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most people on this forum probably agree religion is BS...but

TheDeceased said:
I don't believe the man existed at all personally.
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Are you retarded? Even Muslims believe Christ existed. Whether or not he is the messiah, or if a messiah even exists is questionable, but he is a historical figure.

TheDeceased said:
Maybe Jesus was a communist.
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Maybe he was. A dictatorship is bad, but communism is only bad if it's run like a dictatorship. If it was lead out of love and charity rather than fear and greed then everything would be perfect, and you wouldn't have to worry about money or any of that shit because money is fake. It is just a symbol of power; Who can accumulate the most paper or shiny metal. Money is bullshit. It is just something to keep the sheep busy so they don't realize the real problem at hand.

That is why Jesus was regarded as the shepherd because humans are sheep. We will believe anything that sounds good, and follow whoever promises it. He spoke against the corruption that was happening which is the same shit that is happening today: The rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer. They killed Jesus and stole 'his' image(rather made-up a new one and used his name). The Jesus most people worship is not the real living Jesus. Jesus is still very much alive in side the heart of true believers. So the Jesus that you hate/love may not be the true Jesus that walked the Earth, but rather a fictionalized version of him to control the masses.

To answer the original question: Yes I think religion is bullshit!!!!! But if I had to adhere to one religion for the rest of my life it would probably be Taoism.
 
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I see all religions as trying to do the same thing with people.

Its basically like a form of psychotherapy, or even a cognitive program if you like.

Its designed to cultivate a kind of consciousness/perception which is free from anxiety and has faith that for what ever happens things will be fine.

So in this case I think Zen Buddhism is probably the purest(least BS) religion out there.
However because of that, it does not appeal to most people.

Rather Christianity with its myth-indoctrination into believing that Jesus is your "rock" and he will protect you (if you do x), gives people a much easier means of reaching that state then just sitting and counting your breath. However the problem there is the strict and at times unnecessary morality.

Just to clarify, I am referring to the more esoteric side of religion, not so much the politically corrupt exoteric side. (Yet this still applies to both in some degree)
 
As someone raised in a Christian culture, I accept many of the core elements of Christianity, if looked at logically.
 
TheDeceased said:
I don't believe the man existed at all personally.
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Talksick said:
Are you retarded?
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Jesus' existence was not documented by any historians that I'm aware of. The gospels are the only record of his existence and they were written decades later by people who never met him and then rewritten over the centuries to come. They were numerous historians who lived during the time of Jesus and none of them ever made a note about his existence. Which is strange, really, considering the fact that he performed miracles, claimed to be the son of God and was later crucified. You would think they might have mentioned him.

Christians point to the gospels as proof. As I said, the gospels were written decades after his supposed death by people who never met him. This doesn't qualify as "proof" in my opinion. Even if it was written by people who said they knew him personally, that wouldn't be proof. For something to be verified, typically some sort of cross-referencing is required. You can't accept a single account of something as evidence. If there were at least two different historical accounts written during the time of Christ that you could match together and find similarities then that would be a good start. But there isn't. There isn't a single one.

What exactly do you believe about the story of Jesus? He clearly didn't walk on water or turn water into wine, he wasn't the son of God, he wasn't conceived magically, he didn't cure the sick or drive demons out of people. Most of the story is clearly bullshit, yet you believe that the character in the story is real. Why? Is Adam from the book of Genesis loosely based on a real person? What about Job? Noah? Or is it just the Old Testament that's bullshit? Because the same amount of evidence exists for all both the New and Old, for Jesus and Noah, Job and Adam.

If you are going to accept Holy texts as historical documents, where do you draw the line?

(Yes, I am "retarded".)

Talksick said:
Even Muslims believe Christ existed.
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Are you speaking for all Muslims? Because I personally know quite a lot of Muslims who believe that he didn't exist.

Talksick said:
Whether or not he is the messiah, or if a messiah even exists is questionable, but he is a historical figure.
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Your stating your unsubstantiated opinion as fact. I said I don't believe he existed at all. I believe he is a mythological figure. Whereas you are saying, flat out, that Jesus isn't a myth. It's possible that he was a real person. I never said it wasn't. I'm not sure how you're so certain, though. Care to elaborate?

(There are a lot of historians, theologians and other writers that would disagree with you. Have a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory)
 
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Eashoa bar Yosef was his name. Jesus is a mispronunciation that occurred when translated to Greek and then into Latin.

You are correct that everything he did and said was taken far out of context. I never said I believe the fucking holy roller shit, but Eashoa was very real and his message was true and pure. I don't claim the title of Christian, but I don't deny Eashoa.
 
Please provide a single source from a historian (not gospel) during the time of Jesus/ Eashoa. You are again talking absolutes. You say "he was very real", not "you believe he was a real person". You don't know if he was real or not. If he was, wouldn't there would be some historical documentation?

His name is irrelevant, whether it's in the original Aramaic or in the translated Greek or Latin. A name is just a name. It doesn't prove anything. Jehovah's Witnesses are all about the "real" name of God, but what they are referring to is the Hebrew word for God. Jehovah is synonymous with God which is synonymous with Allah. None of these titles are "wrong".
 
Ancient Astronaut Theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_astronauts

In the Biblical Old Testament, the Book of Ezekiel tells of a flying object seen as a fiery whirlwind which when descended to the ground gave the appearance of being made of metal. It is described among other things as a wheel within a wheel containing four occupants, "living creatures", whose likeness was that of man.
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BaptismOfChristByAertDeGelder_Fitzwilliam_Cambridge.jpg
 
What passage in Ezekiel?

That doesn't sound right to me.

Unless you selectively take words and parts of sentences and re-assemble them...

Bible said:
1Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.

2In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity,

3The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.

4And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

5Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.

6And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.

7And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.

8And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.

9Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.

10As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

11Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.

12And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.

13As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.

14And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.

15Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.

16The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

17When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.

18As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.

19And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.

20Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

21When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

22And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.

23And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.

24And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.

25And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.

26And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.

27And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.

28As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.
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There is absolutely no mention of anything "resembling something made of metal".
 
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Yah ok fair enough i copy and pasted that text from wiki..

But the passage from Ezekiel does seem to talk about a flying machine..
 
TheDeceased said:
Please provide a single source from a historian (not gospel) during the time of Jesus/ Eashoa. You are again talking absolutes. You say "he was very real", not "you believe he was a real person". You don't know if he was real or not. If he was, wouldn't there would be some historical documentation?

His name is irrelevant, whether it's in the original Aramaic or in the translated Greek or Latin. A name is just a name. It doesn't prove anything. Jehovah's Witnesses are all about the "real" name of God, but what they are referring to is the Hebrew word for God. Jehovah is synonymous with God which is synonymous with Allah. None of these titles are "wrong".
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Obviously your purpose in this life is to disprove his existence. I'm done arguing with you, for it does nothing to further my life. Sorry that you don't believe in love.
 
I think the much overlooked Theological Noncognetivism, Stoicism, Taoism, The 5%'ers (NGE) , Buddhism and just inventing you're own religion based on the Gospel according to you are all worth looking at,, purely imho... I have much less faith in people who want to show me their organised religion is the only way than I do in "God" / spirituality to be honest... To me whether or not you believe or not is probably not half as relevant if there was a God to how you treat others while alive.
Another thing that bugs me is why so many equate belief in God with an afterlife when there could well be one without the other,, only humans have an innate fear of mortality.
 
Obviously your purpose in this life is to disprove his existence. I'm done arguing with you, for it does nothing to further my life. Sorry that you don't believe in love.
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Why would you get all snippy like that. His point that there are no reports about Jesus from Jesus' time period except Christian Scripture is factual. Even most Christian Scripture is accepted to have been put together long after the fact by Bible scholars. Taking Jesus' divine nature, spiritual mission, or iracles as a matter of faith didn't bug you but the mention that we have no solid proof of his existence is really bugging you that much?

Many ancient or quasi-ancient figures don't have strong proof for their existence. Even when their existence is well documented the factualness of their biographical details is usually pretty fuzzy. And how does questioning the historicity of Jesus have to do with believing in love?
 
^^^ The story of Jesus was stolen and defiled. Most people who claim to be Christians are nothing at all what a Christian should really be. The message of Jesus is one of love and charity. People in power took it and used it as a tool of control because they saw how many people believed his message. The truth is still in there, but it is surrounded by a bunch of lies, mistranslations, and misconceptions. Jesus never spoke of hell or damnation, and I find those two things to be the reason most people say they don't accept his message. Many people have put words in his mouth that were never intended. It pisses me off because so many people flat out hate and deny his message because they have never actually heard the true gospel. All I'm saying is whether he walked the Earth or not is irrelevant, but the message of love and humanity should ring on. The message was never meant to instill fear or condemn non-believers. That is something that corrupt men did to his words/stories.
 
There is nothing wrong with religion, as a phenomena per se.
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i think that it's a vestigial component of our social evolution.

it's started to do more harm than good for our species/planet.
 
Obviously your purpose in this life is to disprove his existence. I'm done arguing with you, for it does nothing to further my life. Sorry that you don't believe in love.
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This not my purpose. You implied that anyone who disbelieves in the existence of Christ is retarded. I have since proved otherwise. If you didn't call me retarded, I wouldn't have had to justify my opinion.

I believe in love just as much as you do. I don't need Jesus or anyone else to teach me about love. It is inside me and it is inside you. Jesus doesn't own love. I love everything. I believe we are connected.

I love you.
 
^^^ Forgive me for getting a little heated about it. I just really dislike what Christians have done to the teaching of Jesus. I think too many people will never see such a great message because they have had Jesus shoved down their throat by over zealous "Christians". Whether he lived or the stories are metaphor, I have learned a lot from them. Like I said I am not a Christian, but I do believe there are great things to learn from it all. It just takes discernment.

You are not retarded.
 
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