Moore's Bush/Katrina Connection: Update- film: Katrina: The Wrath of Bush

[lostpunk5545]

I'm personally not the biggest fan of Moore as a person. Even in his books there are a few things that pissed me off.

But...

Although he does put a slant into his movies a lot of people here seem to be of the opinion that they are not factual. How did you come to this conclusion?

Because they sure as hell seem to be based on facts to me. If you think Moore is a lying scum bag, try pointing out some of his lies for proof. Because all I'm hearing is a lot of hot air.

 

[SheeshKeebab]

edit

 

[keystroke]

he brings information and education to people that otherwise would of been none the wiser about it at all.

regardless of what he says, it makes people think twice about the issues and probably investigate their ideas a bit more.


*edit*

to anyone that calls Moore a liar, he was willing to give anyone an extremely large amount of money, (50,000 dollars I think was written in TIME magazine) that could prove any of his facts to be a lie in his movies.

no one claimed any money.

 

[drEaMtiMe*@#]

i think he may as well make the movie (although as already witnessed with the release of fahrenheit 911 and bush's re-election it probably wont make any difference), but at the very least as others have said he gets people to question the system in which they live and that in itself is positive.

as for him being a liar. i disagree, i think he's got all of his facts straight (unfortunately for us, huh, as it's not very nice being faced with the immensity of evil and corruption in which we live, and which through our ignorance we play a part in). it's his preacher type stance that i have the biggest problem with because it's that aspect of his character which will automatically make many people standoffish in listening to what he has to say. not to mention that it’s also that which makes him an easy target for all those propaganda allegations that he's already been accused of. it's all very unfortunate really, cos i definitely think that he is a smart man who's on the right track.

 

[Tanuki_23]

Yea I would like to hear some information that he has supposedly skewed so much to the point of it being a lie. There has been about 40 comments of people just call him a lying wind-bag, but when some1 ask for hows he a liar, every1 shuts up . . .

Now if you want to get into the realm of propanganda, the fact of the matter is, everyone has their own personal opinions on matters, and everyone leans torward those opinions whether they know it or not. Everything, to some extent, is propaganada.

 

[AmorRoark]

I hear what you're saying AmorRoark, but...

If anyone who has watched Moore's stuff is stupid enough to believe it's wholly factual and presented in a non-biased way, then they'd be stupid enough to believe it regardless of whether it said documentary or independent film on the box. You can't fault him for the sheer retardness of the public.

I would agree with you except that all the Moore films I've seen (with the exception of BFC) was in a high school classroom setting. The teacher was as much of a bleeding heart liberal as Moore and presented the film as a documentary to the highly-impressionable 16 year old students. I'm guessing this is where most of my resentment for Moore stims from.

 

[dm3]

i hate teachers that do shit like that. they showed f911 in a biology class at penn state 8(

 

[AmorRoark]

Yea I would like to hear some information that he has supposedly skewed so much to the point of it being a lie. There has been about 40 comments of people just call him a lying wind-bag, but when some1 ask for hows he a liar, every1 shuts up . . .

Now if you want to get into the realm of propanganda, the fact of the matter is, everyone has their own personal opinions on matters, and everyone leans torward those opinions whether they know it or not. Everything, to some extent, is propaganada.

Interestingly, David Irving gave the same challenge to the historical public. He was also willing to give a monitary repremand for anyone who could prove his facts false. I'll remind you that David Irving is one of the most famous, and notable Holocaust deniers to date. With the exception of a few book reviews, his work went undiscredited for over 10 years, during which time he wrote 30 books. It was only after he sued Penguin Books for libel that the general public discovered the extent of his 'lies'. They couldn't blatently be called 'lies' because they were actually fabrications, mistranslations and scewed numbers. Sometimes things are a lot more complicated than simple 'true' and 'false'. So, Moore's challenge with TIME really holds very little water IMO.

 

[smotpoker]

michael moore is my HERO!!!!! He should be the leader of this country.

 

[alasdairm]

The teacher was as much of a bleeding heart liberal as Moore and presented the film as a documentary to the highly-impressionable 16 year old students.

in which case you should be upset with that teacher...

the fact is that no media is 100% objective. indeed if you accept that simply observing anything changes it, then nothing can ever be 100% objective and we just have a difference of opinion regarding degree.

so it's not a documentary - it contains some editorialising. michael moore editorialising - whatever next?

i can understand having some problem with the content but all this petty arguing over what to call the box it's in is a distaction. and that's bad for both sides of the debate.

alasdair

 

[onetwothreefour]

i don't particularly like or dislike michael moore and i believe he doesn't go about spreading his message in the best way. however, i think the message he's spreading is an important one and i wish people wouldn't just blow it off because of the source.

alasdair

exactly.

and even if he does choose pointedly controversial and polemic topics, so what? it doesn't mean they're not valid. and to those critics of this particular film: do you not admit that global warming was a massive reason berhind hurricane katrina's ferocity? gee, i wonder what the kyoto protocol and america's refusal to sign it (along with australia too, unfortunately) had to do with that.

 

[Banquo]

I think its telling how the trend as of late among conservatives has been to attack the messenger rather than the message. Instead of addressing Michael Moore's arguments, people attack his character. Instead of (recently indicted) House Maj. Leader Tom DeLay attacking the charges against him, he attacks the prosecutor's credibility.

Even more telling, and more relevant to the topic perhaps, is Michael Moore's popularity. Despite all of the smears and dismissals, Fahreheit 9/11 has gone on to become the most popular documentary in history. Somebody obviously must enjoy hearing his perspective. Even if his methods are flawed, the masses that flocked to the theater and bought the DVD are indicative of man who has touched a nerve, and it it would be irresponsible to ignore such a phenomenon.

At the same time, I feel sorry for anyone who uses movies like Fahrenheit 9/11 or Bowling for Coumbine as their sole source of news. It is analysis; it is secondary point of view. It would be like only reading editorials or only watching the Daily Show and skipping the entire front page of the newspaper. But now that there are niche news channels that are tailored to appeal to specific political tendencies, isn't it only fair that the other side have an outlet?

 

[Hypnotik1]

here we go...another film made by yet another fat idiot pundit... that people are judging even before seeing it.

Look, if anything make Bush's popular threshold drop the better. I wish all media, ALL.. from legit news stations, every newspaper, ever magazine, every television station, every sitcom, every commerical bashed bush 24 hours a day 7days a week until he went down in history as the biggest waste of flesh ever bestowed upon this earth.. and it still wouldn't be enough.

Amen....

Its funny how anti-Moore's think EVERYTHING he says is a lie....

I hate Bush w/ a passion but i dont think he is COMPLETELY evil or stupid...And i dont think ALL of his agenda's are self imposed either...

Fuck, I even agree w/ Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh on some things

My point is this:

i don't particularly like or dislike michael moore and i believe he doesn't go about spreading his message in the best way. however, i think the message he's spreading is an important one and i wish people wouldn't just blow it off because of the source.

alasdair

Just try to understand his basic points and premise...