite common for many purposes, and it is even occasionally used as a sleep aid! But, it is rarely prescribed more than 10mg a pop, and indeed, all they make is 2, 5, and 10mg tablets(it takes 5-10mg of diazepam to equal just 1mg Ativan, or 0.5mg alprazolam(Xannies)

Ok, getting to my point, it is often prescribed for many reasons, but that doesn't make it more effective.

My source is Clonazepam's selectivity for certain subunits, and extremely high binding affinity, and even articles on its unique uses(I.E: It is used in high doses(up to 12mg, maybe more) to treat certain neurological conditions. It is even an effective co-analgesic for certain types of nerve pain(reference above poster). It is arguably the most effective anxiolytic for MOST PEOPLE with panic disorder type 2 and/or extreme anxiety, and is the strongest anti-convulsant at steady state. It is a myorelxant, and is finally being utilized as a second option for tapering people off or at least to a low dose of benzos, due to both a long half-life, delayed onset and extended duration of action.

That's my other source. It is prescribed in 1 and 2mg tablets, well it's gonna take 30-40mg diazepam to equate to 2mg Clono, and clonazepam lasts up to 12h.

If you prefer diazepam, fine. No problem. But if you need constant or near constant relief, Clono lends itself. But they are many articles on and other info on the subject, if I can dig then up I will happily post them, but google is your friend. Pubmed helps, but you need scholarly articles, or Google books if you are interested.

And no, I appreciate those who seek knowledge :)

Either way, wish you luck
 
I've done quite a bit of reading, and I haven't seen anything conclusive that clonazepam is objectively more effective as a muscle relaxer. If anything, diazepam is a better accepted treatment for muscle spasms. That's why I'm curious about your sources.

Personally, I think ILove2Nod is on point with this one. Your mileage may vary with different benzos. IME I agree with Lorne that clonazepam is a better overall benzo, and it has some distinguishing characteristics that make it a superior drug for several disorders, but I personally find diazepam to be superior for muscle relaxation at what is generally considered equal doses (benzo conversion chart). But like Lorne pointed out, it's unlikely that you'll be able to get a high enough dose of diazepam to equate to the 2mg of clonazepam unless you're the type of person that gets long-acting effects from diazepam. Clonazepam is significantly more effective mg to mg.

I think the best answer for OP is to try them all and play with your doses to decide for yourself. Diazepam has active metabolites that act as hypnotics, so it may be a better option for treating all of your symptoms if youre looking to use only one pill. Or you may be able to take clonazepam once or twice daily and add a sleeping pill of some sort to take at night.
 
I do not think my doc will allow me to try them all, but there is still hope, and I finnaly found which exact muscles are the source of my pain, which I will be working with either a physio or an ophtalmologist.

Keeping in mind that she is INCREADIBLY uncomfortable with prescribing anything that is considered addictive to a 19 years old but I think that If I ask for Temazepam 30mg at night while asking from 20mg diazepam or fiorinal just for the time I see some1 that could actually make the source of the problem go away then tapper off with diazepam to make a full day without benzo except night, it might work for her.

Since I do not think that strenghtening the antagonistic muscles of the muscles I am having trouble with will take long, I basically need to strenghten some muscles and strech others and I've read that problems like this can be solved completely, and gradually stop the medication, except the hypnotic for sleep.
I kind of also have a multiple muscle strains in the area of the right upper back which are taking more than 2 months to heal which is a good reason to ask for a muscle relaxer. But for my headache I don't need sustained effect really I only need to get my pain away when I can't handle it even when I am using muscle relaxing techniques.

Then once my shoulder is healed and my muscles of the eyes, eyebrows and forehead are stabilized to a point where I can actually pass a day without using anything( I stay relatively safe and seek for low side effect profile, wether prescribed or not, I am really trying to manage this the most safe way I can), I will start working on my insomnia problem. Which can be fixed, by getting back to sport after more than a 2 months forced break, and working on meditation, relaxation and few other things.

So from what I understand diazepam should be the best since the quick effect might make the tension go away completely and the long half life and accumumation could contribute to reducing the speed at which my tensions are forming.
Because they are forming gradually from eye to eyebrows to forehead to full head. Then use temazepam for sleep because it kicks the shit out of Lorazepam in that regard.
Sounds like my plan I now just hope she agrees with a temporary solution to a debelitating problem that I intend to solve by other kind of treatement than medication for a long term relief.

I also thought about asking for a fiorinal script for the worst days, which I believe she will say no but it will worth a try.

IDK if she sees me as an addict looking to get high, because I am not and hope being direct and honest will convince her of that.

Thanks for the enlightement, and I hope that if she accept in about 2 to 3 months I will be able to get rid of any use of benzo daily and can start working on my insomina. Working on 3 things simultaniously is not working and I know that because I have been trying for the last 2 months.

I want you guys to know you really helped my understand my situaltion and gave me insights about how to control it the best I can during the time I try to solve the problem instead of treating it.
I thank you for that and am really grateful.
 
Last edited:
Well she won't give them all to you at once, but if you try one and it doesn't worj, she will switch you to a new one to try.

Honestly, I think she would be pretty understanding if your shared this plan with her. Do plenty of research, and if you ask for a specific medication, have a good reasons to back up why you want that medication in particular. She might not give you exactly what you ask for the first time, but if what she decides to give you doesn't work for some reason, she might give your suggestion a try. Don't hesitate to share the whole plan with her. Full discolsure is the best course--especislly when youre still trying to establish trust with your doctor. Diazepam is very commonly prescribed for acute spasms, and if your looking for something fast acting, it's probably going to be superior to clonazepam.

Man I feel the struggle with getting pegged as a drug seeker and doctors being hesitant to give out scripts for anything controlled. I'm a CPP and in my early twenties. I've had to deal with some doctors that outright refused to switch my meds when they didn't work. If that happens, ask to be transferred to a specialist or just find a new doc will actually try to help you. It took me awhile, but I've finally found a doctor whos open to my suggestions and trusts me to do my own research on meds.

Also, definitely work on the physical therapy/rehab. 19 is way to young to be taking benzos every day unless you've failed most everything else. I think telling her that you want to be clean from benzos in a few months will help reinforce that you're not looking to get high, but that you just want relief.

When you day you've tried every other sedative for sleep, have you really tried everything? Belsomra is a new one that I've been thinking about trying myself. I also have problems with insomnia and muscle spasms. Cannabis and z-drugs are my saving grace.
 
Thanks for the advices. I have already been through 4 doctors for this and they all labelled me a drug user/addict because a year ago I was a daily cannabis user, no other reason, now that I cant inhale anything I use cannabis rarely and in the form of green dragon which helps but is far from a daily kind of relief.

And yes as far as sedatives go the only1 I didnt try is suvorexant which doesnt look like a good long term strategy since mostly my difficulty sleeping comes from both pain and inability to find a comfort zone in my bed, always switching position. The sleep doc I just saw said that I had no actual problem with sleep but might have underlying condition that causes it.

And about being a CPP under 30, you are lucky to even be treated, I have chronic pain in le left region of my groin with the worst pain on the left epididymis and have seen over 5 doctors for it and NONE of them agree to treat it, so have been tolerating it for 2 years and a half.

I don't see why she wouldnt agree to put me back to what I had before I turned 18, yeah from 16 to 18 I had 30mg temazepam at night and 15mg oxazepam morning and afternoon, if I count well it's pretty close to 20diazepam and 30mg temazepam, also that doc was a psychiatrist for children... IDK why when I saw an adult psychiatrist all he wanted to to is get me on the only antidepressant I never tried Bupropion and take me off benzos at all costs. since then I lost em all gradually, and now that I know the source of the problem is neither psychosomatic representation of anxiety, nor a chronic spasms/cramps issues, I don't have anything to make it bareable during the time I work on the long term solution. Crazy. I can only hope she will listen to me and she already do not know what to do so I don't think she has anything else to offer.
 
I have the exact same problem with pain and an inability to find a comfortable enough position to sleep. Without a hefty dose of sedatives, I'll toss and turn all night until I eventually give up on sleep... Fucking horrible stuff man. Insomnia makes the pain worse and the pain makes the insomnia worse... That's my experience at least. Seriously let me know if you find something that works for you!

I take kratom every night which takes enough of an edge off the pain for me to sleep with another sedatives. Cannabis alone doesn't work reliably for me, but a little red Bali, a little cannabis, and a some kava, benzos, or z-drugs will put me out instantly. Granted I can't get 8 hours, but 6ish hours a night is a compromise I'm willing to make.

And 4 different doctors is horrible luck man. I have the same problems with docs always wanting to put me on antidepressants! They give me no relief, but I always still get the weird side effects. I just refuse them now and tell them that they provide me no benefit, weird side effects, and bad WD. Also bupropion is notorious for causing seizures so I really don't think it would be safe for your doctor to take you off of benzos AND start you on bupropion... sounds like a bad combination IMO.

BTW I haven't tried suvorexant yet for the same reason, but I might give it a shot at some point anyways. Good luck man. Really hope your current doc is a little more understanding about at least finding a temporary solution for you at your next visit.
 
Got good news today, I saw a neuro for something completely different but asked for his opinion on my headache and he said tension headache which would make it easier for me to get fiorinal for bad days. Also I will probably drop the one who diagnosed Migraine and keep with this one for that, he gave me his card and I'll talk to my doc about that, I also got an appointment for a specialist in ADD which will help for when I use relaxation techniques as a more permanent relief. So everything seems to line up for me, all I need now is for my doc to be open minded and listen to what I have to say. If it happens ill be able to drop my psychiatrist the useless neuro that diagnosed migraine and only see a ADD specialist, a neuro for tension headache and my doc. It looks like with that i could get temporary relief while I work on permanent relief and finnaly get rid of using any drug other than TDA mediaction when I finnaly get rid of headaches and muscle tension. I hope it will go well because I have been waiting for that for like 2 years!

As for pain well, there is nothing to do other than either getting used to it or getting chronic opiates use, which I do not want. So if I am left with ADD and pain only I will be pretty happy.
 
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