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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Benzos Most Effective Benzo For Stim Crashes?
- Thread starter Tryptamino
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tricomb
Bluelight Crew
All benzodiazepines are "rapid acting" and it's confusing to say rapid acting (onset) is something different from short acting (duration).
LesFleursDuMal
Bluelighter
Librium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlordiazepoxide) proved effective in bringing me way down after speed binges. 25mg~ lib in addition to low dose clonazepam knocked me back. I believe in the way you want - ready to pass out, but euphoric, still able to think. Just my experience. but please dont mix benzos, it can be dangerous
Temazepam is not short acting, it is intermediate acting benzo. I use temazepam in place of a longer acting hypnotic because it is long enough to keep me asleep through the night but not so long-acting that I wake up with a hangover (like with flurazepam or diazepam).
Diazepam is also, not a short acting benzodiazepine. It is very long acting and it's active metabolites have a half life of 200+ hours.
Also, no benzos produce true euphoria, as I mentioned earlier, the closest thing to pseudoeuphoria would come from flunitrazepam, temazepam for some people (not me), and lormetazepam.
Temazepam is the ONLY benzo to have "euphoria" as an official side effect based on its FDA monograph. So temazepam does produce true euphoria, but like you said, not for everyone.
FDA monograph of temazepam
Not necessarily true. Some benzo are very slowly metabolized or "slow acting" (ie. oxazepam, clorazepate, chlordiazepoxide, prazepam). Individual benzos vary quite a bit in how fast or how slowly they are absorbed. Generally, the hypnotics are more rapid acting than the anxiolytics and that is based on pharmacokinetics of hypnotics vs. anxiolytics. Actual studies have even shown that temazepam is more rapidly absorbed than other benzos, while oxazepam is more slowly absorbed than other benzos.
Source
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What is "true euphoria" and what is "psuedoeuphoria" and what exactly makes them at all different if they are both euphoria?
According to dictionary definitions and the wikipedia article on "euphoria" and in comparison to other drugs I don't see how benzos are not euphoric(for me..). Xanax has really decent euphoria or "intense happiness and self-confidence." Clonazepam too, especially if you have no tolerance. This isn't euphoria from having no stress, although I'm sure that contributes to it(I lead a not very stressful life, and I'm generally not super anxious or anything...), it's euphoria feels very similar to alcohol or low dose amphetamine.
I don't know, it seems completely wrong to say a whole class of drugs don't produce "true"(?) euphoria and instead produce "pseudoeuphoria." Maybe they don't produce euphoria for you? Like some people don't get euphoria from other drugs? Doesn't mean the euphoria is "fake" or only a cause of less stress/less inhibition for everyone. Unless "true euphoria" is some term used scientifically to differentiate the mechanisms causing it, it seems more like technical word play with no real meaning, no offence just letting you know I believe many benzos cause very obvious(yet also arguably the euphoria from benzos seems to have a cap/ceiling effect, so if thats what you were getting at ) euphoria and haven't even tried the 3 you listed: flunitrazepam, temazepam, or lormetazepam.
also, the FDA's evaluation of side effects, especially euphoria, isn't some sort of end all be all.. It's the FDA.
According to dictionary definitions and the wikipedia article on "euphoria" and in comparison to other drugs I don't see how benzos are not euphoric(for me..). Xanax has really decent euphoria or "intense happiness and self-confidence." Clonazepam too, especially if you have no tolerance. This isn't euphoria from having no stress, although I'm sure that contributes to it(I lead a not very stressful life, and I'm generally not super anxious or anything...), it's euphoria feels very similar to alcohol or low dose amphetamine.
I don't know, it seems completely wrong to say a whole class of drugs don't produce "true"(?) euphoria and instead produce "pseudoeuphoria." Maybe they don't produce euphoria for you? Like some people don't get euphoria from other drugs? Doesn't mean the euphoria is "fake" or only a cause of less stress/less inhibition for everyone. Unless "true euphoria" is some term used scientifically to differentiate the mechanisms causing it, it seems more like technical word play with no real meaning, no offence just letting you know I believe many benzos cause very obvious(yet also arguably the euphoria from benzos seems to have a cap/ceiling effect, so if thats what you were getting at ) euphoria and haven't even tried the 3 you listed: flunitrazepam, temazepam, or lormetazepam.
also, the FDA's evaluation of side effects, especially euphoria, isn't some sort of end all be all.. It's the FDA.
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
@kokaino...You're right, I should have said most benzos, not all. Although I highly doubt that oxazepam, clorazepate, chlordiazepoxide, prazepam, would EVER be used for a stimulant crash, but you are right, technically they are benzodiazepines, but I stand by my statements.
@golden1, if you are saying you experience true euphoria from benzodiazepines, I'm not saying you don't feel what you feel. But I am willing to bet in your shoes, I would not call it euphoria. I never said "Benzodiazepines are not capable of causing euphoria and anyone who claims they do is lying". I am saying that by my definition of euphoria, benzos produce that feeling. This is my personal experience I am sharing, so when you say "they don't produce euphoria for YOU", I realize that.
In my experience, benzodiazepines can't create genuine euphoria, and suspect many confuse anxiolysis with euphoria.
@golden1, if you are saying you experience true euphoria from benzodiazepines, I'm not saying you don't feel what you feel. But I am willing to bet in your shoes, I would not call it euphoria. I never said "Benzodiazepines are not capable of causing euphoria and anyone who claims they do is lying". I am saying that by my definition of euphoria, benzos produce that feeling. This is my personal experience I am sharing, so when you say "they don't produce euphoria for YOU", I realize that.
In my experience, benzodiazepines can't create genuine euphoria, and suspect many confuse anxiolysis with euphoria.
^ That sounds like anxiolysis to me, not euphoria.
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LesFleursDuMal
Bluelighter
Thank you... Finally someone with a real bullshit-detector steps in. Bluelighters (this goes for me too), at times we can be quite snobbish about what we know and don't know. Because we're hiigh. "Psuedoeuphoria" my ass. Doesn't make any sense, it is like saying "I feel happy" or "I can almost feel good"
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
This is not the thread for this discussion, please remain on topic. I was merely stating my own experiences and theories with the aforementioned benzodiazepines, I never claimed that anyone was a liar, and the only thing that doesn't make sense is
.
LesFleursDuMal
Bluelighter
No one called you a liar dude. And what doesn't make sense to you about those two statements?
I gave you a link to temazepam's official FDA monograph and it lists euphoria as an official side effect. I'm sure the clinical pharmacologists which conducted the clinical trials can differentiate between "anxiolysis" and true "euphoria". Temazepam is the only benzodiazepine to have euphoria as an official side effect, however (so you're right in general). No other benzo that is marketed in the US had euphoria listed as a side effect. So depending on the benzo, "genuine euphoria" can be attained. I'm not saying your experience is invalid and you probably don't feel true euphoria from any benzo, including temazepam. However, many do experience a euphoric state from temazepam use and the FDA trials do back up the fact that temazepam does produce euphoria for some. They aren't confusing it with "anxiolysis". Now I might suspect that someone might confuse anxiolysis and sedation with euphoria for use of alprazolam or clonazepam or any other benzo because euphoria wasn't reported with their use at all. But this is not the case with temazepam (and I suspect some other hypnotics such as nimetazepam, flutoprazepam, lormetazepam, nitrazepam, flunitrazepam, etc). Hypnotics have significantly higher activity at the α1 subunit of the GABA(A) receptor compared to other benzodiazepines. Modulation of the α1 subunit is associated with reinforcing behavior among benzodiazepines.
Intense confidence and happiness is not anxiolysis, it is euphoria. The definition of "euphoria" is an intense sense of well-being. This translates into happiness, confidence (which is an elated sense of being), sociability, and feelings of connection to others. Anxiolysis is disinhibition (you're confusing "disinhibition" with "confidence", which are totally different).
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Renz Envy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2010
- Messages
- 3,337
I believe any drug that produces euphoria also lowers inhibition.
Also, euphoria is a side effect. All side effects are dose dependent and user dependent.
The reason one may believe euphoria is not a side effect of benzodiazepine use is because benzos do not have a very direct effect on dopamine. They do reduce glutamate, which effects dopamine. Depending on the user, this can be a positive experience or a dull one.
Arguing with words like "happiness" "confidence" are subjective to the user.
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
Indeed.
I was only trying to share my own experiences on the subject, obviously no shitty benzodiazepine can produce euphoria for me since I'm used to the rush of oxymorphone and hydromorphone, etc.
But if you haven't experienced that kind of euphoria, then maybe your definitions for euphoria are of a slightly lower standard, understandably so.
I was only trying to share my own experiences on the subject, obviously no shitty benzodiazepine can produce euphoria for me since I'm used to the rush of oxymorphone and hydromorphone, etc.
But if you haven't experienced that kind of euphoria, then maybe your definitions for euphoria are of a slightly lower standard, understandably so.
The words may be "subjective", but that is the definition of euphoria. Euphoria is simply a state of intense well-being and that usually translates to happiness, confidence, increased sociability, and/or feelings of connection to others.
If euphoria cannot be described in words then even morphines or methamphetamines feelings of well-being are subjective. We know that isn't true - they produce true euphoria, so there is a clear definition of what euphoria is.
That isn't true either. I've experienced intense feelings of euphoria from all sorts of drugs including morphine/heroin, hydromorphone, meperidine/pethidine, oxycodone, hydrocodone, MDMA, cocaine, methamphetamine, dextroamphetamine, secobarbital, and various other drugs. I've been using drugs for over 13 years now. I started using opiates at the age of 15 back in 1999.
I haven't experienced oxymorphone, but according to a book I have titled The American Medical Association: Guide to Prescription and Over-the-Counter Drugs published by Random House (1988 ), oxymorphone produces less constipation, histamine-related effects, euphoria, and sedation than morphine does. So it's not like I'm missing much.
For the record, you said,
then I ask what the difference is and I get this,
First off, I never claimed that you said that and I stated it was my own experience in my post, you didn't.. Second, you have yet to answer the question that I actually asked.
So, my takeaway is that you said "no benzos produce true euphoria" because they produce less euphoria than other drugs.
So, really what you meant to say is "no benzos produce the amount of euphoria of an opiate rush for me"
and "true euphoria" apparently simply means "very strong euphoria," where "psuedoeuphoria" refers to any euphoria caused by benzos...? ya?
What makes some effects of chemicals side effects? as opposed to a normal effects?
Sounds subjective to me..
Also, "All"?
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tricomb
Bluelight Crew
What I meant was exactly what I said:
If you get euphoria off benzodiazepines, that's great for you, I never said you aren't feeling what you're feeling.
I stated my subjective opinion, and y'all didn't like it. That's fine with me, life goes on. I was not trying to say that benzodiazepines can't produce true euphoria because other drugs do, and do it better. My subjective opinion: I believe that the best a benzodiazepine can produce, is "pseudoeuphoria". There is no set definition of euphoria, as it is a purely subjective experience. I hope we can at least agree on that.
If you get euphoria off benzodiazepines, that's great for you, I never said you aren't feeling what you're feeling.
I stated my subjective opinion, and y'all didn't like it. That's fine with me, life goes on. I was not trying to say that benzodiazepines can't produce true euphoria because other drugs do, and do it better. My subjective opinion: I believe that the best a benzodiazepine can produce, is "pseudoeuphoria". There is no set definition of euphoria, as it is a purely subjective experience. I hope we can at least agree on that.
What exactly is pseudoeuphoria? You are either euphoric or you aren't. Like I already mentioned, euphoria is mentioned by the FDA as an "official" side effect of temazepam use. The doctors that did the analysis for temazepam's FDA monograph didn't call it "pseudoeuphoria". This means that benzodiazepines can produce euphoria, or at least temazepam can.
stating a subjective opinion, where everything in the post is stated in a factual manner? you must see how that doesn't appear so from my perspective..
I was just asking what your reasoning for using the terms "true euphoria" and "pseudoeuphoria" on all benzos and how they were different, but it doesn't matter now as you've now made it clear it was purely a subjective opinion despite the wording.
I can agree euphoria is subjective, its why I asked the questions about your statement
How do you, personally, subjectively separate drugs into pseudo and true euphoria? What other drugs would you say give pseudo euphoria and not true euphoria? As I understand theyre just personal constructs, I'm just curious now how you use them..
on topic, I'd say many benzos accomplish the job just as good as others. Phenazapam works, just dont use it often and measure using liquid measurement. Xanax works rather good. Clonazepam works, but can end up giving me more energy/drive to be awake rather than sleep. It's basically all covered, but I thought I'd put my input in on 3 common benzos.
pbuilder
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 2,118
Y'all obviously AREN'T smoking enough crack if you think benzo's provide euphoria. Sure if your definition of euphoria is feeling your balls tickle in your shorts from the wind i guess you could consider benzo's to be mildly, and i say that with emphasis, ever so mildly, euphoric. But once you have been cushioned by the warm clouds of high dose opiates, or done a ball of good quality cocaine to yourself in a night, you will look at benzo's as that dull boring fuck of a drug that provides no pleasure what so ever, but rather just makes you dull and feeling nothing. Sure they may take away your anxiety, but simply taking away a symptom, doesn't make a drug euphoric.
Oh fuck this ibuprofen just took away my headache, this shit is so euphoric!
Oh fuck this ibuprofen just took away my headache, this shit is so euphoric!
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
long version: may or may not come.
short version: pseudoeuphoria = the anxiolysis, AKA the benzodiazepine doing it's job. For example, like pbuilder said:
It's very hard to put a textual definition to what I feel euphoria is. But as an example, oxymorphone (kokaino, if you haven't tried it then I can understand why you think you aren't missing much) produces undeniable euphoria. MDMA creates true euphoria.
short version: pseudoeuphoria = the anxiolysis, AKA the benzodiazepine doing it's job. For example, like pbuilder said:
It's very hard to put a textual definition to what I feel euphoria is. But as an example, oxymorphone (kokaino, if you haven't tried it then I can understand why you think you aren't missing much) produces undeniable euphoria. MDMA creates true euphoria.