Moving on from lingering effects of traumatic trip

[Pagey]

I've been debating whether or not to post this for weeks but I'm really not quite sure what to do so hoping I may be able to get some help here.
I had a really traumatising difficult trip a couple months ago that I'm not managing to move on from at all. It was on something between 100 and 150mg of aMT, and I was certain that every single person in the world wanted to hurt and kill me. I was at a hotel with my boyfriend and his face just kept transforming into what, at the time, I saw as 'Evil'. I felt like there were people outside the room door waiting to come in and kill me and I was seeing these faces everywhere. Anyway, since then it's not only been impossible to have a purely nice trip, I've just been in a constant state of paranoia.
Can kinda divide it into two issues I want to address -

- Issues when tripping: I can't have nice CEVs anymore. It's much harder for me to get them as it always feels like my brain is just blocking them completely, there's a wall between me and the visuals. And once they do get through, I'll only see scary images - most of the time I'll see the face of my boyfriend when he became 'Evil' on that night. And just generally feeling edgy and not being able to let myself go.

- Issues when sober: I'm completely paranoid about everything. I don't feel 100% comfortable around anyone anymore, and in the back of my mind I'm always wondering if someone's behind the door waiting to hurt me. I'm having a lot of trouble being out alone at night for instance, I'll just start feeling trapped and like the difficult trip is coming back all over again.

I've been trying to work on this stuff with tripping - light trips to learn how to be okay with the experience again; but I feel like I really need help to get back to normal even while sober and all. I really don't know how to fix this being constantly scared about everything and being unable to trust people. No matter what is happening I'll always be thinking 'no but he/she wants to hurt me', and I have to force myself to rationalise to stay normal.
Does anyone have experience with anything like that? Any advice would be so appreciated, I'm really at a loss…
Thanks

 

[SeenSoFar]

I really wish I could offer you something more than this, but I genuinely think that the best thing for you would be some serious time off from psychedelics and especially marijuana if you are a smoker. Generally when something like this happens you need to take a rest and try and put your thoughts in order. Benzodiazepines are good for anxiety attacks, but be careful relying on them, I'm sure I don't have to tell you how addictive they are. Generally though, you just need to try and find your way through it.

As I have said in other similar threads, I have known of quite a few cases quite similar to yours and all of them have cleared up with a long break and some self-analysis. Generally, marijuana is the one that seems to make things worse the most often, but frantically tripping at every possible opportunity trying to fight it with brute force has not ever been helpful in every case where I've seen it tried. It doesn't usually make it worse (although sometimes it does,) but it has never made it better in my experience. Give your brain a break. Do some meditation, try and see if you can find something positive that came from this experience even if there is nothing immediately apparent. Look inside yourself and see if there is some issue in your life that you have been blocking out or denying. Hopefully, this will be the most helpful thing you can do.

Good luck and good vibes friend. I wish you success!

 

[Inflorescence]

Hello there,
In all honesty I haven't properly tripped for a couple of years, and by that I mean on good old fashioned LSD or decent mushrooms.Not had much experience with aMT. I have taken various substances in recent years that have had some 'trippy' effects-mild-moderate visuals etc on other things but not aMT, so maybe I am not the right person Or certainly the most experienced in recent years to comment.

I am getting on for 40 now and started to doing a ton of LSD from about age 15 tailing off mostly at about 22. Then sporadically in the intervening years and preferring mushrooms for their then easy availability here and slightly less harsh comedown.
I have done and felt some crazy things as I am sure many will contest to from their own experiences. I have also laughed for hours and experienced some beautiful thoughts and consciousness.
BUT on a scarier note did think on one occasion I could quite easily jump from a 22nd floor and fly---sigh,the acid used to be sooo good and bad.

I also had quite a few terrifying bad trips and on more than one occasion felt I was never coming back! However what flummoxes me is why after this experience you would think it a good idea to carry on? I at one point was having a lot of flashbacks and very weird altered states weeks/months after doing a trip.

I do wonder if doing it in the foreign environment of a hotel room was a good idea for you? I always have always planned trips with the people I both love and trust the most in the world and in a safe enviroment. I too had on occasion thoughts of extreme paranoia and or that these people may be out to get me/were the devil/ had a plans for my death etc.

I realised at that point I had to give it a serious rest and moved on to other drugs such as MDMA and amphetamines, coke etc-probably not the best suggestion for most.But I felt fine. I did notice at that point that these feelings of mistrust and paranoia and panic only came back if I smoked weed. I haven't smoked weed for about ten years now..All those feelings come back 3 tokes in!!! I do the occasional trip but start with fairly low doses rather than the 'throw caution to the wind and just neck everything' mentality of my youth. In my humble view you just need to knock it on the head and stop for a gooood while. Everything that SeenSoFar said seems pretty bang on/makes sense to me.
I personally stopped for a while and had a drink for the first time in 4 years -being a purist I never mixed alcohol then with any psychedelics and weirdly really enjoyed doing that for a while. Feelings of persecution, feeling scared and anxious and feeling mild psychosis don't sound like much fun to me. I am of the culture and age of party drugs and tripping with a few trusted people in a nice comfortable home of someone you trust..yep I am no spring chicken but I still have most of my marbles and tend to do drugs recreationally these days for fun.
If it stops being Fun and/or enjoyable I think you can and should probably just stop....at least for a while.
I am a weekender, a hedonist and if it feels good I will do it but if it starts scaring the shit out of me and makes me question my sanity..a rest is what your fryed mind is telling you. I wish you luck with your anxiety and hope it dissipates. Etizolam may help or a real benzo but you may benefit from a bit of cold turkey. Obvs would be more sensible option....then again since when have any of us been sensible 8( but have a go. I wish you well

 

[webbykevin]

If it stops being Fun and/or enjoyable I think you can and should probably just stop....at least for a while.

this

 

[GreenMachine]

never taken AMT but i certainly would like to! i havent had many "bad trips". not sure if i could call any of them bad, but i have definitely had a couple similar to what you experienced.

definitely time to take a break for a while. you dont wanna risk feeling any crazier IMO. eventually youll get the urge to trip again, you will know when its time

 

[any major dude]

I think a break for a few months is good advice. And I've found, with regards to benzo's & anxiety, using them 2-3 times per month to kind of break the cycle of anxiety can be quite helpful during periods of intense stress or unpleasant life events. And this schedule also prevents any tolerance,addiction, & withdrawal issues. I've also used ketamine & methoxetamine on a similar schedule before for anxiety & depression. It's quite effective, but again it is very important to not travel down the road towards abuse or addiction.

The anxiety I was using these things for wasn't related to difficult psychedelic experiences, but more due to relationship & work issues.

And as always, healthy diet & sleep patterns along with regular exercise can work wonders alone!

 

[mozaik0000]

Pagey, if my memory serves me well, i remember that you were addicted to heroin not so long ago, and that an AMT trip, previous to the one youre speaking of here, helped you realize the damage heroin was doing in your life.

So you quit heroin, but started using AMT quite frequently to compensate.

And somewhere during that time you had this frightful trip.

Since then you say you have trouble when tripping, i assume this is with AMT, or are you using another substance?

It is common knowledge that AMT depletes serotonin, quite similarly to MDMA.

I think quitting heroin overnight could be enough to give anyone a few bouts of anxiety and paranoia.

Regularly depleting your serotonin with AMT when you should have been soberly recovering left you with little chances of not going through the symptoms you described.

It´s a good thing that your brain is showing you "evil" CEV´s and so on or else you might be tempted to binge, no?

I dońt think you'll see happy visions before you let your body soberly restore its endogenous "happy" chemicals.

You'll be fine if you give it enough time and rest.

 

[Pagey]

Thanks so much for all the answers, they've been very helpful

SeenSoFar - I've sort of had an inkling the best thing to do would be to stop tripping altogether but have been trying to ignore the obvious so I think I kind of needed others to tell me as well...but you're right, that's probably the best course of action. Luckily I don't smoke marijuana anyway so that isn't an issue - have been trying to avoid benzos but I think I'm going to get some just because having them around would probably make a big difference. I suppose putting time between now and that trip can only help really. Thanks

inflorescence -

However what flummoxes me is why after this experience you would think it a good idea to carry on?

Valid question...it's simply because I really miss having great trips and every time I'm just hopeful that for once it'll go well. Tripping's been an integral part of my past few months since it helped me quit heroin and I'm simply having trouble saying goodbye for now

I do wonder if doing it in the foreign environment of a hotel room was a good idea for you?

In retrospect, it definitely wasn't a good idea, no - and I don't think I'd have gotten quite so paranoid if I'd been at home/in a more familiar environment. Definietly won't be doing that again.

I am a weekender, a hedonist and if it feels good I will do it but if it starts scaring the shit out of me and makes me question my sanity..a rest is what your fryed mind is telling you.

Yeah...it's so obvious really but also so sad...!

GreenMachine - cheers. I hadn't tripped in about a month (long time for me...I've been doing it too often ) until this week-end when I tried out AL-LAD because I really felt like it was the right time and I had mostly recovered from the aMT nightmare - wasn't as bad as it had been straight after the latter, but still. But I guess it'll feel 'more' right later on.

any major dude - will keep that benzo schedule in mind! I've been using MXE regularly to help with heroin PAWS anyway and it's true that has been making a difference with regards to anxiety as well, although I think benzos once in a while on top of that could really be beneficial. Slight issue I have with MXE is that lately it's been bringing out the trip paranoia too for some reason...I can't really figure out why though

mozaik0000 - good memory yes. I actually haven't used aMT in about 6 weeks - I used it a couple more times after the experience I described here because I thought I needed to try it out again to 'fix' it but that didn't go great, so I've put it aside for now. The trouble I've had with tripping since has been with a range of psychs - 2C-C, 2C-E, AL-LAD, and 6-APDB, although the 6-APDB actually went fine, I'm assuming because of the simplicity of the CEVs (they don't really morph into anything recognisable). Anyway you're right about quitting heroin and anxiety and the two have definitely been going hand in hand these past months, but what bothers me is really the focus of the paranoia I've been having lately...ie. feeling threatened by people. I'd really nver had anything like that before.
But anyway, you make a good point about my brain not being back to normal anyway because of the heroin. Thanks for the advice

 

[Help?!?!]

inflorescence -
Valid question...it's simply because I really miss having great trips and every time I'm just hopeful that for once it'll go well. Tripping's been an integral part of my past few months since it helped me quit heroin and I'm simply having trouble saying goodbye for now


any major dude - will keep that benzo schedule in mind! I've been using MXE regularly to help with heroin PAWS anyway and it's true that has been making a difference with regards to anxiety as well, although I think benzos once in a while on top of that could really be beneficial. Slight issue I have with MXE is that lately it's been bringing out the trip paranoia too for some reason...I can't really figure out why though

mozaik0000 - good memory yes. I actually haven't used aMT in about 6 weeks - I used it a couple more times after the experience I described here because I thought I needed to try it out again to 'fix' it but that didn't go great, so I've put it aside for now. The trouble I've had with tripping since has been with a range of psychs - 2C-C, 2C-E, AL-LAD, and 6-APDB, although the 6-APDB actually went fine, I'm assuming because of the simplicity of the CEVs (they don't really morph into anything recognisable). Anyway you're right about quitting heroin and anxiety and the two have definitely been going hand in hand these past months, but what bothers me is really the focus of the paranoia I've been having lately...ie. feeling threatened by people. I'd really nver had anything like that before.

The best advice is to just let go. It's not exactly simple but its what you have to do. Just understand that bad trips happen and tripping while integrating from heroin use isn't really a good time to attempt things like aMT especially IMO since its depletes important things. Everyone has them and they can end up a lot worse then some odd CEV's/paranoia. I remember once on a strong 4-AcO-DMT trip I had CEV's of war like images, people in trenches getting blown apart very vividly, but I just laid down in bed and meditated on things. Bad things happen but the important thing is all in how you deal with them. You can let them own you or you can own them. You can think of it as a time you nearly broke down, or you can think of it as the time you tread through a difficult experience but triumphed.

I suggest you trying meditating as its a grand way to calm one's mind and quietly take the time to think things through. Paranoid thoughts are just that, paranoid thoughts, they have no basis in reality(though maybe you should be concerned if they refuse to go away as psyches/diss's can bring out people's underlying mental issues, hopefully this isn't the case though, but the persistent paranoia....hope for the best though!). If your really that paranoid of people coming after you to hurt you, then why not carry some sort of protection around to ease that fear so in the bizarre case that someone did try anything(I wouldn't worry about this at all though as long as your being safe!)you would be prepared(say a small can or pepper spray or the like?).

Lastly I read in the MXE thread that your insufflate it. IMO and most other users this is not only a fairly inferior ROA it tends to cause more stimulation/unwanted side effects which could be more sufficient in leading to paranoia. I suggest you either try oral/sublingal or even another ROA and you should probably keep your doses low, at least for now. Oh and remember the important thing....your only saying goodbye for now, not forever! It may just be the fact your used to having some sort of chemical aid lately that makes it difficult in your mind but simply remember that you'll come back refreshed in a better place where you can trip somewhat often if you choose too. Oh and you don't need to fix a bad trip with the same psychedelic, I actually find that counter productive, its said that psychedelics "imprint" in your mind in certain terms so I bet that if aMT's certain effects imprinted badly on your mind for a minute then trying aMT again would just bring back the fear whereas using another psychedelic(even mild ones like 6-APDB would be good but i'd give your SERT a break....but 2c-E is very good at fixing trauma's for me)may be a different ball game, making it easier for you to maneuver around the thoughts/remnants of the bad experience without experiencing the same feelings.