• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio

Molecule idea

CH3CH2OH

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
84
I had an idea for a chemical today and I was wondering if it has ever been made and if so does it have any psychoactive effects. Do you predict any psychoactive effects if has not been studied? Sorry, I dont know what the IUPAC name would be, put here a picture of it (sorry if it is poorly drawn, I did not have that great a program to draw it).


showphoto.php


It is just a cocaine and methamphetamine sharing a phenyl ring with the groups para to each other on it. I dont really think it will have effects as if it did I think I would have read about it. I would guess that it is probably to big to bind properly.
 
Probably active; powerful opiates commonly(-ish) fulfill the morphine rule in two directions. I'm not familiar with anyone to ever make a similar sort of thing from a DARI.

Quite likely it'll have completely irrelevant activity, though, if it has DARI activity at all.
 
The mere fact that one is connected to the other would make sure that neither side of the molecule could fit into its respective active site. To fit into a protein, you must be able to link into the active site in three dimensions, I believe this would block binding.
 
Quite likely, yes. But then again, without actually trying it, who knows.

Would you have guessed that opiates could fit the morphine rule in either one or two directions and maintain or even gain potency.
 
Sure... if it's got the right things in the right places when reoriented!
I don't think this would be much good, bulky substituents on the cocaine phenyl ring are probably going to abolish activity, you want something nice and electronegative there like a halogen or psuedohalogen instead. Also, do without the ester link with the phenyl and tropane rings, better to have them directly linked for higher activity (though this will make it last a lot longer too) and probably lower cadiotoxicity (I believe this ester moiety is responsible for the local anaesthetic effect cocaine has, which causes the dysrhythmias and such that confers cardiotoxicity).
 
The phenyl 4-position in the phenyltropane analogues can accomodate quite bulky substituents and retain good activity, although the ester will make the molecule a bit longer and so bulk may not be so well tolerated here as if the phenyl and tropane rings were joined directly.

The real problem is going to be that amine group though, all the highly active phenyltropanes have quite lipophilic substituents at that position so I don't think an NH would work that well.
 
I dont want to sound mean, but I think it was a hypthetical linkage of one stimulant to another, without a proper look at binding. Like if you could attach a psilocybin molecule to a DMT molecule would you create a super Psychedelic.
 
Beenhead you are right, it was just a hypothetical linkage. Like I said in the first post, I did not really think it would be active for the reasons that people pointed out. The extra substituents on either side keep the molecule from binding properly to either cocaines or methamps bnding sites. I was really just wondering if it had ever been made or looked into, I did not expect it to be a 'super stimulant', I just thought that if it was active that it might have some somewhat novel effects.

SAR models are created from the molecules known to bind in that position (correct me if I am wrong here, but that is my understanding), so they do not necessarily predict everything and sometimes a unique molecule can fit into the receptor that does not appear like it should by the SAR data. Like the opioids others referred to in this thread.
 
Beenhead said:
The mere fact that one is connected to the other would make sure that neither side of the molecule could fit into its respective active site. To fit into a protein, you must be able to link into the active site in three dimensions, I believe this would block binding.
I would definitively disagree. Although sterical demand could disrupt affinity of the compound to its target (receptor, enzyme, whatever), this is not a general rule.
Rather the contrary is true. There are several examples known, where 2 molecules were succesfully combined to yield a more active congener. See e.g.:
Journal of Heterocyclic Chemistry 1983, 20(4), p.1031
"Synthesis and characterization of 5H-1,3-dioxolo[4,5-f]indoleethylamines."
The authors synthesized these compounds:

...and they retained activity. (no idea if full or just partially).

Beenhead said:
I dont want to sound mean, but I think it was a hypthetical linkage of one stimulant to another, without a proper look at binding. Like if you could attach a psilocybin molecule to a DMT molecule would you create a super Psychedelic.
Is the last sentence a question or a statement?
Because it could actually work. See here:

"Inhibition of serotonin 5-hydroxytryptamine2C receptor function through heterodimerization : Receptor dimers bind two molecules of ligand and one G-protein"
HERRICK-DAVIS Katharine ; GRINDE Ellinor ; HARRIGAN Timothy J. ; MAZURKIEWICZ Joseph E. ;
Abstract
Although dimerization appears to be a common property of G-protein-coupled receptors (GPCRs), it remains unclear whether a GPCR dimer binds one or two molecules of ligand and whether ligand binding results in activation of one or two G-proteins when measured using functional assays in intact living cells. Previously, we demonstrated that serotonin 5-hydroxytryptamine2C (5-HT2C) receptors form homodimers (Herrick-Davis, K., Grinde, E., and Mazurkiewicz, J. (2004) Biochemistry 43, 13963-13971). In the present study, an inactive 5-HT2C receptor was created and coexpressed with wild-type 5-HT2C receptors to determine whether dimerization regulates receptor function and to determine the ligand/dimer/G-protein stoichiometry in living cells. Mutagenesis of Ser138 to Arg (S138R) produced a 5-HT2C receptor incapable of binding ligand or stimulating inositol phosphate (IP) signaling. Confocal fluorescence imaging revealed plasma membrane expression of yellow fluorescent protein-tagged S138R receptors. Expression of wild-type 5-HT2C receptors in an S138R-expressing stable cell line had no effect on ligand binding to wild-type 5-HT2C receptors, but inhibited basal and 5-HT-stimulated IP signaling as well as constitutive and 5-HT-stimulated endocytosis of wild-type 5-HT2C receptors. Ml muscarinic receptor activation of IP production was normal in the S138R-expressing cells. Heterodimerization of S138R with wild-type 5-HT2C receptors was visualized in living cells using confocal fluorescence resonance energy transfer (FRET). FRET was dependent on the donor/acceptor ratio and independent of the receptor expression level. Therefore, inactive 5-HT2C receptors inhibit wild-type 5-HT2Creceptor function by forming nonfunctional heterodimers expressed on the plasma membrane. These results are consistent with a model in which one GPCR dimer binds two molecules of ligand and one G-protein and indicate that dimerization is essential for 5-HT receptor function.

The Journal of biological chemistry 2005, 280(48 ), p.40144

Both DMT and psilocine work mainly via GPCRs.

Just recently I have seen an example where an academic research group (Gmeiner, Uni Erlangen/Nuremberg, Germany) prepared bivalent dopamin ligands (2 times the same ligand, connected via long alkyl chains) and they showed a remarkable activity.

Another ref about GPCR-dimers as the active conformers: Life Science, 2003, 74, p.173.
Abstract

G protein-coupled receptors (GPCRs) form homo-oligomeric and hetero-oligomeric complexes. This understanding has prompted a re-evaluation of many aspects of GPCR biology, however the concept of receptor complexes has not been fully integrated into the current thinking about GPCR structure and function. Nevertheless, receptor oligomerization is a pivotal aspect of the structure and function of GPCRs that has been shown to have implications for receptor trafficking, signaling, and pharmacology and more intricate models for understanding the physiological roles of these receptors are emerging. Here, we summarize some of the advances made in understanding the structural basis and the functional roles of homo- and hetero- oligomerization in this important group of receptors. Although this discussion focuses primarily on the dopamine receptors, particularly the D2 dopamine receptor, and the opioid and serotonin receptors, we discuss the principles governing the oligomerization of all rhodopsin-like GPCRs and potentially of the entire superfamily of these receptors.

Peace! Murphy

Edit: Corrected only some typos...
 
Last edited:
mad_scientist said:
The phenyl 4-position in the phenyltropane analogues can accomodate quite bulky substituents and retain good activity, although the ester will make the molecule a bit longer and so bulk may not be so well tolerated here as if the phenyl and tropane rings were joined directly.

The real problem is going to be that amine group though, all the highly active phenyltropanes have quite lipophilic substituents at that position so I don't think an NH would work that well.
Now these are some true words!
I would agree: Sterical demand is OK but the polarity fucks it up.
 
CH3CH2OH said:
SAR models are created from the molecules known to bind in that position (correct me if I am wrong here, but that is my understanding) [1], so they do not necessarily predict everything and sometimes a unique molecule can fit into the receptor that does not appear like it should by the SAR data.[2] Like the opioids others referred to in this thread.
[1] Yes, correct. Other methods for SAR models include computer modeling and others, but I think nearly all start with binding- & activity-studies done with 'real' compounds.
[2]Indeed!
 
There's a thread at the dark side of the force, about "Molecular Hybrids - An approach to new active structures", including several full pdf-refs and some discussion of new ideas.
PM me if somebody's interested in the link.
 
I guess, but cocaine never leaves without her manolo's, do you really think that having meth attached to her hip will improve it?
 
Just more interested in the general idea of molecular hybrids like that. I read the thread on the 'dark side' and found it really fascinating, thanks for pointing it out Murphy.
 
I can't say if your idea will be active or not, but one of its metabolites, 4-CO2H-METH, doesn't look too biologically friendly.
 
Top