Morphine Sulfate ER taper vs Bupe taper

[firahs75]

Hello all,

I have been on bupe for quite awhile (3 years) and just can't seem to shake it. I always get to a threshold where I cannot taper to a lower dose without feeling seriously fucked up. Now, I do take holidays and go on H binges for a week or two and then re-induct. Sometimes I can taper down to 1mg a day of bupe, sometimes the threshold is .75mg. It varies, but I have never been able to get below .75mg a day even when reducing by 10% per week. So, when I get totally fed up with bupe, I usually end up jumping off at 1mg per day or so and try to ride it out (sometimes aided by Kratom), but it just never ends. For me the worst thing by far is the fatigue/lethargy and lack of motivation that lasts months.

It was recently suggested to me that I should try maintaining and then tapering with Morphine Sulfate, that Morphine is a pretty smooth and easy taper and it has the extra advantage of eliminating cravings for H (since H is a morphine pro-drug). If I go this route I will not take anymore H holidays as I want to be free of physical addiction to opies. Hermann Goerring (Hitler's Reich Chancellor and the head of the Luftwaffe), a lifelong morphine addict, was smoothly and successfully tapered of morphine by the allies while at prison in Nuremberg.

Would morphine be easier to taper than bupe? Could I actually do a long-term taper to down to nothing (unlike bupe where I always hit a "wall" sometimes 2mg 1mg, .5 mg etc). Also, since morphine has a shorter half-life, I am assuming any discomfort would not last anywhere near as long as bupe. What would be the best morphine formulation for a taper? I was recommended the Morphine ER spansules that can be crushed, but I have never seen or heard of that in the USA, only MS contin which is a whole pill with wax matrix. Your thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated.

 

[firahs75]

Can anyone offer any insight?

 

[firahs75]

Wow, is there really no one who can comment? How about just giving some insight on the pros and cons of a Morphine taper? I hear it is one of the best (easiest) opiates to taper from.

 

[twotoomany]

Sure. If you have the self control. The reason people don't taper on their DOC is because they lack the self control due to addiction. If you can pull off a morphine taper it'll be better than a quick bupe taper but it'll be tough to pull off.

 

[paranoid android]

I have been on opiates for chronic pain (and also pleasure ) for about 7 or 8 years now and morphine has been my main opiate with dilaudid being second i guess. Morphine sustained release is excellent for tapering off opiates because you don't get the sudden highs and lows that you get with instant release opiates and morphine even in instant release form lasts a fairly long time. I think you can get the morphine XR (extended release) pills in the US as well which are the 24 hour release ones and those might be even better to taper with then the 12 hour release ones.

I have never been on bupe before but i have been on codeine, Demerol, oxycodone, morphine, hydromorphone and fentanyl for chronic and acute pain. Out of those i have been physically addicted to oxy, morphine, dilaudid and fentanyl. Fentanyl works the best for me with virtually no side effects and no euphoria either but the patches cost a fortune and arent covered under my insurance so i'm stuck with morphine. But morphine does work very well for my chronic pain

The generic MScontins and M-Esslons (i don't know if you guys have the Esslons in the US but in Canada they are sustained release morphine pills that come in capsules and the time release is in the beads in them) come in very adjustable doses so it's pretty easy to drop your dose fairly slowly without feeling too much in the way of withdrawals. Both the contins and Esslons come in 15, 30, 60, 100 and 200mg pills so it's pretty easy to taper with those doses. The capsules may be a better option then the contins because you could taper more slowly by emptying out some of the beads and doing it that way. The only other brand of morphine SR i know are the Kadian capsules which are the same as the M-Esslons except they have shitty waxy beads in them but as you'd be taking them orally to taper off that wouldn't matter so much to you. Those come in 10, 20, 50 and 100mg capsules. They aren't to popular anymore so i doubt you'll get those. There are a few morphine XR (24 hour release) morphine pills on the US market according to rxlist.com such as Avinza but they don't seem to be too common and most likely cost a fortune.

The pro's of a morphine taper over a bupe one is that it may stop your cravings more, you feel pretty good but you won't be high if you don't abuse it and the withdrawals from morphine don't last nearly as long as the withdrawals from bupe from what I've heard. The cons would be that people usually find morphine to be more euphoric then bupe ( i have never tried bupe so i'm just going by what people have told me) thus you are more likely to abuse it. Also morphine may cause more constipation then buprenorphine but that can be managed by drinking more water and upping your fiber intake.

I don't know why morphine is not used more often as a maintenance drug as it is alot easier to withdraw from then methadone and addicts tend to like morphine more then methadone or buprenorphine so theoretically you would get less people using Heroin or whatever to get high on top of their methadone or bupe. I guess it's just the stupid stigma behind morphine.

 

[firahs75]

I have been on opiates for chronic pain (and also pleasure ) for about 7 or 8 years now and morphine has been my main opiate with dilaudid being second i guess. Morphine sustained release is excellent for tapering off opiates because you don't get the sudden highs and lows that you get with instant release opiates and morphine even in instant release form lasts a fairly long time. I think you can get the morphine XR (extended release) pills in the US as well which are the 24 hour release ones and those might be even better to taper with then the 12 hour release ones.

I have never been on bupe before but i have been on codeine, Demerol, oxycodone, morphine, hydromorphone and fentanyl for chronic and acute pain. Out of those i have been physically addicted to oxy, morphine, dilaudid and fentanyl. Fentanyl works the best for me with virtually no side effects and no euphoria either but the patches cost a fortune and arent covered under my insurance so i'm stuck with morphine. But morphine does work very well for my chronic pain

The generic MScontins and M-Esslons (i don't know if you guys have the Esslons in the US but in Canada they are sustained release morphine pills that come in capsules and the time release is in the beads in them) come in very adjustable doses so it's pretty easy to drop your dose fairly slowly without feeling too much in the way of withdrawals. Both the contins and Esslons come in 15, 30, 60, 100 and 200mg pills so it's pretty easy to taper with those doses. The capsules may be a better option then the contins because you could taper more slowly by emptying out some of the beads and doing it that way. The only other brand of morphine SR i know are the Kadian capsules which are the same as the M-Esslons except they have shitty waxy beads in them but as you'd be taking them orally to taper off that wouldn't matter so much to you. Those come in 10, 20, 50 and 100mg capsules. They aren't to popular anymore so i doubt you'll get those. There are a few morphine XR (24 hour release) morphine pills on the US market according to rxlist.com such as Avinza but they don't seem to be too common and most likely cost a fortune.

The pro's of a morphine taper over a bupe one is that it may stop your cravings more, you feel pretty good but you won't be high if you don't abuse it and the withdrawals from morphine don't last nearly as long as the withdrawals from bupe from what I've heard. The cons would be that people usually find morphine to be more euphoric then bupe ( i have never tried bupe so i'm just going by what people have told me) thus you are more likely to abuse it. Also morphine may cause more constipation then buprenorphine but that can be managed by drinking more water and upping your fiber intake.

I don't know why morphine is not used more often as a maintenance drug as it is alot easier to withdraw from then methadone and addicts tend to like morphine more then methadone or buprenorphine so theoretically you would get less people using Heroin or whatever to get high on top of their methadone or bupe. I guess it's just the stupid stigma behind morphine.

Thanks! This is the info I was looking for. Bupe is just unbelievable. You get to a point where you can't go any lower and the withdrawals last forever and ever.

 

[firahs75]

One more question, do you think the instant release morphine would be easier to taper than extended release? It seems that it would just be a little easier to measure your dosages by using IR.

 

[paranoid android]

One more question, do you think the instant release morphine would be easier to taper than extended release? It seems that it would just be a little easier to measure your dosages by using IR.

Not in my experience it's not cause you end up using more IR's cause you get the highs and lows you don't get with the SR's and it doesn't hold you for nearly as long. You can just get the M-Eslon or Kadian capsules and empty out the beads and taper off real slow that way if you can get them that is. If not you can still taper pretty good with the contins.

 

[opiatekrzy]

I was hooked on morphine sulphate ER , and IR pills, I was eating 12 pills a day to avoid suboxone withdrawl, AS EACH DAY PASSSED, the morphines effects starting to be lessened, I was getting sicker quicker, the buzz or relief didn't last as long, and this was at the same dose everyday, so I imagine using less to taper would make me feel worse, since my body is used to 12 a day and even with that I was developing tolerance and withdrawl problems. I would use bupe to taper by FAR, its amazing how only 2mg of bupe will kill all physical WD even with a hardcore morphine/opiate habit, take 4mg in the AM, 2mg as NEEDED in the afternoon, and 4mg in the evening, and do this for 4 days and stop, during the 4 days of using bupe, it is masking the morphine withdrawl preventing u from suffering the withdrawl, and at the same time them 4 days is the most intense of acute opiate withdrawl u will be avoiding, after day 4, u will only be going thru a mild mild WD from bupe, which wont last very long..thats if u do the method above I explaind (this is what the hospital detox does) I think tapering with the actual opiate that's ur problem is more painful, more risks, and outright a relapse waiting 2 happen, use a long acting opioid like methadone or bupe for acute WD so u can avoid the intense WD from morphine, and just have to go thru the mild WD from the bupe..

 

[opiatekrzy]

^sry to bump, also I feel morphine sulphate ER is very long acting and oddly it's sustained release mechanism built in the pill really effects you for along time, at one point, the next day without morphine, I wasn't in Withdrawl, whether its the half life, or the time release...and morphime sulphate always is in my urine for atleast 3 weeks, when heroin is in my urine for a few days (which confuses me-heroin is metabolized into morphine the second you consume it) so why is morphine sulphate in my urine longer, is the "sulphate" form any reason as to why it sticks in ur body abnormally long? like I said after weeks of taking morphine ER, same dose everyday, I began to go into withdrawl sooner then usual, the effects wore off rather quickly then they used to, and I became very uncomfortable, I couldn't see myself not relapsing at a higher dose if I kept trying to keep taking the same dose I been steadily taking for weeks, so decreasing/tapering to me sounds like a painful pain the ass way to go, I would just use methadone or bupe for 5 days to mask intense WD, I think morphine WD isn't as quick as ppl think