And have you tried bufotenin? I think it's pretty accurate.
For me, anyway. Bufotenin gives me the most horrible, crippling body load of any psychedelic by a huge margin. I would describe it as genuinely painful and unavoidably alarming. It's one of the only psychedelics that has ever had me convinced I was probably about to die, and unlike any other, it had nothing to do with the trip - so clearheaded that I thought it was totally bunk and inactive until I suddenly realized I was hallucinating even more heavily than on DMT out of nowhere. It just really is that physically unbearable. Nonetheless, the visuals are astounding. However, I actually still think 5-MeO-MiPT is even more impressive, other than being less 3D with the imagery (think basically any synthetic 4-substituted tryptamine vs mushrooms).
With regards to effects of 5-MeO-MiPT specifically, I tend to also suspect this due to the fact that the visuals I got from it are similar not only in strength but also in style and color scheme to bufotenin; they are at least as similar to it as MiPT is to DMT and 4-HO-MiPT is to psilocin, while interestingly the empathogenic-stimulant effects that people often describe were not very present for me, perhaps due to the lack of unconverted 5-MeO-MiPT floating around? Hard to say, but that's my current theory.... Regardless, I feel quite fortunate to get the effects from it that I do.
And I have found a handful of other reports describing similar effects from similar doses, so I know I'm not the only one.
That sucks about the 5-HO-DMT bodyload. While I don't suffer from it nearly as badly as most--only get it for under a minute before it fades away--those seconds that I experience it do feel pretty toxic. As soon as the prickly body load, chest pressure, vasoconstriction, cramping, flushing, and pseudo-nausea subside, then the come-up hits. While I'm pretty doubtfult that this is the case, it feels like my body is taking a toxic compound and rapidly metabolizing it into an active metabolite. It's a shame that many people get such a nasty bodyload from it, as it'd be a delight to share as it's so psychologically unthreatening.
I can't speak to similarities with MET, but I can definitely see similarities to 4-sub-met, now that you mention it. Unusual in their lucid, colorful, 3d object generation as well as in their lack of significant headspace shift (for me.)
That's quite interesting about your visual reaction to 5-MeO-MiPT. I, too, enjoy it at higher doses than most people, sticking to 6-8mg for the most part. I enjoy the visuals I get from 5-MeO-MiPT quite a bit and feel privileged to get even the subtle effects I get, as the vast majority of reports find it to be pratically non-visual. You're quite unusual there, clearly, but maybe we have some metabolic similarities in the fact that we do both get visuals from that material. My visuals don't sound anything like yours, though. I get visual grittiness and intricately detailed, tiny neon CEVs that occasionally bleed over into OEVs.
I've only tasted DPT once. I feel like I would value it highly if it was the only tool I had access to; it seemed powerful and useful. That said, it had an intensely unpleasant vibe to it that haunted me for a full week afterwards, something I've never experienced from any other psychedelic. I have to say that I wasn't inspired to revisit it or any of its 4-substitutions.
I read a thread somewhere in PD at some point in time since I joined (heh) about bufotenine, and converting it to a particular salt or something, where for the user who was posting about it, it made it feel great and got rid of the bodyload. Wish I could point you to it. This user had a lot of experience with bufotenine and I believe they said it was their favorite psychedelic. Lots of info in that thread, I don't remember it too well though.
Xorkoth, I think you are referring to 69Ron's posts on calcium bufotenate? He was lambasted throughout the forums for that, which was regrettable. While I do believe he was wrong on that one, I've generally found his guidance and experiences to be quite valuable. As to calcium bufotenate, I haven't personally found there to be any empirical, phenomenological differences between salts OR the full alkaloid extract tbh. I will say, though, that attempts to vaporize it were always abortive, like failed DMT trips. I would consistently get body load alongside the yellowing of my field of vision and some distortion, but that's it. When any source of 5-HO-DMT was used to enhance leaf and then smoked, however, I was consistently able to break through to highly 3D-visual experiences with reduced bodyload.
It's *possible* that I just got lucky on my first try of enhaced leaf back in 2005. I have heard people say that after pushing through a hefty number of attempts with 5-HO-DMT like my vaporized attempts that they began to experience full effects, so perhaps there's some kind of sensitization thing happening? That doesn't make sense to me, but hey, everybody's different.
Interesting ideas.
How is 4-AcO-DMT to you compared to mushrooms? I guess you probably haven't had pure 4-HO-DMT, most people haven't (I was able to get some when it appeared briefly in 2006 or 2007), but I am wondering how the two compare for you? Some people find 4-AcO-DMT to be virtually indistinguishable from mushrooms, whereas for me, the first half feels extremely distinct, it feels like oral smoked DMT, and then the second half after the peak is very much like mushrooms post-peak. back when 4-AcO-DMT first came out, the general consensus seemed to be that the 4-AcO-trypts were the same as their 4-HO counterparts, we even had combined big and dandy threads for 4-HO/AcO-DiPT, -DET, etc. I found my experiences with 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT to inform me beyond any personal doubt that the acetoxy esters, at least 4-AcO-DMT anyway for sure, are active in their own right, but my theory is that some people metabolize them into the hydroxys faster than others. What enzyme would handle that conversion?
I found 4-AcO-DMT to be a bit different than 4-HO-DMT, to my surprise. 4-HO-DMT is biphasic for me, with the first half of the experience being innocent, light-hearted, and somewhat visual and the second half serious and non-visual. 4-AcO-DMT has a slower, steadier, more constant feel throughout; however, the first half of the experience is marked by light-duty smoked DMT-esque visuals. It's a little strange that way. My perception may be skewed by the gap of years between the two materials, unfotunately. The same goes with the AcO and HO 4-subs of MET. My one experience with 4-HO-MET was not as light and pleasant as my experiences with 4-AcO-MET at double the dose, so I never revisited it to see if that was a fluke or not.
