Most Euphoric Stimulant?

[cleft]

If I could get the original stuff nowadays I'll if probably calmed down my crack and sniff use , especially being less than half the price per gram..

The distribution is controlled by smuggling gangs, and it's very centralized in the UK. I bet the Dutch will see an opportunity soon, and flood you with the OG m-cat.

Whatever popularity m-cat has in Germany or Poland is nothing compared to Russia where there's no in-person trade, and everyone buys from darknet markets, which account for 93% of darknet revenue. M-cat is 1/3 of that 93%. The price is 25 USD/g, while cocaine is 125 USD/g. Read Breaking Klad by Max Daly and Patrick Shortis, or listen to their podcast episode. They've done a stellar job reporting.

 

[4DQSAR]

Have you tested recent m-cat in the UK? It's often 3-MMC or 4-CMC. I see reddit posts that "mephi" is popular in Berlin clubs. It seems like most people in richer areas are afraid of RCs, and will pay 3x for cocaine.

Yeah - I almost added that to my previous post.

 

[4DQSAR]

What were some of these impurities? Do you mean after decades of continuous use or as in after decades of one exposure like say a potent carcinogen with extremly long half life/cumulative in tissue or something scary like asbestos?

Well, I've posted elsewhere but more than ⅓ of the synthetic CB1/CB2 ligands demonstrated significant quantities of dimer, trimers and polymers. Now those are far too heavy to vapourize ahead of the flame-front but instead are pyrolized and indeed, those pyrolysis products are known carcinogens.

Sometimes it was a 'who knows' situation. Lots of cases of misrepresentation. From positional isomers to compounds instrumentation couldn't elucidate simply because so many compounds with similar MWs were present. Yes, it could have been picked apart but misrepresentation was enough to reject.

Then compounds that were just sent and which were too novel for anyone to really know what risks they might present. I recall when mephedrone was banned, someone sent out 3-fluoro-2-(methylamino)-1-(4-methylphenyl)propan-1-one i.e. (in old money) the beta methyl had been swapped for a fluoromethyl. All I could state for sure was it was likely to be less soluble and possibly slightly longer acting but declined to taste. Those who did said it was painful to snort (lower solubility), duration was a bit longer but more worryingly, the 'comedown' was in a ill-defined way said to be 'worse'. The fact it never appeared as an RC (AFAIK) suggests the market was not prepared to accept it. No doubt other addition salts would be more soluble but that would be more work. I think people quickly noted altering the ring-substitution was preferred.

 

[riffcityequalsmethcity]

Vyvanse 100 percent. Could have been place and time and time of my life. Who knows. All I know is I was up for 2 days off one dose. These days I'll smoke meth and then eat and take a nap. Lol

 

[cleft]

The fact it never appeared as an RC (AFAIK) suggests the market was not prepared to accept it

Hard to say. When it became difficult to find reliable vendors who accept regular payment methods, the RC market collapsed. People are lazy, and impatient. They don't wanna set up a crypto wallet. Another problem is that none of the novel chemicals are radically better than existing mass produced ones (in the sense that MDMA was in the 80s when it was an RC).

 

[4DQSAR]

Hard to say. When it became difficult to find reliable vendors who accept regular payment methods, the RC market collapsed. People are lazy, and impatient. They don't wanna set up a crypto wallet. Another problem is that none of the novel chemicals are radically better than existing mass produced ones (in the sense that MDMA was in the 80s when it was an RC).

Oh, there are certainly some very good compounds that never ended up on the RC market. I assume because synthesis is more complex and costly.

If consumers will accept a bad but cheap product, that will prevail over a good but expensive product.

It's generally the case that Chinese manufacturers don't appear to do much research. Someone asks for a sample, they make it and get paid. If that same person comes back for bulk, not only does the producer have at least some understanding of the synthesis but for a while at least, has a product unique to them.

A couple of years ago some clearly insane vendor asked for the 2,5-dimethoxy-4-bromo derivatives of almost every class you can think of. I don't believe for a moment that the Chinese did that. Someone mistakenly believed they understood QSAR and one presumes lost a significant amount of money.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

It was overwhelming like flunitrazol but in a serotonergic way. Like I Saïd, it was better than benzos for faling asleep after 20 hours.

Literally never did it at parties because it was sooo great at killing pyro dopamine lever adventures, or at least made the psychosis feel funny enough to be in public. but it was more like being high on weed in public, comfy.

Talking about stims and stupid combo’s, 15 flunitrazllam 0.25 in a bottel of wine, ozium, tons of weed, and bacon in the grill.
Mdphp, hash(yes emmer that overpriced shit).
Rolletje Mdphp thought the hasj.
Take 2 hits and spend the rest of the night sloppily paranoia.

Still have some Mdphp hcl, a-bpvp(debromination or is it super complex?) I barely have a gram so not too worries

I have Some horrible nep, need to try it on g tho.

4-EMC, Ethyl-Methyl-Cathinone. Are u sure you aint mixing a downer with a Cathinone. They are sloppy but in no way a sleep aid or calming. The comedown is relaxed but you either are mistaking the substances or given the wrong one.

But probably just a bit intoxicated. "15 flunitrazllam 0.25 in a bottel of wine, ozium".

For all clearity i assume 4-EMC to be a bit like 4-MMC and Methylone. Unlike a Benzodiazepine like Flunitrazolam. Cheap sounding good rip of Flunitrazepam
[as was des-Methyl-Flunitrazepam]. A ime highly overrated Benzo,
i d take Etizolam any day.

And also not like Pyro-Valerone s analogues, which i personally couldn t get why they got so much hype. I had MDPV from 2 different sources, i needed to be sure it was not the batch. Not my thing DRI s. But then again i saw a documentary, it seem s Flakka is still alive. It has found a place on Dutch soil.

[Flunitrazol = Flunitrazol, right ! Couldn t find anything about it ?]

 

[Loquacious]

Sorry mate I was quite fucked up when I posted.

I can probably find the packaging.
Yes 100% 4-EMC ETHYLMETHCATHINONE. Maybe it’s my body, 4-fma feels sedating to me too for example. MDMA always floors me.

I meant overwhelming in the way that a line just smacked. Im a dopamine releaser kinda guy due to the aforementioned issues regarding serotonin releasing substances.

4-EMC felt like lethargic 4-MMC. So euphoric.
3-emc would be interesting.

I’ve tried a lot of them. Just couldn’t bring myself to try shit like 2cmc or 3-cec

I’ve never tried them but 3-fea or 4-fea should probably work in a similar way. (Only some 2-fea for when the urge to vape stims crosses my mind)

 

[jasperkent]

Most euphoric stimulant?
Cocaine.
But you'll need a time machine to take you back to 1985 or earlier.

 

[cleft]

If consumers will accept a bad but cheap product, that will prevail over a good but expensive product.

Consumers will accept an easily available product they can get quickly with cash. Good is subjective. Generally they want what their friends want. Music similarly is hard to decouple from the social aspect. This makes the classic choices like cocaine very sticky. Very few consumers wanna risk playing a lottery with an unknown compound.

for a while at least, has a product unique to them.

This is only relevant if the product isn't banned, but is in high demand, which is never the case in the last 10 years. Cost of synthesis isn't the main factor here. It's the ability to ship the chemical without getting in trouble.

insane vendor asked for the 2,5-dimethoxy-4-bromo derivatives of almost every class.
Someone mistakenly believed they understood QSAR and one presumes lost a significant amount of money.

The time for research is over. At this point, we have a pretty good idea what chemicals people like. If someone wants to make money, it's about distribution, and marketing, not finding the right structure.

 

[4DQSAR]

Have I missed something about Chinese law?

Because I was under the impression that the labs in China stay one step of the law.

It's certainly the case that those RCs that are brought under legal control in China are increasingly being made closer to the markets so shipping isn't quite as tricky. Obviously the precursors still come from China.

I have to admit to being surprised that in July of this year China has controlled a number of nitazenes.

But I would be hugely surprised if whatever-comes-next wasn't already here. It seems to take a long time for identification to take place. Faster than it use to be, but still not fast.

 

[cleft]

Have I missed something about Chinese law?

Because I was under the impression that the labs in China stay one step of the law.

It's certainly the case that those RCs that are brought under legal control in China are increasingly being made closer to the markets so shipping isn't quite as tricky. Obviously the precursors still come from China.

A vendor 2 years ago told me that anything not banned in China can be shipped with the right factory connections, but most, I presume, don't wanna take that risk, and only ship things that are legal in the destination as well.

Obvious precursors are also controlled and labeled as "international contraband". Of course, there's always pre-precursors, and pre-pre-precursors.

I have to admit to being surprised that in July of this year China has controlled a number of nitazenes.

But I would be hugely surprised if whatever-comes-next wasn't already here. It seems to take a long time for identification to take place. Faster than it use to be, but still not fast.

Why are you surprised? If something is obviously and exclusively a psychoactive, China always controlled the export.
What comes next after the nitazene ban? Probably they'll revert to fentanyl. It won't take long for samples to be analyzed.

 

[4DQSAR]

What comes next after the nitazene ban? Probably they'll revert to fentanyl. It won't take long for samples to be analyzed.

Well, those that stay ahead of the law may try something else. I freely admit I don't know if China has a blanket ban on the fentanyl scaffold or has just named specific compounds. If the latter is true, yeah, entirely possible. the 4 aryl derivatives of phenapromide (and ring substituted derivatives thereof) may or may not be classed as fentanyl analogues, but I always wondered why they haven't turned up yet.

From the limited data and from the structure I would assume it to be no worse than fentanyl.

BUT I OT...

 

[cleft]

Well, those that stay ahead of the law may try something else. I freely admit I don't know if China has a blanket ban on the fentanyl scaffold or has just named specific compounds. If the latter is true, yeah, entirely possible. the 4 aryl derivatives of phenapromide (and ring substituted derivatives thereof) may or may not be classed as fentanyl analogues, but I always wondered why it hasn't turned up yet.

There's a separate law prohibiting export of toxic substances, which probably blanket covers anything that shouldn't be touched with bare hands.

The controls are far from perfect, but compared to 15 years ago, they work quite well. In North America, people reverted to meth and cocaine, and fentanyl's main application is for counterfeit oxycodone pills. The big distributors have no incentive to experiment, and there's no decentralized network of small producers. It could be that it's possible, but no one bothered trying. Most people seem to be more than happy to get kratom extracts from their local gas station.

 

[4DQSAR]

There's a separate law prohibiting export of toxic substances, which probably blanket covers anything that shouldn't be touched with bare hands.

Just checking - do you mean that idiomatically or directly to mean things that have an MSDS indicating PPE?

 

[cleft]

Just checking - do you mean that idiomatically or directly to mean things that have an MSDS indicating PPE?

It's based on acute toxicity under the Globally Harmonized System (GHS), which uses LD50.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

Mephedrone
Cocaine IV

 

[JitteryKitteryDoo]

The only straight stim that's ever given me any euphoria at all was methamphetamine. It's a rarity in my country this shit was proper glass. I was absolutely soaring! Never got to that level out of all the crack I smoked in my youth but I did love a good bell ringer lol.

When it comes to entactogens, give me any of them lol. My oxytocin runs low as a default so feeling the warmth of a social interaction is a real treat. Unfortunately cannot partake currently as I'm on fluoxetine though thinking of getting myself some oxytocin spray cos fluoxetine actually reduces oxytocin even more but it helps so much with my rumination.

 

[lost weekend]

Iv only ever tried speed and coke.i know there is another thread somewhere for this but for what it's worth plugging cocaine gave me the ultimate rush far better than a line and uses smaller doses and lasts longer ,not great at a party lol but on your own it has a wonderful come up feeling like ecstacy. There's so many blood cells down there would seem crazy not to.i realize it's a very toxic substance and could damage your insides but 2 or 3 times a year is probably safer than railing it up your nose every weekend .it takes approx 4 minutes to feel it then an hour of euphoria then a gradual comedown for the next 2 hours .you do not need a lot I found so be carefull .I've never tried real stimulants like meth but I believe it lasts longer and is cheaper .

 

[General alcazar]

Mephedrone never gave me much euphoria. I really wanted it to, and used a lot of it trying. Kept upping it dose until I almost died when I injected a huge dose on accident. I could feel my heart desperately trying to pump blood, and turned white/ blue all over. Even then, no rush. I agree meth is probably the most euphoric. Maybe AMT as a close second, though not a stimulant...