Misc More stimulating than usual - could it be a rising tolerance?

[percozakk]

Recently my usual kratom dose has been more stimulating than usual. I know at low doses it causes stimulation, however I take it to achieve the more sedative / opiate effects. I was wondering if this stimulation could be caused by an increase in tolerance, my normal dose now being closer to what a 'low dose' would have been before.
What are your thoughts on this?

I should also add that I have had a daily kratom habit for the last 12 months. And I can pretty well estimate my usual dose has increased 4 fold since then.

 

[Venrak]

When you consistently use the same dose, even if it is one which would normally elicit sedative/opiod effects, tolerance increases and the effects change. You will have to up your dose to achieve the sedation you desire.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

When you consistently use the same dose, even if it is one which would normally elicit sedative/opiod effects, tolerance increases and the effects change. You will have to up your dose to achieve the sedation you desire.

Pretty much sums it up. I've been using kratom for over a year now, and while I was only using it a couple times a week, I barely ever noticed a tolerance hike. 2, maybe 3 times a week would provide STRONG opioid effects, extremely euphoric and noddy, just lovely. Then, I started using every other day, and just as you said, my highs started to become less and less 'narcotic' and more 'uppy' for lack of better words. Now, I use kratom about 5 days out of the week, and my tolerance has skyrocketed. I barely get any narcotic effects from it at all anymore, I simply get a mild boost of motivation, anxiety relief, stimulation and endurance, but that's about it. I definitely should take an extended break and then start back up only using a couple times a week again. You should probably do the same.

One thing you could try is buying some Tagamet (cimetidine, an OTC antacid) and taking two (400mg) about an hour before dosing on kratom to potentiate the effects. I find this boosts the mental/euphoric effects big time, and I never dose on kratom without it. Many will tell you it's placebo, and I personally don't care if it is because it most certainly works for me, placebo or not.

Another thing to try is eating a nice size absorbent meal (like a Subway sandwich or a hamburger), and then dosing on a higher-than-usual dosage of kratom. I find that having your stomach full will help slow down the absorption of the kratom, thus alleviating most of the nausea that accompanies higher dosages and also extending the duration of effects. Of course, this doesn't really work if you use extracts. You'd need to use a plain crushed/powdered leaf for this to work right. Taking an extract on a full stomach might be a complete waste.

I hope it helps! Kratom is an incredible plant if treated with respect. It will also bite you in the ass if you don't.

 

[percozakk]

The strange thing is in the past I never had any effects whatsoever when taking low doses.

 

[percozakk]

The last 5 days i also added 2 new supplements to my daily multivitamin.
Magnesium Malate- 425 mg magnesium 2.5 grams malic acid. 1 tablet taken twice daily.
Piracetam- 800 mg 2 tablets taken 3 times daily .
Could these be interacting with the kratom?

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

You became more accustomed to the effects, therefore you are now able to detect and appreciate the subtle low-dose effects. I am the exact same way. I messed with kratom quite a few times, determined to catch a buzz, to no avail. It wasn't until I munched down about ~25g of it that I became so overwhelmed with effects and realized "Ohhh, ok, now I get it." Then, after I had an understanding of the effects, lower doses became more appealing. The best part of a kratom low dose is NO NAUSEA!!

The last 5 days i also added 2 new supplements to my daily multivitamin.
Magnesium Malate- 425 mg magnesium 2.5 grams malic acid. 1 tablet taken twice daily.
Piracetam- 800 mg 2 tablets taken 3 times daily .
Could these be interacting with the kratom?

Yes. Do you take your kratom before/after/same time as these sups?

If anything, I imagine they'd make the kratom stronger.

 

[attempt4]

Tolerance. I've been enjoying Kratom for several years and can confidently say that over time it became more and more stimulating. At the beginning it was a totally different animal, much more sedating, relaxing but over time instead of a post-work relaxing aid I begun to use it as a stimulant, for work in the early mornings - despite not changing my strains all that much in the early days (even a quality Bali was stimulating whereas before gave me a strong nod).

I would reduce your use drastically to no more than 2 times a week, if you want to revert back to the way it was, possibly once a week - I don't know, it's relative to your tolerance and how much you've used in total. Not much, anyway.

Magnesium potentiates Kratom btw. Piracetam could slightly reduce effects, judging by reports I've heard. IT may also do nothing at all to the high. BUt I would suggest these two chemicals playing no real role in the change of the intoxication for you. It simply sounds like the natural development of the Kakuam.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Tolerance. I've been enjoying Kratom for several years and can confidently say that over time it became more and more stimulating. At the beginning it was a totally different animal, much more sedating, relaxing but over time instead of a post-work relaxing aid I begun to use it as a stimulant, for work in the early mornings - despite not changing my strains all that much in the early days (even a quality Bali was stimulating whereas before gave me a strong nod).

I would reduce your use drastically to no more than 2 times a week, if you want to revert back to the way it was, possibly once a week - I don't know, it's relative to your tolerance and how much you've used in total. Not much, anyway.

Magnesium potentiates Kratom btw. Piracetam could slightly reduce effects, judging by reports I've heard. IT may also do nothing at all to the high. BUt I would suggest these two chemicals playing no real role in the change of the intoxication for you. It simply sounds like the natural development of the Kakuam.

Almost 1:1 my story. As a matter of fact, I won't take kratom if all I have to do is lay around. If I have some kind of obligation, like work, a night out, a party, physical labor, then hell yeah I'm dosing up! If it's a nothing kind of night, I'd much rather reach for the kava and cannabis.

 

[attempt4]

Almost 1:1 my story. As a matter of fact, I won't take kratom if all I have to do is lay around. If I have some kind of obligation, like work, a night out, a party, physical labor, then hell yeah I'm dosing up! If it's a nothing kind of night, I'd much rather reach for the kava and cannabis.

I wish I could say the same! I take it for energy in the morning, afternoon-pick-me-up, another afternoon pick me up and a night-time dose to make sitting doing fuck all seem interesting. I used to be a massive weed smoker but abusing that comes at a price...abusing Kratom doesn't have the same side effects for me. Though I do have a pretty hellish addiction and I cannot express how much I hate mornings like this where i'm waiting for the postie. Yesterday I ran out and was expecting the postie to deliver but nothing came and now i'm sitting here sweating buckets, depressed, eyes watering, dhorrible muscle aches, lethargy and actually burning with anxiety about whether its going to arrive today.

But yeah, for work it's absolutely amazing. I've barely gone a day's work in years without it! The only one at work with a smile on his face, happy to be there!

As for the OP, I would suggest reducing the frequency of use and upping the dose somewhat to recruit more of the sedating alkaloid's effects. 5-10g is stimulating. 12g+ is more on the relaxing side. My dose is between 10-12g. Used to be 18-20g for a night-time in front of the computer with incense lit and music on - blissful. I still enjoy it as much as I always did, but it never really struck me just how different it feels now until I read this thread. It used to be so, so different in effects. I would love the nod again!

 

[percozakk]

My normal dose when I started was between 4-12 grams of Bali or PC kratom taken in capsules . Now my dose is between 10-25 grams of Thai. I think I might slow down for awhile if I can. I'm also getting some green Malay in today. I haven't tried this strain before so I'm going to see how it goes.

 

[attempt4]

Green Malay, if it's from Luc (BikHuk), is one of the best strains around atm.

Lower your dose. Is that 25g of superfine powder or crushed leaf? There is no need to be ingesting that size doses. Get your tolerance down, get some more effective strains (I would question the quality of your Thai, regardless of tolerance, if you require up to 25g) and play around. Kratom's efficacy lies in mixing and matching and changing things up. It's not like, say Vodka where you take it and each time it's roughly the same. It's a very variable herb and therein lies room for altering the psychoactivity.

Also, stop wasting your Kratom in capsules and learn to toss and wash. It is by far the most potent method (though for some strains, tea inhibits certain indole antagonists and accentuates sedating effects, such as a good quality Borneo Red Vein [which is incorrectly marketed as Bali by many and the equivalent of] which could revert back to the sedation.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

One thing to keep in mind with kratom, is that it's got this weird 'less-is-more' attribute to it. I find that sometimes, I will (naturally) keep increasing my dosages because I'm chasing a stronger and stronger buzz. Then, when I get to a point where I'm just taking way too much, the next morning I will try to take half yes HALF of the normal dose. You may be very pleasantly surprised to notice that your kratom buzz is FAR stronger than you expected from a half dose and actually will come with little to none of the bad side effects that accompany high kratom doses, which in turn results in quite a euphoric high! Then, from that point forward, try to keep the doses lower and your tolerance will follow.

And a day off, just one simple day off will reset your tolerance significantly. Not completely, but if you're using ~10g every day for months, then take a day off, I bet that ~7-8g the following day will knock your socks off. I haven't taken a full week off in a while, but I can only imagine what that first buzz would be like the next week...

Also try switching up strains. They all have different effects and tolerance builds more slowly when switching strains.

Kratom is an amazing plant!!

 

[ErgicMergic]

^Agreed, I think more is more until 8-10g (buzz escalates with dosage), then above 10g less is more.

You can also try mixing strains in addition to alternating. A personal favorite is 2 parts Super Green Malay; 1 part Red Vein Borneo. The SGM gives nice, clean, long lasting stimulation, and is mildly relaxing, and the small amount of sedative RVB takes the edge off the stimulation.

 

[attempt4]

Absolutely - various indole alkaloids come into play at varying dosages and certain antagonists get to work at higher doses, actually deeming the intoxication ineffective at times. The best times I've ever had over the years have been with 8-9g.

The real connoisseurship comes into play, and the real fun begins when you mix and match the strains. I always compare this to a fine Whiskey or Wine tasting, where one notes subtle nuances of intoxication upon integrating new strains at varying doses and utilising the effects of x strain to counterbalance y strain's primary effect.

Kratom indeed is an amazing plant!

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

^Agreed, I think more is more until 8-10g (buzz escalates with dosage), then above 10g less is more.

You can also try mixing strains in addition to alternating. A personal favorite is 2 parts Super Green Malay; 1 part Red Vein Borneo. The SGM gives nice, clean, long lasting stimulation, and is mildly relaxing, and the small amount of sedative RVB takes the edge off the stimulation.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that, it severely varies from person to person and strain to strain. Also, it's not like after a certain dosage a switch is flipped and different things happen. It's gradual and depends on tolerance and body chemistry. As attempt4 said, it's really a connoisseur kind of thing, where you need to become very familiarized with all the different strains and all their different levels of effects. The best aromas come from mixing and matching strains to compliment one and other. I even know some folks who will buy a bit of every strain a vendor has to offer, and mixes them all together for a full-spectrum experience. I bet that's the way to go...

 

[RunRunRun]

Some types or strains are more downer-like and more sedating than others are more of an up feeling. It just may be a different type than you are used to.

 

[attempt4]

I even know some folks who will buy a bit of every strain a vendor has to offer, and mixes them all together for a full-spectrum experience. I bet that's the way to go...

You'd be surprised actually! I did this for a while, mixing 5 strains in 2g doses and other variations (often more strains in smaller amounts each), but came to the conclusion that it wasn't that great (for me, of course - Kratom is very personal as you will know - what works for some won't work for others).
I concluded that basically at such low amounts, none of the individual strains had the capacity to get to work properly and it seemed like "something" was lacking. I have since found that mixing 2 strains is the best, perhaps 3 depending on strains utilised. But when you go above that, it seems like none of them really kick in enough and there's something missing.

There's a very fine line between 'incredible' and ineffective' in the world of Kratom. Sometimes even 1g can make that call.

 

[percozakk]

So up getting 4 oz of Sumatra red vein in. Along with a 10g sample of bali red vein. This morning i took 15 grams of the sumatra and as i felt my buzz coming on i toss and washed 1 tablespoon of finely ground bali red, it was a ver pleasant experience for a few hours. I had qut taking bali because as my tolerance inceased in the past high doses of bali would give me a very disconnected, almost disassociated feeling in my head Very wobbly as well. Im glad this went so well this morning. For about the first 30 minutes it was stimulating, mild uplift, i was able to clean and whatnot. then for the next 2-3 hours it was a nice, opiate like buzz, similar to maybe 20-25 mg hydrocodone. I used to be a regular opiate user, mainly hydrocodone and oxycodone, have Iv'd in the past and had experience with dilaudid and a few others. Iwas able to used the kratom to get myself off of all that stuff about a year ago when i got arrested. I had mixed strains only a few times before with little success, but after today I plan on mixing strains in the future.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

You'd be surprised actually! I did this for a while, mixing 5 strains in 2g doses and other variations (often more strains in smaller amounts each), but came to the conclusion that it wasn't that great (for me, of course - Kratom is very personal as you will know - what works for some won't work for others).
I concluded that basically at such low amounts, none of the individual strains had the capacity to get to work properly and it seemed like "something" was lacking. I have since found that mixing 2 strains is the best, perhaps 3 depending on strains utilised. But when you go above that, it seems like none of them really kick in enough and there's something missing.

There's a very fine line between 'incredible' and ineffective' in the world of Kratom. Sometimes even 1g can make that call.

Truth!! That does make sense, and I've noticed that effect from mixing in the past. It just feels like not enough of each strain is there to get a good high going. I normally just give myself mostly bali, and then a tad of this and that on top. I think the real way to go is mix 3 parts of you favorite strain, 1 part of a contrasting strain, and then some extract to sort of put everything in high-octane mode!